[Sandwich]

Winter riders- what are you wearing to stay warm? I have neoprene booties, wool socks, and my XC SPD shoes. My toes are cold after an hour. I didn't think these shoes were well-ventillated, but I can't stay warm. Ideas? I don't want to resort to toe warmers every time I ride, but I'd consider buying some 45nrths or whatever. Riding in 30-40*F, strong winds, usually on the road. I suppose I'll try my specialzied 2fos next time, as they do NOT ventilate well at all.

 

[canadmos]

Normally don't have any issues with cold feet in my clipless shoes, with good socks - down to 0c.

When its below that, usually that means its snowing out and winter, so I run flats and hiking boots on the fat bike.

 

[6thElement]

I have Lake MXZ304 wide and they don't do well enough for me at all below freezing. Maybe good for an hour or so as long as it's not below mid-20F's. I need something better too, but there isn't much without going to flats and boots or a massive pair of lined 45Nrth...

 

[Nick]

Hotronics or Scheels?

 

[Jm_]

IME, both of those are not even close to cutting it, at least not for my toes. Now you can do some ghetto stuff if your shoes are big enough, like put chem heaters on your toes, or put chem heaters under AND over your toes...but shoes get real tight real fast if you didn't buy them bigger.

IME, those kind of temps call for the Wolfhammers (or however the fuck they spell em). I have the Ragnarok's too, but those are not very insulated and easy to get into a cold situation IME, being a hard shoe that is patterned off an XC shoe that just has a neoprene cuff added to it. I got the Ragnaroks more for DHing in the summer, since they are more protective at the same time. Whatever you get, get at least 1 size bigger. I go even bigger than that. Then I put felt insoles in the wolfhammers that help a little. If you need to make em smaller, there's like infinite running insoles you can put in boots to do this...plus it insulates you further from the damn cleat/pedal heatsink. The layer system I use with the wolfgars means I wear an 10.5 to 11 and my boots are actually 14 and I wouldn't want them any smaller, cuz fuck compressing my toes.

Road riding your a battering your foot with relatively high speed wind and it's one of the few times you DON'T want the damn thing to breathe, cuz that's just going to evaporate water and cool it off. And your foot doesn't flex a lot either, so blood doesn't really move around much down there.

But yeah, 30-40s, I'm not F-ing around and going to the wolfhammers. IME, they kinda suck for anything below that, but in that temp range they are decent.

 

[Jm_]

IMO, the basic issues are:

Patterning off of shit road shoes that are thin and hard

Cleat close to your foot and sucks heat out

Trying to add insulation constricts your foot

Taking the leap of faith to get the damn shoes big enough. 2 sizes might be good enough, but the thing like I said above about giving yourself more cleat-to-foot space. In my wolfgars, remove the liners, and I've got some giant insoles in there that basically make my liners set up higher, giving me more space away from the cleat. Plus, you can buy more lofty liners too (Intuition Liners).

 

[Sandwich]

Damn, I thought I was being a weenis, but if you guys are cold in the same stuff then I have to think up a more substantial solution. I haven't tried my road shoes with the booties yet (they are usually pretty good) and I haven't tried my trail shoes. I guess I'll do some experimenting and see if I can get warm, and continue to shop for other shit.

I see some Ragnaroks on sale: https://www.treefortbikes.com/45NRTH-Ragnarok-MTN-Tall-Cycling-Boot but it looks like they're only good to like 25. I think that should be fine, but I don't want to go spendin' on something that does what I already have...

 

[canadmos]

Damn, ride that stuff in the 40's? Thats still shorts and regular socks weather.

 

[Jm_]

Yeah, the question is if you want to be comfortable and not be time-limited by the conditions, which seems dangerous to me as far as a way to ride. In that respect, it's cry and buy once, but it's so damn hard to do that without prior experience/knowledge of the products. That said, it's WAY better to go overkill here IMO and I should have done that myself far earlier.

 

[6thElement]

My circulation isn't great, tempted to try the Wolvhammers as an improvement on the Lake's as they seem to be the next step up.

 

[jonKranked]

I have Lake MXZ304 wide and they don't do well enough for me at all below freezing. Maybe good for an hour or so as long as it's not below mid-20F's. I need something better too, but there isn't much without going to flats and boots or a massive pair of lined 45Nrth...

i've got the 303s, i had to replace the stock insole with a better insulated one.

