Nats wouldnt be the only UCI paying race. As i said, instead of a GRT or Grand Prix make one UCI paying national series
And instead of ESC and GES combine them. Make lots of races, so riders have a better oppurtunity to gain points and race
National Series for the USA
- Thread starter downhill mike
- Start date
And instead of ESC and GES combine them. Make lots of races, so riders have a better oppurtunity to gain points and race
Well giving northeast racers a variety of venues to race all season long with options for just racing state champs or the whole series and all the money stays in the series and goes back to racers...What more are you expecting the ESC to Sacrafice?
GES is a different Model fewer venues but still good racing and larger geographic area there is no reason they need to combine they serve their customers well and they are loyal. Nobody hates anybody!
Cream always rises to the top talented racers always stand out and move on while the hacks stay local and bitch and moan on forums
like i said, having a ton of races doesnt "make" a national series or help anyone
Take it easy, honey. I'm not dissing any regional racing series and have no knowledge of how your game works out there. I'm talking about the national stage. Sounds like you're psyched on what you have going on and that's a good thing.
FWIW, it's been clear for half a decade at least that I'm way past my prime. I'm not speaking for my own racing aspirations, only those who have the misfortune of coming up in this era. Nice dis' though. Haha
What is a "UCI paying national series" do you know what is required to inscribe a race with the UCI
OK Fair enough we have our east coast series going on they are local and we know it and don't pretend they are anything bigger love to get out and be able to race. I know these guys work hard to make it what is.
Maybe he was referring to the time you tried to hack your ear off at Mt. Snow? You know, before you stayed local and built that little bike park with the other local hacks.
Okay, here it goes. Listen up monkeys and promoters.
3 race series, 3 different regions. Mountain states, west coast, and east coast. 5 races for each. UCI points for each series. Keep the series short so people can make reasonable attempts to hit every race in a series. Only try to not over lap with WC races. Racers can only get points for 1 race series. Yes one race series would probably rise to the top because pro trade teams would probably focus on only one series, but who cares, can't be perfect.
West Coast
1. Northstar
2. Mammoth
3. Port Angles
4. Something in far north CA or Oregon, Mt Shasta? Mt. Hood?
5. Can be where ever. Maybe a second round in Mammoth/Northstar, or Big Bear (we can dream), or somewhere else in Oregon Seattle if resorts there can start to get their sh*t together. Try to keep the races as centrally located as possible with a slight bias south due to the strong racing heritage and history of WC caliber racers coming out of Socal. And for god's sake use the gnarly trails at the resorts. None of this Gypsy crap at Northstar. Dogbone or Karpiel only. And only Chainsmoke or Bullet at Mammoth.
Mountain States
Ya I really don't know crap about mountain states riding. Maybe just copy the MSC. Sol Vista, Angel Fire for sure, beyond that, I have no idea. Schweitzer?
East Coast
1. Mt Snow. Classic, no brainer, run the old school course through the yard sale section. Need at least one extra challenging trail in this series
2. Plattekill (no brainer)
3. Whiteface (no brainer). Run the 5k course.
4. and 5. There are a lot of East Coast resorts. Rotate the other 2 between places like Beech, Snowshoe, Sugarbush, Attitash, Highland, whatever.
National Champs:
Maybe try to run it in the mountain states if possible? Those are just barely drive able for the west coast people. And if you hold it on the East Coast both west and MS people have to drive, so ya, east people get screwed, but someone has to.
And none of this short, non-technical course bullsh*t like last year. Should be highly technical, physically challenging, and have monster doubles like Sol Vista had.
FLAME AWAY!
3 race series, 3 different regions. Mountain states, west coast, and east coast. 5 races for each. UCI points for each series. Keep the series short so people can make reasonable attempts to hit every race in a series. Only try to not over lap with WC races. Racers can only get points for 1 race series. Yes one race series would probably rise to the top because pro trade teams would probably focus on only one series, but who cares, can't be perfect.
