Quantcast

National Guard to shoot Mexicans on sight.

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
43,543
15,767
Portland, OR
Where are they pulling the troops from I wonder?

Bush to Call on Guard to Bolster Border

May 15, 1:35 PM (ET)

By NEDRA PICKLER

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush is sending thousands of National Guard troops to bolster patrols along the Mexican border, a move designed to win support for immigration reform from get-tough conservatives in his party.

Bush, in a speech to the nation Monday, is proposing to use the troops in a supportive role to the Border Patrol while it builds up its resources to more effectively secure the 2,000-mile line between the U.S. and Mexico, White House spokesman Tony Snow said.

Snow said the effort would use only "a very small percentage of the Guard," which numbers about 400,000 members around the country. White House officials say it would involve fewer than 8,000 Guardsmen.

In a signal of the high stakes on the issue, Bush was to make the announcement at 8 p.m. EDT, in a rare prime-time speech from the Oval Office. He planned to follow up the address with a visit Thursday to the border, in Yuma, Ariz., to further press his case.

The broadcast networks ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox and the cable networks Fox News Channel, CNN and MSNBC planned live coverage of the speech, set to run less than 20 minutes.

Though some Republicans defended Bush's plan, others on both sides of the aisle expressed concern about overextending a National Guard force that is already tied up in Iraq and must be at the ready for disaster relief.

"We've got National Guard members on their second, third and fourth tours in Iraq," said Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb. "We have stretched our military as thin as we have ever seen it in modern times. And what in the world are we talking about here, sending a National Guard that we may not have any capacity to send up to or down to protect borders? That's not their role."

Conservative Republican Sen. Jeff Sessions of Alabama said Bush's proposal could allay concerns of those who oppose Senate legislation that includes Bush's wish for temporary work permits for foreigners to enter the country and take low-paying jobs. But Sessions, who is among those opponents who want a harder line on illegal immigration, said stepped-up border enforcement "can't be a token effort."

"The president has got to look the American people in the eye and he's got to tell them from his heart that he actually means to have a legal immigration system, that he's prepared to ask the Congress for the resources he needs to make that happen," he said.

Under Bush's proposal, formed in consultation with border-state governors who command the National Guard, Border Patrol agents would maintain primary responsibility for physically guarding the border. National Guard soldiers will not perform law enforcement duties, but will help in such areas as construction, surveillance and transportation, Snow said.

Snow would not say how long it would take to beef up the Border Patrol to the point where the National Guard troops would no longer be needed - or how the operation would be funded. But he said Bush's proposal goes further in beefing up border enforcement than do competing immigrations bills in the House and Senate.

In his speech, Bush also will mention the need for immigrants to learn English and assimilate into American culture if they are to become citizens.

Mexican President Vicente Fox called Bush Sunday to express concern about what he called the possibility of a "militarized" border between the two nations.

Snow said Bush assured Fox that there is "no attempt to militarize the border." The president told Fox that any military support would be administrative and logistical and would come from the National Guard and not the Army, according to a news release from Fox's office.

Bush hopes adding the National Guard troops to make the border more secure will persuade congressional conservatives to approve a broader immigration bill that would include his primary objective - a guest worker program. That idea is favored by the business community, but many conservatives want a tougher approach on illegal immigrants.

"I think it's more about political opportunity than political cover," Snow said of Bush's plan.

About 100 National Guard troops are serving on the border to assist with counter-drug operations, heavy equipment support and other functions. Some lawmakers say an increase is unwise.

Hagel said the bill under debate in the Senate that he helped write would double the 12,000-strong Border Patrol force over the next five years. "That's the way to fix it, not further stretching the National Guard," he said on ABC's "This Week."

Sen. Joe Biden, D-Del., said there may be a need for troops to fill in while the Border Patrol is bolstered. But he did not seem confident that the National Guard could take on the extra duty.

But Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said lawmakers who doubt that the National Guard could take on border patrol duty are "whining" and "moaning."
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
43,543
15,767
Portland, OR
I just think it is a bad idea to take guys returning from a war zone and make them stand gate guard against Mexico. As if the "minute men" wern't bad enough to begin with.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
I dont think its a bad idea. In fact, I think the military should be more geared toward public service anyway. I saw firsthand, when I was in, about the HUGE waste of manpower that went on EVERY DAY.
Whole battalions sitting around doing nothing, could easily build MTB trails, homes for the poor, guard the border.

If I were president, that'd be the ONE change in the country I would make. I bet recruitment would go way up as well if the military served some good BESIDES killing all time, no?
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
43,543
15,767
Portland, OR
That is what the National Guard is supposd to do! But guard troop coming back from Iraq are no longer in the mind set of National service, is what I'm saying.

When I signed up for the guard, that is what I signed up for, state and national service, not overseas offensive force. But I saw first hand how much normal guard folks are after deployment.

Katrina support as much as it stunk there, was worth while. I also agree with recruiting and retention would be where it should be if it came down to stuff like boarder guard, natural disaster, riot control.
 

bigdrop05

Monkey
Mar 26, 2005
427
0
BurlyShirley said:
I dont think its a bad idea. In fact, I think the military should be more geared toward public service anyway. I saw firsthand, when I was in, about the HUGE waste of manpower that went on EVERY DAY.
Whole battalions sitting around doing nothing, could easily build MTB trails, homes for the poor, guard the border.

If I were president, that'd be the ONE change in the country I would make. I bet recruitment would go way up as well if the military served some good BESIDES killing all time, no?
If I were president,
Burley-
I'll vote for ya.:weee:

Is it me, or do ALL Mexican guy's gawk at your woman either girlfriend or wife 99% of the time :redhot: ..It pisses me off & one day i am going to snap.:bomb:
Hey, if they were illegals then................ ?
 

Ridemonkey

This is not an active account
Sep 18, 2002
4,108
1
Toronto, Canada
In his speech, Bush also will mention the need for immigrants to learn English and assimilate into American culture if they are to become citizens.
Isn't Spanish and official language in the states? I'd love to see someone here tell the French-speaking Canadians they have to learn English. :rolleyes:
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Ridemonkey said:
Isn't Spanish and official language in the states? I'd love to see someone here tell the French-speaking Canadians they have to learn English. :rolleyes:
There is no official language in the States afaik.
 

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
Ridemonkey said:
Isn't Spanish and official language in the states? I'd love to see someone here tell the French-speaking Canadians they have to learn English. :rolleyes:
Thought they tried. NOw the frenchies want there own country
 

mrbigisbudgood

Strangely intrigued by Echo
Oct 30, 2001
1,380
3
Charlotte, NC
bigdrop05 said:
If I were president,
Burley-
I'll vote for ya.:weee:

Is it me, or do ALL Mexican guy's gawk at your woman either girlfriend or wife 99% of the time :redhot: ..It pisses me off & one day i am going to snap.:bomb:
Hey, if they were illegals then................ ?
You got a problem with me looking at your girl? Do you feel threatened by a beaner with a leatherman? Do you feel your man points are going to decline or something?
 

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
Edit: I'm going to stop making racist comments because if I don't I'm going to have to leave.

Oh and BTW, I have a much larger penis than the guy who decided to moderate this post, not to mention a far bigger set of balls, and more riding skill in my pinky than he will ever have. So if your going to dish it to me make sure you give it to the 10 other racist posts in this thread alone.
 
Oct 8, 2005
668
0
Mexico
So if you or your kids were recruited into the army, how would you feel if they tell you to shoot anybody that wants to illegaly cross the border. Of course its not your call, but would anyone look at it as a job, duty or what???
Would you compare this Mexico-US thing to Iraq-US, i mean if some people think illegal immigrants should be shot in the US, maybe its 100% "legal" to shoot at US troops, workers... in Iraq
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
la_cleta said:
So if you or your kids were recruited into the army, how would you feel if they tell you to shoot anybody that wants to illegaly cross the border. Of course its not your call, but would anyone look at it as a job, duty or what???
Would you compare this Mexico-US thing to Iraq-US, i mean if some people think illegal immigrants should be shot in the US, maybe its 100% "legal" to shoot at US troops, workers... in Iraq
That's a real hypothetical. I dont think in today's world, that would really be an option, you know, without a militarized conflict of somekind.
 