 

[Jozz]

11 years on my original Wolvehammers.
Good down to 0F. As I get older I seem to get cold feet sooner.

Have you looked into Lenz heated socks?

 

[Jm_]

My wolfgar setup (not really applicable) is interesting though IMO and fun to share. The thing is that it's very very similar to all the other people in the Iditarod and we are all using the same generation of Wolfgars with the same setup. I even had to go so far as to mark mine with some white lines so I could tell em apart and no one would take em by mistake at a checkpoint when they were drying out.

-Size 14 wolfgars for 11 feet.
-Superfeet insoles in the boot (not in the liner)
-Stock felt liner
-thin silk liner socks from REI
-Vab vapor barrier, although some claim that turkey bags work, I tried this and always end up with swishing liquid sweat that cools my feet over time, the Vabs don't do this and breath "just enough" while still functioning as a VB.
-Wiggy's Lamilite socks (high version) with a little pocket I sewed on top that I can drop heaters in, if needed. Extremely rare to need the heaters, but the process to drop em in is super slick with the little pocket, don't have to screw around with sticking em to something.
-snow gaiters, although not technically part of the shoe, I feel this gives a lot of lower-leg wind block while still allowing for some heat dissipation from your upper legs, helping to keep the lower blood flow warm.

With this, I'm pretty happy from about 30 degrees F to -30 and colder. Occasionally well in the -Fs I'll drop said chem warmer in the toes...but I can't remember the last time I did and that's more of a thing like when "starting out" from an outdoor bivy, when everything is cold-soaked.

And again, like 90% of peeps riding bikes in the ITI using the same setup or very slight various of...just have to be careful of what people say "works", everyone is different and the slight various in application can create big variances in how they work/warmth.

I want to be totally happy riding out in the cold...so I adjust my clothing for that. People seem to think you have to "be cold" if you are riding "in the cold". Nope.

 

[jonKranked]

I want to be totally happy riding out in the cold...so I adjust my clothing for that. People seem to think you have to "be cold" if you are riding "in the cold". Nope.

personally i find that if I dress and layer properly for a ride, i will only be "not comfortably warm" for the first few minutes. if i dress to be warm when i start, i'm sweating excessively within 10-15 minutes.

 

[6thElement]

11 years on my original Wolvehammers.
Good down to 0F. As I get older I seem to get cold feet sooner.

Have you looked into Lenz heated socks?

How was your sizing, wearing normal socks, thicker winter socks or seven layers of socks?

The size chart puts me on a 48, there is no 49 and I worry that a 50 would be flippers.

 

[jonKranked]

for anyone that's possibly interested - these are the insoles I use. they have a slight texture to them which i wasn't sure about at first, but I found that i kinda like it.

https://www.amazon.com/Safety-Works-CTFM-insoles-Infused/dp/B005ZUI7N2/ref=sr_1_7?crid=15THQMHD5Q7EH&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.hb5uIqY0kuvnYjvO0ITYoxDarxHE1kn-94NfGwDak7gb3PvSz8PGFKdhtruR7QxXkcJ4DBjJm4pM6aywBfVQC-MnT5U6tTlwyrRVm6SLKvAIRiMP_PMZcYMWRKUm9YlkMAJk-OG6vUZsvo9yIY_q-TUZpM6deNNoS7l4_92dI505IVYsRC3WSjZhYpm4z9IwZB-zNC154CO2omonYJz186kOtzVve-fqfVVQwZcjW9pc4g4LcEplZmHoTFqXKd4JRgtPHphFa_UN6gsrZmZq2Tc4oaoc25BOC4QK5pVuYzw.5PvrwcCzmGU34yGNOhf01KQOMu4ZRn-bWrcs3XPZnEw&dib_tag=se&keywords=insulated+insoles&qid=1734039356&sprefix=insulated+insol%2Caps%2C178&sr=8-7

 

[Jozz]

How was your sizing, wearing normal socks, thicker winter socks or seven layers of socks?

The size chart puts me on a 48, there is no 49 and I worry that a 50 would be flippers.