West Coast
1. Northstar
2. Mammoth
3. Port Angles
4. Something in far north CA or Oregon, Mt Shasta? Mt. Hood?
5. Can be where ever. Maybe a second round in Mammoth/Northstar, or Big Bear (we can dream), or somewhere else in Oregon Seattle if resorts there can start to get their sh*t together. Try to keep the races as centrally located as possible with a slight bias south due to the strong racing heritage and history of WC caliber racers coming out of Socal. And for god's sake use the gnarly trails at the resorts. None of this Gypsy crap at Northstar. Dogbone or Karpiel only. And only Chainsmoke or Bullet at Mammoth.
Mountain States
Ya I really don't know crap about mountain states riding. Maybe just copy the MSC. Sol Vista, Angel Fire for sure, beyond that, I have no idea. Schweitzer?
East Coast
1. Mt Snow. Classic, no brainer, run the old school course through the yard sale section. Need at least one extra challenging trail in this series
2. Plattekill (no brainer)
3. Whiteface (no brainer). Run the 5k course.
4. and 5. There are a lot of East Coast resorts. Rotate the other 2 between places like Beech, Snowshoe, Sugarbush, Attitash, Highland, whatever.
National Champs:
Maybe try to run it in the mountain states if possible? Those are just barely drive able for the west coast people. And if you hold it on the East Coast both west and MS people have to drive, so ya, east people get screwed, but someone has to.
And none of this short, non-technical course bullsh*t like last year. Should be highly technical, physically challenging, and have monster doubles like Sol Vista had.
FLAME AWAY!
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That didn't hurt nearly as bad as the time I shattered my collarbone at the MSA world cup in '03 and had to hack my way home to Colorado for surgery the next day. It was embarrassing though. Ahhhh, love the East Coast. Despite my numerous misadventures out that way.
The word is more like We, as in MADRA... You were not the only one leading the efforts up back then. Credit goes out to Jeremy R, Matt G, Tyler W, You, and I, along with a few more. That was great team work back then!
My take on this tread and I have said it before on other threads much like this:
There are to many people (Race Promoters) that want their Race Series to be the #1 Series in the US. I have seen this happen over the years way to many times. What does this do for the riders? Nothing! Yes you get more races to choose from, but it also pulls away from the quality of the event and the prizes handed out. When we started MADRA in the early 2000's we did it based on what the racers wanted. We held a meeting and asked them what they wanted and we gave it to them. Our goal was to bring everyone together. Not to make $$, but to help our sport grow on the East Coast. Well it did for a little while. Then every Tom, Dick, and Hairy started trying to put on races and was pulling Sponsors away from on another and spreading them self thin at all of these smaller races. A true US race series needs a lot of Promoting, Marketing, Leadership, great Venue, and big prizes to pull in a large 300 to 400+ racers. With that you bring $$'s to the Venue, the surrounding city or town. When your doing this you will end up with a year after year sustainable Venue.
I personally feel all the big race promoters should join together and come up with a US National Race series with about 8 to 10 big races a year over the whole US. Put XC, DS, Super D and DH races on together on the same weekend. Do it for the sport and the racers! Make it fun again and not a competition on how has put on the best race.
My 2 Cents! Go ride your bike,
Cecil
I said "I" because I am the one that counted it up. That's all. No diss to our crew.
No flaming, but some things to think about:
1) It's a big cost to get UCI inscription for ANY race, would be pricey for a whole series. Would riders be willing to accept an increase in price with no change in product besides UCI points
2)Tough to run 3 separate series without overlap with other major events, I like the points applying only to one series, but my 2 cents worth is that riders are going to need to race other regions just to get exposure to different styles of courses.
The cost of trying to get juniors and developmental pros to a national series is brutal. Regionalization would be a way to bring the cost back down and give people who might not have the opportunities some racers have a chance to qualify and develop. The flip side is that if we're trying to develop the best junior riders to compete against international riders, using all of terrain availabe to us as american riders will best prepare them (combination of port angeles, mammoth, schweitzer, angel fire, telluride, mt. snow, plattekilll, beech,[insert your favorite mountain here] )
The big issue has already been suggested, if USa Cycling puts their stamp on one series (ProGRT), all of the rest of the series are meaningless if you're a junior trying to make it to worlds. This may not apply as much to developmental pros, and there are people out there that would know a lot more about that than I do. Right now, unless you're blazing fast (think Richie Rude and Austin Warren), you've got to go to the races that are going to be part of the selection process. You could just make the selection based on regional winners, but USA cycling would have to buy in.
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Didn't know you could count that high!I said "I" because I am the one that counted it up. That's all. No diss to our crew.
How could you be a hack? Don't you train with THE Romanian DH World Championship team?
For those who are curious, watch some old Dirt movies (Earthed 1-3) and see that the WC guys used to show up pretty often for CO races. Nathan Renie loved Snowmass; Greg Minnaar said Vail is one of his favorite places.
Anyway; Angel Fire and Snowmass are some legit EF'n DH that should be used as often as possible. Not that Keystone, Sol Vista, Crested Butte, Telluride or Winter Park are not fun; it's just that those 2 stand out in my mind as worth the trip to CO.
And hey, anyone remember Deer Valley in Utah? How about Sun Valley Idaho? Wyoming has more than just Teton Pass, Grand Targhee runs a race. There's a lot of lift access in the Rockies that doesn't get national attention.
So we should make huge changes just to get a couple pros and juniors to the world cups? Like someone said the cream will rise to the top....if you have world cup speed you will be noticed. If you don’t cater to sport/experts then in the end you wont have any race series at all.
Changes need to start small: Promoters, please use proper grammar and spelling in your press releases.
Also, please make sure riders' names are spelled correctly in the results - especially when the riders request that they are corrected
@gemini2k: sadly the YardSale section at Mount Snow has been closed to bikes for years now due to erosion (I believe). However, if you do the Tough Mudder you get to run down part of it. Definitely not as fun...
Also, please make sure riders' names are spelled correctly in the results - especially when the riders request that they are corrected
@gemini2k: sadly the YardSale section at Mount Snow has been closed to bikes for years now due to erosion (I believe). However, if you do the Tough Mudder you get to run down part of it. Definitely not as fun...
yes. all of them.
This brings tears to my eyes. The one section of a trail on the east coast that was on my bucket list
.
This brings tears to my eyes. The one section of a trail on the east coast that was on my bucket list
.
I *STILL* owe you bacon! WTH!Changes need to start small: Promoters, please use proper grammar and spelling in your press releases.
Also, please make sure riders' names are spelled correctly in the results - especially when the riders request that they are corrected
@gemini2k: sadly the YardSale section at Mount Snow has been closed to bikes for years now due to erosion (I believe). However, if you do the Tough Mudder you get to run down part of it. Definitely not as fun...
There is no "we" in narcicist.
yeah that. Neko and Richie Rude both rode GRT and ESC. Richie was at a couple of ESC races last year that I went to. You're fast, you'll get noticed. I don't think there's an argument that anything is prohibiting good riders from advancing; just this year we have Richie, Neko, and Gwin as pros, and they're all pretty awesome at what they do.
Yes, you do. Windham?
I hear ya! I miss the yard sale.....but ALOT of people got hurt there. I think the last 3 years the yard sale was open the skies opened up on Sunday for the pro's and some of them got racked!This brings tears to my eyes. The one section of a trail on the east coast that was on my bucket list
Honestly I think the top of Mt Snow was way more dangerous.....30 mph + open slope rock slabs with big holes....a true DH rig was an absolute must!
The Pro GRT and the USGP are both nonsense. They are not race series', they are meaningless titles bestowed seemingly at random to plain old regional races. Last year the Crested Butte MSC race (where I am right now) was a GRT and this year it is a GP. Why? Beats the **** out of me, this track is terrible and always has been. The race used to have a climb in it and now it's a little better but still just a test of horsepower down a blue trail. When I heard the concept for the ProGRT, I thought it was stupid and utterly without substance. Now we have ProGRT2, but without even the benefit of the blessing of USA cycling, so it is meaningless for worlds and national team selection, giving it even less substance. These series' are as legitimate as Wilt Chamberlain's kids, just a worthless title placed on a race that was already there. The people behind them can't even finish a website, and a website is all these "series'" even have to offer. Don't waste your money, if you're going to travel, do it for good tracks and good events, if you can find any...
pretty scathing, but I agree, I can't understand why the usagp has no website beyond a shiny photo. I couldn't believe people actually showed up to that race. Could it be legacy? Sugarbush has been around forever and they do one race a year.
I agree too.
Though I think many people went to Sugarbush because it was on the way to MSA. The pro field outnumbered all the other racers put together.
this thread is too funny.. loads of bitter people.. loads of people talking from the outside looking in.
don't care about the MTB GP, don't follow it. i'm just trying to do something to help grow the sport when people just bitch an moan. i'm not gettin paid, i'm losing a **** ton of cash, & all people do is bitch.. step up to the plate & then we'll talk.
yep, it does suck that there are "2" national series.. i have my reasons for parting ways with USAC.. but i wish them the best of luck. we're just on 2 different paths.
yes, i'm trying to build a east coast / west coast series for amateurs within the GP
no i'm not requiring venues to be USAC sanctioned, BUT I DO RECOMMEND IT for them, mainly for insurance reasons & to offer the potential for UCI points
no we don't offer UCI points, yes i do WANT to offer uci points, last time i checked how many did the "other series" venues offered UCI points? pretty sure it's just one & all of them are USAC sanctioned... oops. realistically when you're bringing top riders to the event, you need to be at least a UCI cat 2 event to really even make it worth it.. & there's a lot that goes into that process financially & logistically.
i'm sorry the website isn't up. i can't afford to hire a designer, i haven't heard from the person who's volunteered to design it for me, & i have no time to build it myself these days.. so i've just updating twitter feeds & facebook posts.
dont know what you're talking about.. the crested butte MSC isn't a GP.
yes, there are only 4 venues this year.. could have easily been 6, but i wasn't interested in specific venue, so i "didn't get" the other.. so they went elsewhere. oh well.
i've got at least 8 east coast venues, several rocky mountain venues, a couple of pacific NW venues & a few southern california venues who already want to be a part of my 2013 series...oh yah, & now a canadian venue. i've got top riders supporting my series, as well as media. i think the GP will be fine.
again, don't like it.. feel free to start up your own series... or "non-series"
don't care about the MTB GP, don't follow it. i'm just trying to do something to help grow the sport when people just bitch an moan. i'm not gettin paid, i'm losing a **** ton of cash, & all people do is bitch.. step up to the plate & then we'll talk.
yep, it does suck that there are "2" national series.. i have my reasons for parting ways with USAC.. but i wish them the best of luck. we're just on 2 different paths.
yes, i'm trying to build a east coast / west coast series for amateurs within the GP
no i'm not requiring venues to be USAC sanctioned, BUT I DO RECOMMEND IT for them, mainly for insurance reasons & to offer the potential for UCI points
no we don't offer UCI points, yes i do WANT to offer uci points, last time i checked how many did the "other series" venues offered UCI points? pretty sure it's just one & all of them are USAC sanctioned... oops. realistically when you're bringing top riders to the event, you need to be at least a UCI cat 2 event to really even make it worth it.. & there's a lot that goes into that process financially & logistically.
i'm sorry the website isn't up. i can't afford to hire a designer, i haven't heard from the person who's volunteered to design it for me, & i have no time to build it myself these days.. so i've just updating twitter feeds & facebook posts.
dont know what you're talking about.. the crested butte MSC isn't a GP.
yes, there are only 4 venues this year.. could have easily been 6, but i wasn't interested in specific venue, so i "didn't get" the other.. so they went elsewhere. oh well.
i've got at least 8 east coast venues, several rocky mountain venues, a couple of pacific NW venues & a few southern california venues who already want to be a part of my 2013 series...oh yah, & now a canadian venue. i've got top riders supporting my series, as well as media. i think the GP will be fine.
again, don't like it.. feel free to start up your own series... or "non-series"
^^^^ Y'all realize there would be no national series(s) of any kind without this guy, right?
And that's why the pro field went to Sugarbush and not 90min West to Whiteface for the GRT.
And that's why the pro field went to Sugarbush and not 90min West to Whiteface for the GRT.
JDD, I know it's a bummer to hear someone harshing on your ideas and I'm sorry about that, but the reality of the situation is that as far as I can tell everything I said is true, and I have heard no answers to the contrary. I know you care about this sport, I am friends with some of your riders, and I know your heart's in the right place. I went out of the way not to name you in my criticisms, and I don't want this to be personal. But allow me to make a few points as to why this concept of the pick-and-choose title series a bad idea.
A. Your time is worth something, and you should be compensated for it. You said you are losing money on the deal, and I don't doubt it. What mechanism is in place for you to even have a chance of making money? Seeing as how all these races still belong 100% to their respective promoters and they are making all the money off of entries, how do you even have a chance to break even? Doing things for the love or for the community is great, but not sustainable, and people are not likely to support something just because you're losing money on it.
B. Lets say you can answer my criticisms by picking up a sponsor to cover purses for the series or the cost of UCI inscription, then you would have something legit and life would be peachy, right? Not necessarily, again because you do not own the races, you don't have the authority to offer anyone the rights to on-site sponsorship. Lets say Intense and SRAM want to get behind you, do you think Yeti/shimano are going to let them brand an MSC round that they own? Not a chance. So now you can only use races where there is no sponsor conflict or it can be worked out, further limiting your options and compromising quality.
C. Like you, I want the sport to grow more than anything else. I want good races for myself to attend because it's what I love doing, I want to see my country succeed on the international stage, and I want more people to share the joy that I get out of racing downhill. But the only way for the sport to grow is for it to get better. Again, because you have no control over what happens on the ground at these events, there is no opportunity to ensure that anything improves. Of course, with a big enough following you could potentially leverage promoters into making improvements in order to receive the distinction of being a "national". But that’s a disconnected way to seek improvement, and now that there's two of these things going on, I don't see that happening.
D. As other people have pointed out earlier in the thread, it is really f-ing expensive for a racer, few of whom are rich, to criss-cross the country to follow a series. Think your expenses are significant? How about the total expense for 40 or 50 different racers to travel from the west to New York? I'm guestimating an easy six figures. And if you are going to ask that of the field, which you are just by having the thing in the first place and marketing it as a series that will offer something, you owe it to them and the community to make sure it's worth their while. That means good tracks, purses, points, good event execution, all the things we all want out of a race. You are not in a position to offer any of these things. If my memory serves, in the first year of the GRT, Chris Heath and Chris Boice finished 1 and 2. Both riders, despite spending many thousands of dollars in travel investment, not to mention blood, sweat, and tears, were then snubbed for the World's team by USA cycling, which was supposedly behind the ProGRT idea. If the winner of the "national" series doesn't even earn a worlds spot, then it is pretty obvious that it is not actually the national series. Is there a payday for your overall series winners? Nope. Is it a stepping stone to something bigger? Not really.
E. Which brings me to my final point, and the most important, which is legitimacy. I could put on a race in my backyard and call it the Championship of the Universe, but that doesn't make it so. The GP and the GRT are dealing only in titles and accolades. Without substance behind them, these things are of no value to the perceptive. Your hard work notwithstanding, the product is what matters, and this product stinks. It pains me to see my fellow racers spending their time and money to travel to races that offer them nothing, because they fell victim to a marketing scheme. I am well aware of the pitfalls and incompetency of USA cycling, but unfortunately it is what we've got for now. They are the governing body of our sport, and they are the entity recognized by the UCI. So unfortunately, they are the only ones with the authority to declare something a "national". I fully support unsanctioned events like the US Open or the Triple Dhip, but no matter how big or well supported, they could not claim to be a "national" anything.
What gives me the right to make these criticisms? For one, I am human being who has eyes. And more importantly, I am your customer. As soon as you decided to get behind the promotion side of this sport, your efforts were open to criticism. I race year in and year out, sacrificing tens of thousands of dollars, a home life, my time, and my health because I love this sport. I have literally been to the edge of death doing this stuff, and came back for more. Step up to the plate? I’m at the plate, every year with my money and my neck on the line. One day, if it's a good idea and I have the resources necessary to do it right, I may be on the other side of the race tape, but for now, I'm staying on the track. I am not criticizing your effort or your character, but my dedication to this sport as an athlete gives me and my peers the right to an opinion on how it is run.
You got me on one thing, Crested Butte isn't a GP, kinda hard to look that up though.
A. Your time is worth something, and you should be compensated for it. You said you are losing money on the deal, and I don't doubt it. What mechanism is in place for you to even have a chance of making money? Seeing as how all these races still belong 100% to their respective promoters and they are making all the money off of entries, how do you even have a chance to break even? Doing things for the love or for the community is great, but not sustainable, and people are not likely to support something just because you're losing money on it.
B. Lets say you can answer my criticisms by picking up a sponsor to cover purses for the series or the cost of UCI inscription, then you would have something legit and life would be peachy, right? Not necessarily, again because you do not own the races, you don't have the authority to offer anyone the rights to on-site sponsorship. Lets say Intense and SRAM want to get behind you, do you think Yeti/shimano are going to let them brand an MSC round that they own? Not a chance. So now you can only use races where there is no sponsor conflict or it can be worked out, further limiting your options and compromising quality.
C. Like you, I want the sport to grow more than anything else. I want good races for myself to attend because it's what I love doing, I want to see my country succeed on the international stage, and I want more people to share the joy that I get out of racing downhill. But the only way for the sport to grow is for it to get better. Again, because you have no control over what happens on the ground at these events, there is no opportunity to ensure that anything improves. Of course, with a big enough following you could potentially leverage promoters into making improvements in order to receive the distinction of being a "national". But that’s a disconnected way to seek improvement, and now that there's two of these things going on, I don't see that happening.
D. As other people have pointed out earlier in the thread, it is really f-ing expensive for a racer, few of whom are rich, to criss-cross the country to follow a series. Think your expenses are significant? How about the total expense for 40 or 50 different racers to travel from the west to New York? I'm guestimating an easy six figures. And if you are going to ask that of the field, which you are just by having the thing in the first place and marketing it as a series that will offer something, you owe it to them and the community to make sure it's worth their while. That means good tracks, purses, points, good event execution, all the things we all want out of a race. You are not in a position to offer any of these things. If my memory serves, in the first year of the GRT, Chris Heath and Chris Boice finished 1 and 2. Both riders, despite spending many thousands of dollars in travel investment, not to mention blood, sweat, and tears, were then snubbed for the World's team by USA cycling, which was supposedly behind the ProGRT idea. If the winner of the "national" series doesn't even earn a worlds spot, then it is pretty obvious that it is not actually the national series. Is there a payday for your overall series winners? Nope. Is it a stepping stone to something bigger? Not really.
E. Which brings me to my final point, and the most important, which is legitimacy. I could put on a race in my backyard and call it the Championship of the Universe, but that doesn't make it so. The GP and the GRT are dealing only in titles and accolades. Without substance behind them, these things are of no value to the perceptive. Your hard work notwithstanding, the product is what matters, and this product stinks. It pains me to see my fellow racers spending their time and money to travel to races that offer them nothing, because they fell victim to a marketing scheme. I am well aware of the pitfalls and incompetency of USA cycling, but unfortunately it is what we've got for now. They are the governing body of our sport, and they are the entity recognized by the UCI. So unfortunately, they are the only ones with the authority to declare something a "national". I fully support unsanctioned events like the US Open or the Triple Dhip, but no matter how big or well supported, they could not claim to be a "national" anything.
What gives me the right to make these criticisms? For one, I am human being who has eyes. And more importantly, I am your customer. As soon as you decided to get behind the promotion side of this sport, your efforts were open to criticism. I race year in and year out, sacrificing tens of thousands of dollars, a home life, my time, and my health because I love this sport. I have literally been to the edge of death doing this stuff, and came back for more. Step up to the plate? I’m at the plate, every year with my money and my neck on the line. One day, if it's a good idea and I have the resources necessary to do it right, I may be on the other side of the race tape, but for now, I'm staying on the track. I am not criticizing your effort or your character, but my dedication to this sport as an athlete gives me and my peers the right to an opinion on how it is run.
You got me on one thing, Crested Butte isn't a GP, kinda hard to look that up though.
I could not give a **** either way, but the pro grt in WA was the best race (track/vibe/no BS) I have been to in YEARS. And for those who wonder, I have been to races numbering in the hundreds from Quebec Cup, to Canada Cup, NORBA, NCS, IXS, Maxxis cup, Nissan Cup, World Cup, National championships and world championships.
All of this over 18+ years, where i've seen the sport grow from almost nothing to a behemoth and then back to almost nothing and now starting to soar again.
Are you seriously complaining because there are TOO MANY races to go to??? I don't get it. I don't agree with every JDD does, but he is putting his back into a sport he loves. That's more than can be said for 99% of you.
edit: Who care's if it is a "national" series. It's a race series. I agree that if your series has no effect whatsoever on national team selection, it's not a national series. It's simply a race series, which isn't a bad thing.
All any of these series are at the level anyone on this forum is racing, is bragging rights. Until you make 30 or 40 grand a year from a team/sponsors and can live off of it, you are not a professional cyclist. You are amateur (even if you are fast) and are riding bikes for fun, not to feed your family.If you are serious about qualifying for worlds for bragging right (where you will inevitably get smoked), go to those races that will help you achieve this goal.
Pick your races based on the track, the venue and the BS factor. It's not really a big deal, is it? It's racing pedal bikes at an amateur level. Have fun for ****s sake?
All of this over 18+ years, where i've seen the sport grow from almost nothing to a behemoth and then back to almost nothing and now starting to soar again.
Are you seriously complaining because there are TOO MANY races to go to??? I don't get it. I don't agree with every JDD does, but he is putting his back into a sport he loves. That's more than can be said for 99% of you.
edit: Who care's if it is a "national" series. It's a race series. I agree that if your series has no effect whatsoever on national team selection, it's not a national series. It's simply a race series, which isn't a bad thing.
All any of these series are at the level anyone on this forum is racing, is bragging rights. Until you make 30 or 40 grand a year from a team/sponsors and can live off of it, you are not a professional cyclist. You are amateur (even if you are fast) and are riding bikes for fun, not to feed your family.If you are serious about qualifying for worlds for bragging right (where you will inevitably get smoked), go to those races that will help you achieve this goal.
Pick your races based on the track, the venue and the BS factor. It's not really a big deal, is it? It's racing pedal bikes at an amateur level. Have fun for ****s sake?
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Well said, Fraser.