MudGrrl

AAAAH! Monkeys stole my math!
Mar 4, 2004
3,123
0
Boston....outside of it....
According to AFI 31-207, I can only utilize deadly force if I perceive the subjects actions to result in Assaultive (serious bodily harm/ death) actions.



So, some people running across the border and not posing any serious bodily harm to others are not subject to being shot.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
43,543
15,767
Portland, OR
MudGrrl said:
According to AFI 31-207, I can only utilize deadly force if I perceive the subjects actions to result in Assaultive (serious bodily harm/ death) actions.



So, some people running across the border and not posing any serious bodily harm to others are not subject to being shot.
We carried live rounds in New Orleans, but we were not authorized to load because of a similar regulation. We had 3 magazines, 2 loaded and one empty. On night manuvers we were instructed to load the empty magazine (after first being verified empty by a buddy), otherwise the rifle had nothing in it, not even the empty magazine.

I would guess the boarder would be much of the same. An empty mag, a loaded mag, and nothing in the rifle.
 

ummbikes

Don't mess with the Santas
Apr 16, 2002
1,794
0
Napavine, Warshington
mrbigisbudgood said:
You got a problem with me looking at your girl? Do you feel threatened by a beaner with a leatherman? Do you feel your man points are going to decline or something?
He just doesn't realize All the women want us latino guys. :) :oink:
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
The Amish said:
Edit: I'm going to stop making racist comments because if I don't I'm going to have to leave.

Oh and BTW, I have the worlds smallest penis. It has been verfied by an independent laboratory test.
sounds like you got edited by the mods... but I thought you were personal friends with them?


PS: this whole illegals issue is just a smoke-screen by the POTUS and I wish everyone would stop talking about it and talk about more important issues.
 

LukeD

Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
751
2
Massachusetts
jimmydean said:
We carried live rounds in New Orleans, but we were not authorized to load because of a similar regulation. We had 3 magazines, 2 loaded and one empty. On night manuvers we were instructed to load the empty magazine (after first being verified empty by a buddy), otherwise the rifle had nothing in it, not even the empty magazine.

I would guess the boarder would be much of the same. An empty mag, a loaded mag, and nothing in the rifle.
a guy a grew up with is border patrol down there on the CA/mexico line...i hear from him everyday. what is said in the news and by politicians about the border is usually wrong. the main problem with the border right now is not illegals coming into the country it's drugs and has been drugs for a very very long time. the drug cartels have bountys on the border patrol agents' heads and the agents do get shot at and r put in harms way on a daily basis. the agents do carry live rounds and r locked and loaded all the time. one major concern with them is putting up a wall...the agents don't want a wall because it puts them at more of a vulnerable position to get ambused...but these talking head politicians think it's the only way to solve the problem. in terms of the mexican president saying he doesn't want a militarized border...why then is his army involved in the drug traffic on the border frequently flying choppers over and making quick drops? mexicans coming in for jobs aren't exactly the biggest problem...more than half of them that come in r sent over the border in large groups as a diversion so the cartels can sneak in undetected. everyone knows the drug traffic is a problem down there but it's much more of a problem than some illegals coming in to get a job...especially when the mexican government is involved...who knows maybe the US government is involved too. but the bottom line is...i can definitely see the need for national guard down there. they will only be driving busses, doing survailence and some paper work...but that frees up a lot of space for the agents to take care of business and to regroup. in my opinion...whenever anyone serving this country, especially while being in this country, is being shot at or attacked by moltov cocktails (which get thrown over the border daily)...that is an issue. i just wish the media would get it right, but of course they never will.
just my 2cents.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,897
Fort of Rio Grande
bigdrop05 said:
Is it me, or do ALL Mexican guy's gawk at your woman either girlfriend or wife 99% of the time :redhot: ..It pisses me off & one day i am going to snap.:bomb:
Hey, if they were illegals then................ ?
Nothing says "I need a penis pump" better than what you just wrote. :rofl: