yeah i was looking at them on jenson usa and it says there 119 a brake but does that include lever and hoseOGRipper said:Don't know if it's too late or what but just wanted you to know you can use regular shimano or hayes rotors with Saint brakes, you don't need to use the centerlocks, and thus you don't need centerlock hubs. I have the older xt 4-pots and love them. A couple friends of mine recently switched from old xt to saint and they say the saints are just a little bit more powerful and offer slightly better modulation and control. Pretty sure the saints are a little less weight too - but only a little.