Sheesh this is silly, we all have our differences and many people in this community don't agree with each other on a lot of things but I think we all would like to see a solid national series that consistently has a strong pro field with the top world cup racers making appearances. Arguing over which series is better is just childish, if you truly love the sport work together to better the sport. We all want to see the races have the coverage and support that they did in the 90's, bickering and being divided will not allow that to happen especially in this economy. Downhill Mike...you should be ashamed that you made this thread however I think some good could come from this because this is obviously an issue that needs to be worked out.
Perils of a cancelled flight, reading RM haha.
The only thing that MUST be done, is putting XC and Gravity events back together again. The fragmentation of the sport is a death sentence on any level. The sport never was and is currently not large enough to sustain all these fragmented series/events. Even if it means having a mediocre XC track one weekend, and a mediocre DH track another weekend, we must mingle with both disciplines.
I'd rather see a 'series' go away and die and take a year off, or more, let all these small town/big town promoters still have there events, but work on building a quality XC/DH series (ala NORBA NATIONALS) instead of hobbling along, wounded with 50 different 'series'.
The only thing that MUST be done, is putting XC and Gravity events back together again. The fragmentation of the sport is a death sentence on any level. The sport never was and is currently not large enough to sustain all these fragmented series/events. Even if it means having a mediocre XC track one weekend, and a mediocre DH track another weekend, we must mingle with both disciplines.
I'd rather see a 'series' go away and die and take a year off, or more, let all these small town/big town promoters still have there events, but work on building a quality XC/DH series (ala NORBA NATIONALS) instead of hobbling along, wounded with 50 different 'series'.
Good reply. Thanks for speaking your mind.
AMEN
I was recently shocked to discover just how little many "new"(racing less than 10 years) xc or dh racers don't know anything about other disciplines. It blew my mind.
Talent is cheaper than ever right now, free mostly(Heck, they'll even pay you). Even slight economies of scale make a huge difference.
More dirtbags sleeping in one hotel room. Start with that and extrapolate.
What everybody has to keep in mind when looking at a topic such as this is your interest and how (if all) it relates with the goal of the race promoter...
The race or event promoter should have a, "mission statement" or goal that they are looking to achieve by creating their event(s). It is their goal to pursue and try achieve, not the necessarily the ridemonkey.com member's goals. The sponsors that they attract may have goals that they would like to add as well, but that is a different discussion.
I'm not saying that customers shouldn't have the ability to offer input to a business that they have or are considering being a patron of but that being said, at the end of the day, it's their business. If you don't like what is being offered for a product, don't buy it. It's really that simple.
I know from experience, it is not an easy task to put together one event, let alone a series. Regardless if it a local "beer series" or an event trying to attract national & international talent, it takes more than most will ever realize to put a successful event together.
I am supportive of all promoters putting in their time, effort, and money into hosting a cycling race or event. Does that mean, I will attend every event, no. Does that mean every event will meet all, "MY" expectations, no. Will I complain about an event to anyone willing to read my post on the internet, no.
But I guess this is Ridemonkey... and opinions are like a**holes- Everybody has one, some people have two...
The race or event promoter should have a, "mission statement" or goal that they are looking to achieve by creating their event(s). It is their goal to pursue and try achieve, not the necessarily the ridemonkey.com member's goals. The sponsors that they attract may have goals that they would like to add as well, but that is a different discussion.
I'm not saying that customers shouldn't have the ability to offer input to a business that they have or are considering being a patron of but that being said, at the end of the day, it's their business. If you don't like what is being offered for a product, don't buy it. It's really that simple.
I know from experience, it is not an easy task to put together one event, let alone a series. Regardless if it a local "beer series" or an event trying to attract national & international talent, it takes more than most will ever realize to put a successful event together.
I am supportive of all promoters putting in their time, effort, and money into hosting a cycling race or event. Does that mean, I will attend every event, no. Does that mean every event will meet all, "MY" expectations, no. Will I complain about an event to anyone willing to read my post on the internet, no.
But I guess this is Ridemonkey... and opinions are like a**holes- Everybody has one, some people have two...