Need some advice from the 'puter guru's

Silver · May 20, 2004

I'd get a slower processor and take the money you save and spend it on extra ram (if you know how, it'll be cheaper to put it in yourself.)

512 or more is nice if you're doing more than email and internet.

$tinkle · May 20, 2004

one-stop: tomshardware.com

LordOpie · May 20, 2004

why would you even think about a Mac?

I'm typing this on a Mac, but it's for work...

why do you need such a powerful PC?

Why do you need a flat screen?

I'm poor, so if you've got the dough, go for it, but I'd rather spend my money elsewhere unless you have a good reason for those items.

And yeah, get more RAM.

binary visions · May 20, 2004

You'll get a LOT of conflicting information about brands on computers.

Personally, I've had great luck/experience with Dell, and I think it's a great brand. I've seen/used/installed many of them, and have only had one that was DOA, but it had a large gash in the box so it was most likely a shipping problem. Their tech support has been very good to me.

But as I said, you will get a lot of conflicting information on here.

luken8r · May 20, 2004

if you know of anyone with computer skillz, have them build you one. its way cheaper in the long run and you get exactly what you want.

AMD chips >>> Intel
faster, less power, and way cheaper

HPs are the only ones i can think of that have AMD chips in a built system.
if not, go get a dell. i recently bought a laptop through them and its a nice piece of equiptment. they always have killer deals. if you go this route, price out both home and small buisness. the laptop i got was $200 cheaper in the small buisness sector than the home store

LordOpie · May 20, 2004

Originally posted by Andyman_1970
How well they run, but their price and software price make them unattractive.

I occasianally (sp?) do some CAD work at home.

With the baby due anyday now, my office got moved from the big bedroom to a smaller one, so space is an issue. The 17" is so much better for CAD work than the 15".

sounds like good reasons to me. Well, except for the Mac part. My PC at home runs just as well as my Mac at work.

Did you post about getting a little one? Regardless...

CONGRATS to you and AndyWoman!

Repack · May 20, 2004

Originally posted by Silver
I'd get a slower processor and take the money you save and spend it on extra ram (if you know how, it'll be cheaper to put it in yourself.)

512 or more is nice if you're doing more than email and internet.

That is also what I have been told.
Same goes for what Luken8r said about AMD.
From what I know, processor speeds are like watage ratings on a stereo speaker. They only refer to the maximum output. In the case of a speaker, that is only possible with a pure note or some crap like that. An I/T friend who helped me choose a new computer said that AMD's operate more effieciently than Intels, so that even though the rating is faster on an Intels, the AMD's actually perform faster. He also said that IBM's have gotten a lot better. Also, if you are a novice like me, having 24/7 tech support beats the hell out of having a friend build up a comp. If adding memmory is as easy as installing an internal CD burner, put the memmory in yourself. When my brother bought his last computer, the next level of RAM was like 4x as expensive as doing it himself (hundreds of dollars). I *think* he said that when he bought an extra 256K it was ~$75, but to get it from Dell would have been several hundred because of all the crap that came bundled with it. My parents computer has 1G of RAM and its sick. Fast like Stiffler's mom.

luken8r · May 21, 2004

Originally posted by Repack
An I/T friend who helped me choose a new computer said that AMD's operate more effieciently than Intels, so that even though the rating is faster on an Intels, the AMD's actually perform faster.

the number on an AMD chip represents the comparitave speed of an Intel chip. For instance, the comp I have here uses an AMD 2600+, which is to say it operates as fast as a Intel 2.6ghz proc, but in actuality, it only runs around 2.0ghz.
also AMD has some pretty slick 64bit chips which blow away any intel chip at any speed. for the nerdy, techy factor, get one of those if you can find it. if not a regular AMD setup will be just fine

derekbob · May 21, 2004

I wouldnt reccomend having a box built by a friend, mainly for tech support reasons. Build your own box if you can deal with the problems that will arise (and they will), if you cant, youll be dependent on the person who put your box together. No matter how cool your computer saavy friend is, hes not going to appreciate hearing from you everytime you have an issue (and you will). Ive heard lots of horror stories about HPs, and Ive heard mainly good things about Dell. just my 2 cents.

bomberz1qr20 · May 21, 2004

Originally posted by luken8r
HPs are the only ones i can think of that have AMD chips in a built system.

eMachines:

http://www.emachines.com/products/products.html?prod=eMachines_T3085

Decently priced. Not super swank, but a good box over all.

Costco has them dirt cheap sometimes.

I have an older one (PIII) , and it's been rock solid for years.

Wumpus · May 21, 2004

Related thread --> http://www.bikemojo.com/speak/showthread.php?t=28792&highlight=madre

DHS · May 21, 2004

MAC

i have no problems what so ever. hell my job is building PCs. and i must say its a pain compared to my Mac.

Transcend · May 22, 2004

Originally posted by luken8r

also AMD has some pretty slick 64bit chips which blow away any intel chip at any speed. for the nerdy, techy factor, get one of those if you can find it. if not a regular AMD setup will be just fine

Well technically, they won't. There is pretty much zero commercially available software to a consumer as of yet, that has been properly designed to run with a 64b processor.