I'm usually a 44, went 45 for the boots. Perfect with my thickest socks. FYI, the model has changed twice since I got mine. Some say the first generation was the warmest.

 

[Toshi]

I use my Merrell hiking boots + flats + usual wool blend socks like always. and that works for me down to ~20F or so. but my commute is also 20-25 min.

 

[Jozz]

So, anyone ever used heated socks?

I'm usually multitasking my winters, with many activities, and boots/shoes. I like trailrunning on packed trails, but I only have summer shoes. So after 30-40 minutes I have to cut short. Seems the heated socks could be a good option?

 

[Jm_]

So, anyone ever used heated socks?

I'm usually multitasking my winters, with many activities, and boots/shoes. I like trailrunning on packed trails, but I only have summer shoes. So after 30-40 minutes I have to cut short. Seems the heated socks could be a good option?

I've used two kinds of heated insoles. One used a relatively thick insole with a remote, this was bad for a few reasons, one, it takes up a LOT of space in your shoes that you probably didn't account for, two, not that much heat, 3 you are always wondering if it worked right with the remote, etc. I do not recommend that one.

The other was the Hotronics S4. This did work pretty well IME. It's a little hokey how you have to stick the pads on the insole and the wires/cable, but you can get that part as a replacement too if you wear it out. All the wires and stuff for charging is kind of a pain. The batteries clip to the boots. IME, this did provide some good heat and would work long, like 4hrs at pretty high, no problem. 8hrs with them cooking at a lower setting.

Ultimately, I didn't want to be tied to electronics and charging up stuff and if someone is looking to "sprint" through a ride, like be out for an hour or less, I don't see any point to this stuff that's meant to extend the ride and ability.

I also do stuff like I stick my boots on the boot-drier BEFORE the ride to pre-heat them. If I'm driving to the trailhead, drive with them on and put my gloves under my butt to preheat those.

There's also stuff like the NEOS overshoes. Check that out.

 

[Toshi]

I run Hotronics insoles on my ski boots. I can also attest that they work.

 

[CBJ]

I use my Merrell hiking boots + flats + usual wool blend socks like always. and that works for me down to ~20F or so. but my commute is also 20-25 min.

Yes, who cares about clipping in during cold winter rides.

 

[Jozz]

Yes, who cares about clipping in during cold winter rides.

I do.

 

[CBJ]

I do.

There is always room for a statistical outlier.

 

[4xBoy]

Yesterday local shop had Wolfgar for $148.50

If your feet are cold in those, there really is no option.

 

[Sandwich]

Hmm, Ok. So interestingly my toes were way less cold on the way home than the way in yesterday. I wonder if this might be a circulation and not insulation issue. Anyways, my local bike shop-that-I-love-to-hate has the 45nrths in stock. Maybe I will try them on then buy online, because fuck that LBS.

 

[eric strt6]

You lose most of your heat from the head and neck. Body shuts blood flow to extremities to keep core and head warm. Wear a beanie and neck gaitor and your feet won't get so cold

 

[6thElement]

You lose most of your heat from the head and neck.

Incorrect. It's just proportional to exposed skin.

https://www.healthing.ca/wellness/is-it-true-that-you-lose-most-of-your-body-heat-from-your-head

Anyways, my local bike shop-that-I-love-to-hate has the 45nrths in stock.

Which are you going to try, the Wolvhammers?

 

[Sandwich]

Incorrect. It's just proportional to exposed skin.

https://www.healthing.ca/wellness/is-it-true-that-you-lose-most-of-your-body-heat-from-your-head

Which are you going to try, the Wolvhammers?

Ragnorak tall, maybe rag lo. As much as I hate this shop, I'm not a total douche so I might find my size and check out the tall boot and leave it at that.

I need to be able to maintain ankle flexibility- I think that's less important on a mountain bike but on the road I'm pedalling constantly and need to make sure whatever I end up with functions like a shoe, not a boot. If I can't find something that allows me to pedal comfortably, I guess I'll stop going out!

 

[6thElement]

I had something similar to those 20 years ago, I'm vaguely recalling "Answer Kashmir's". Basically an XC shoe with a neoprene cuff. Which I think it how @Jm_ described the Ragnorak's.

 

[Sandwich]

I had something similar to those 20 years ago, I'm vaguely recalling "Answer Kashmir's". Basically an XC shoe with a neoprene cuff. Which I think it how @Jm_ described the Ragnorak's.

I think that will work for my needs though. Down to deep sub freezing temps, the idea of commuting is better than the practice. For road, it's a little bit more doable but again, this may be an @Sandwich problem, and not a "shoes" problem, so even some very poorly ventillated SPDs might solve the issue.

 

[jonKranked]

Hmm, Ok. So interestingly my toes were way less cold on the way home than the way in yesterday. I wonder if this might be a circulation and not insulation issue. Anyways, my local bike shop-that-I-love-to-hate has the 45nrths in stock. Maybe I will try them on then buy online, because fuck that LBS.

as others have mentioned you will want to size up to accommodate socks, etc. how much will depend, but you also want to leave your toes some wiggle room. i personally find that helps circulation.

 

[Jm_]

I still have all that Hotronics S4 stuff. Probably not going to use it again.

 

[scrublover]

Ragnarok's for shorter/not freeze-fest/commute times, and Lake 303's for longer/colder. Up one size from my norm on both. I'd go 1.5-2 up next time on the Ragnaroks though.

Winter riding shoes are one of the best riding clothing things I've ever purchased (rather than continue to fuck about with oversized regular shoes, shoe covers, thicker socks, etc)

 

[chuffer]

Do thick shoe covers not work for you guys?

I have struggled with cold feet since I was in undergrad (SUNY Buffalo). Thick neoprene covers are the only things that keep my feet warm at any temp that I’ve ever ridden in. Typically with just “regular” shoes and socks…

 

[Jm_]

Not for me. First, they just get torn to hell, somehow boots don't get torn up, but the shoe covers sure as hell do. Then they just serve to constrict, they don't make your shoes more roomy. I tried several different ones on my lakes, they never worked for me. There's other issues too, like what goes on between the top of your shoe and your leggings? Stretchy leggings? Are they going to stretch over the shoe and not come off? Or tuck 'em in? Are your boots tall enough for that? Or pant leggings, again are they long enough to overlap? Will the loose stuff get caught in the bike? Using more dedicated winter boots and the systems that go with them gets around a lot of this IME.

There are some people up here that use these shoe covers with tennis shoes on the Iditarod trail and everywhere else it's cold...but they ain't your roadie-type shoe covers.

I mean, if the roadie shoe covers work for you and your toes stay warm, then continue doing what you do. No need to change it up.

 

[Sandwich]

Do thick shoe covers not work for you guys?

I have struggled with cold feet since I was in undergrad (SUNY Buffalo). Thick neoprene covers are the only things that keep my feet warm at any temp that I’ve ever ridden in. Typically with just “regular” shoes and socks…

No. That’s what I’m running now and there simply isn’t enough insulation for sub-freezing temps over an hour. One hour is OK but I was getting cold as time wore on. This is on the roadie at 15mph with a 4mph wind cutting through. They’re great at 35-45 but I need something more substantial below 35. I could probably get away with a poorly ventilated oversized SPD shoe with thick wool socks and those toe covers, but if I’m getting new shoes I’ll just get some dedicated winter shoes.

 

[4xBoy]

I might go get a pair.

45NRTH Ragnarok BOA Cycling Boot

Ragnarök BOA® boots are perfect for the hard-to-predict weather of late fall and early spring. Built to block cold and moisture, these lightweight cycling boots feature a 25ºF+ (-4ºC+) comfort...

www.freewheelbike.com

 

[Jm_]

I might go get a pair.

45NRTH Ragnarok BOA Cycling Boot

Ragnarök BOA® boots are perfect for the hard-to-predict weather of late fall and early spring. Built to block cold and moisture, these lightweight cycling boots feature a 25ºF+ (-4ºC+) comfort...

www.freewheelbike.com

Stated temp range is for fire-toes people and extremely optimistic otherwise IME, but can make a good shoulder season shoe. Cleat is close to foot so thats an issue. Get em big, put some insoles in em if you need to make em smaller

 

[Toshi]

that photo is confusing me

did you do a JCPenney photo studio style double exposure to get that translucent Superfeet insole visible