Also AMDs pull WAY WAY more power, and put out way more heat. (I know, i have designed and run AMD systems for about 4-5 years).

As for store bought, avoid HP at all costs (custom Mobos/cases etc). Your best bet is to go to the local enthusiats shop and get somethign custom built for half the price. If not, get a dell, they are kick ass.

As for cad, for the money youw ills pend on a 17" lcd, you can get a sweet 19" crt flatscreen. More space, but an infinetly better monitor. I Love my 21" Viewsonic.

bomberz1qr20 · May 22, 2004

Originally posted by Transcend

As for cad, for the money youw ills pend on a 17" lcd, you can get a sweet 19" crt flatscreen. More space, but an infinetly better monitor. I Love my 21" Viewsonic.

johnbryanpeters · May 22, 2004

Stick with a PC, not a Mac.

Don't waste time on worrying about what processor.
Don't have your local shop or a friend build it.
Dell's excellent. Buy it through the small business channel, not home.
Get XP Professional.
Get a 19" monitor if you can afford it.
Get 512 MB RAM.

binary visions · May 22, 2004

Originally posted by johnbryanpeters
Stick with a PC, not a Mac.

Don't waste time on worrying about what processor.
Don't have your local shop or a friend build it.
Dell's excellent. Buy it through the small business channel, not home.
Get XP Professional.
Get a 19" monitor if you can afford it.
Get 512 MB RAM.

DEFINITLY get the 512mb ram.

I've had and fixed lots of problems with some friend's/family's installations of XP Home, not one with XP Pro.

Don't sell yourself short on hard drive space - it's easy to fill up. Hard drives are cheap, get a big one.

BigMike · May 22, 2004

Find some kid in college to get it for you... Stuff is WAY cheaper through a college computer store

I have had good luck with Dell. I have an Inspirion laptop, and so does my sister and roommate. My roommate just spilled coffee on hers, sent it back, they fixed it up and sent it back with a new keyboard, RAM, Touchpad, Motherboard.... and some other stuff. All for Free! Their warrenty is definantly the best out there right now. Only bad thing, is they have no storefronts, you have to send it away.

Whatever you do, STAY AWAY FROM COMPAQ!

Tenchiro · May 22, 2004

If you want a proprietary computer that will cost you an arm and a leg for the limited upgrades available, then get a Dell.

If you want to freedom to upgrade whenever needed for relatively cheap build it yourself or have someone who knows how do it.

For example I built my own about 8 years ago, and have been upgrading when I needed since then and have pobably spent less than $2000 total on the computer. (Peripherals not icluded)

johnbryanpeters · May 22, 2004

Originally posted by Tenchiro
If you want a proprietary computer that will cost you an arm and a leg for the limited upgrades available, then get a Dell.

If you want to freedom to upgrade whenever needed for relatively cheap build it yourself or have someone who knows how do it.

For example I built my own about 8 years ago, and have been upgrading when I needed since then and have pobably spent less than $2000 total on the computer. (Peripherals not icluded)

Tench,

I think that works for geeks, but lots of people don't have the desire or the skills to put together a good computer. Does your cost include purchasing the operating system? I have seen too many friends go right down the hole with the "my buddy/local small shop built it" approach. For the average user, it's hard or impossible o determine who's competent.

J

D_D · May 22, 2004

All the dells I have seen are just as upgradable as everything else. As long as you avoid the really cheap models or the ones in slim cases you are free to upgrade the video card, drives, ram and there are allways plently of spare slots.

One trouble with them is if you deviate from the base spec it can be really costly. Adding extra ram can be several times more expensive than buying a stick and installing it yourself.

mack · May 22, 2004

macs, not that i like them, have a very LOW processor speed, i dont even think they list it. I have a centrino, its a slowwer processor but its integrated or somthing like that, so it actually performs better, even though the pentium 4 is faster. I would only get a mega processor if you are crunching big numbers or running big cad calculations.
i have acer laptop, they suck, go with the big boys, dell or emachine (have had good luck with them). insist on a good anti virsus and spy ware if ur on a high speed.

SLAYER2003 · May 22, 2004

I definately suggest building your own or going to a place to have one custom built per your specs. Best place to buy components is Newegg.com. They have the best prices, selection and service and I buy nearly everything from them. Here are the specs of my last build:

-Athlon 64 3400+ and Thermaltake CPU fan w/external bay controls

-Gigabyte K8NNXP Motherboard

-Western Digital (Caviar) 250 Gig Hard drive

-1 gig Kingston PC4000 DDR RAM

-TDK 880N 8X DVD Burner

-SoundBlaster Audigy 2 ZS Platinum Sound card

-EVGA G-Force FX 5900 SE Video Card.

I have swapped this video card already for a Quadro FX 500 and swapped this Gigabyte board for a reliable ASUS board. Not that this video card was bad, it just was not optimzed for SolidWorks CAD. I also have a 21.3 Samsung LCD which is the best (but spendy) upgrade to my system ever!

I have an extra 512 MB RAM Card that I am going to throw on EBAY for $75.00 shipped. It is Kingston Hyper-X 4000 DDR RAM if anybody is interested.

My board has three slots and I tried for 1.5 GB of RAM, but it does not like the third slot filled unless I set the RAM speed to 333mhz. I did a benchmark and found it to be a couple seconds faster with just one GB of RAM set to run at 400mhz than 1.5GB at 333mhz.

I need this power for Solidworks, Lightwave 3D, Photoshop, etc..,
if you do not have these kind of hobbies, then this is overkill, but I do highly suggest AMD and even more, the new AMD 64 chips. You can get an AMD 64 3000+ for quite cheap now and build a killer system for under $1,000.

If I absolutely had to buy a pre-made system like a Dell or Gateway, I would absolutely get one from ABS. These guys are the best around right now. Dell and the rest cannot even compare against these guys and they are kicking major ass and winning about every award for their systems, service, support, prices and everything you can think of.

Seriously, if you do not build, get an ABS:

http://www.abspc.com

Tenchiro · May 22, 2004

Originally posted by johnbryanpeters
Tench,

I think that works for geeks, but lots of people don't have the desire or the skills to put together a good computer. Does your cost include purchasing the operating system? I have seen too many friends go right down the hole with the "my buddy/local small shop built it" approach. For the average user, it's hard or impossible o determine who's competent.

J

I think if more people knew how easy it really is to build one, then Dell would be alot smaller company.

I could do a killer computer w/ flat panel monitor and OS for under $1500.

But I do see your point, but building your own not only teaches you more about your machine it also gives you a much better deal in the long run.

SLAYER2003 · May 22, 2004

Originally posted by johnbryanpeters
Tench,

I think that works for geeks, but lots of people don't have the desire or the skills to put together a good computer. Does your cost include purchasing the operating system? I have seen too many friends go right down the hole with the "my buddy/local small shop built it" approach. For the average user, it's hard or impossible o determine who's competent.

J

Geeks....???

I would not really call it a desire. It is more about knowing what exactly the hell I am paying for and how it works.

Do you do any of your bike work yourself rather than take it to a shop? Ever swapped a component on your bike? Have you built a bike up from the frame rather than buy one complete?

If so, then this is no different and you my friend are as much of a Geek as I am, but I would wager that you are even more of one than I am.

You may even learn something from the ordeal.

johnbryanpeters · May 22, 2004

Yeah, I'm a geek, and I have worked with computers since they had ferrite cores and wire for memory.

Every time I pick up the Tiger catalog and try to specify a computer it winds up more expensive than one off the shelf from Dell. Bikes are the same way. You can't come close to OEM prices building up a bike from bare frame and parts.

Challenge:

Specify parts for a computer for me to replace my tired desktop and let's see what it would cost.

XP Pro
Office 2003 Professional
no monitor
no speakers
tower or mini-tower
PCI
DVD burner
10/100 Ethernet
512 MB
7K RPM or better HD

J

splat · May 22, 2004

As much as I may Battle JBP , because of his Hate of Unix, I have to agree with him here.

You really can't do too much better than just getting a dell right off of the shelv , Especilly if you go for NO bells and whistles. that is where they get you.

and definatly go the Small Buisness route, as strange as it may sound they stick to the home user much more so than the buissess.

I my self Build up my own PC's and the last time I did an Upgrade it was really hard make it so it was cheaper to upgrade than just to buy a new dell right off of the shelf.

and even at that I have had some strange issues , that I have been able to take care of , but you average jo -user , will not.

Tenchiro · May 22, 2004

Code:

AMD Athlon XP 2800+ " Barton", 333MHz FSB, 512K Cache Processor - Retail	 $121.00 
CHAINTECH "7NJL1-APOGEE" nForce2 Ultra 400 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU -RETAIL	 $86.00  (Includes NIC & Sound Card)
Kingston 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200	 $90.00 
Kingston 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200	 $90.00 
SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9600PRO Video Card, 128MB DDR, 128-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP	 $126.00 
ANTEC Black Performance Series II SOHO File Server Tower ATX Case with 400W Power Supply, Model "SX1040BII" 	 $89.00 
Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model WD800JD, OEM Drive Only 	 $76.00 
Plextor Black 8X DVD-RW/+RW Drive, Model PX-708A/SW-BL, Retail	 $157.00 
PPA Serial ATA (SATA) 2-Port PCI Controller Card, Model "1301" -RETAIL 	 $29.00 
SCEPTRE X7g-KomodoIV 17" LCD Monitor w/ Speakers RETAIL	 $389.00 
Altec Lansing 251 5.1 Amplified Speaker System -RETAIL 	 $67.00 

Total $1320, XP & Office would be like $450 more

Comparable Dell Optiplex SX270 w/ half the RAM, a slower/smaller HD. Plus it is highly proprietary and upgrades may be limited.

Need some advice from the 'puter guru's

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