[bullcrew]

Didnt realize there was that much drag on the stock DU bushing till i swapped them out today. I remember another manufacturer was doing this at one point and if I remember it was Avalanche.
I figured for $19.99 installed it was worth it to see, if it didnt work then ehhh it still holds the shock in.

Anyhow a buddy told me of a shop thats near his place of work and it turned out pretty good. Small with lots of stuff, Alan (owner) ordered a XL jedi so we started BSn and then he popped in back and came out with this. He installed one on his shock.

Well it works really well, I thought Alan turned my comp down a couple of clicks open. I know he didint I was standing right there and obviousley took pics but it went down alot easier. I wanted to do both ends and he said just the end with the most significant movement, the other end barely moves but a couple of degrees and would wear a flat spot eventually.

Anyhow I just figured it was a good find, it definently made a difference right off the bat as far as feel and ease of shock pivot.

Just a cool find and figured Id throw it out there!
Alan, www.velomech.net not much of a site but he has a nice high end shop as well as trinkets, schwalbes (good price call only), King etc... Cool guy hell of a rider.

Old DU bushing

New DU bushing with needle bearings

Special press tools are needed to press it in, not to say others dont have the DU one but the one for the bearings is different then the DU one.

Alan charges $19.95 as well but if you send your shock in he'll install for free.

Yes I paid retail I just thought it was pretty damn slick so Id share it.

I did get free install though!

 

[Commencal-guy]

I was wondering when somebody would finally write about it.

I know Betd has a kit for needle bearings for shock DU bushings, but never actually thought about purchasing one.

 

[zdubyadubya]

man, these combined with the obtainium needle bearing shock mounts and pretty soon the entire suspension system will be near frictionless. these are some really great (obvious, why the heck didnt i think of it) engineering ideas!

 

[bullcrew]

Neither did I hell i hadnt even thought of it lOL.
Mike told me about this guy with a small high end shop so I figured Id go check it out and lots of cools stuff but he popped out with this and hell I was bored and it was $20 so figured ehhh Ill try it. LOL holy crap it literally felt as if he clicked the compression open on the shock. He laughed and said that then i sat on it and he was right. He did his shock so he already knew it would flow that smooth...

This is all in one just press out the old one and press in the new one, slide center through and put the dust seals back on. It literally was that simple and made as noticeable a difference as a lighter weight oil in a fork. It flowed really smooth and EASY.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

Me and my boss got these for our XC bikes. He installed his on an Anthem X and said he couldn't really tell a difference. I'll be installing mine on a Trance X. (Shock is at PUSH currently.) I'm sure this bike is going to feel way smoother after a shock tune and this upgrade...

I'm going to order another one for my Slopestyle probably...

 

[jvnixon]

You can buy them yourself also directly. Enduro also sells the tools to do it yourself.

http://enduroforkseals.com/id274.html

 

[Pepper Brooks]

I wonder about the long term durability of it. I know I go through DU bushings pretty quickly (ok, about once every 6 months) I am wondering how it would perform with the lack of rotation (depending on frame). Obviously this would be less important on a 303R than something like a linkage single pivot.

 

[bullcrew]

You can buy them yourself also directly. Enduro also sells the tools to do it yourself.

http://enduroforkseals.com/id274.html

YEah $19.95 and $55 for the tools.

I know he gets them from somewhere, but he turned me on to them so Id gave him the shout out!
Id have no idea if he didnt bring em out! Glad he did.

 

[jvnixon]

YEah $19.95 and $55 for the tools.

I know he gets them from somewhere, but he turned me on to them so Id gave him the shout out!
Id have no idea if he didnt bring em out! Glad he did.

Yea the tools cost money for sure but no sense in hiding the fact that they're from Enduro for people who are interested in getting some and don't have Allen nearby.

 

[NY_Star]

I'm pretty sure that $55 tool is called a vise and a socket set!

 

[William42]

I'm pretty sure that $55 tool is called a vise and a socket set!

Seriously

 

[Kanye West]

If you use some really nice Teflon grease, and your DU bushing/reducer interface is sized exactly correct, you shouldn't notice any difference in smoothness at all. Still nice to have any and all points of binding be completely frictionless. Interesting to see how little damping your shock is actually doing most of the time.

 

[Viv92]

BOS has had this for ever. Definitely makes a noticeable difference on the BOS, especially in the parking lot. Durability should be good if they are similar to the BOS ones.

The tools probably make it easier but I've put them in with a vice and sockets... worked fine.

 

[Bicyclist]

If you use some really nice Teflon grease, and your DU bushing/reducer interface is sized exactly correct, you shouldn't notice any difference in smoothness at all. Still nice to have any and all points of binding be completely frictionless. Interesting to see how little damping your shock is actually doing most of the time.

I thought you weren't supposed to grease DU bushings (they already have a teflon coating on them)?

 

[slowmtb]

If you use some really nice Teflon grease, and your DU bushing/reducer interface is sized exactly correct, you shouldn't notice any difference in smoothness at all. Still nice to have any and all points of binding be completely frictionless. Interesting to see how little damping your shock is actually doing most of the time.

Funny you should mention this. I pulled my bike down, found a poor interface on the DU ( too tight ) and proceeded to relieve the interface and grease ( with teflon grease ) - result, one smooth running machine
A lot of people I ride with who have ridden my bike comment on how well/smooth the back feels, bit of TLC goes a long way

A few of "DirtyMikes" tips and the front will be dialled very soon as well

 

[bullcrew]

Yea the tools cost money for sure but no sense in hiding the fact that they're from Enduro for people who are interested in getting some and don't have Allen nearby.

Because like enduro he will sell online! But hey thats cool I personally dont care. I saw the part not the packaging and then he told me the story of the cost on tools not the maker. So my layout was based on that!

 

[tacubaya]

Mine are on their way... I will post my experience as soon as I ride with them

 

[Kanye West]

I thought you weren't supposed to grease DU bushings (they already have a teflon coating on them)?

The Teflon coating is just there for wear. The grease just keeps things lubricated and keeps the dirt out.

DU bushing interface should be a mild press fit the first time in, as in almost be able to press in by hand. Then it should rotate somewhat freely after a few rotations and wear into to a tight slip fit with the grease.

I'll use Maxima Assembly Grease on it (the blue snot ****), or even PhilWood Tenacious Oil works well too, but doesn't last as long or keep dirt out as well. Prep-M/Motorex stuff always works too. I've used Pro Circuit PC-03 on them too when I didn't have anything else handy and it worked great. Lots of slick PTFE goodness in that stuff.

 

[dhbrigade]

We discussed this needle bearing solution for years now and especially since BOS shocks came stock with this bearings. It's interesting due to improvement of small bump sensitivity of the shock.

From an engineering point of view those bearings are not permitted to every type of frame. Needle bearings have less static load rating then normal shock eye bushings.

If you have a look at the FAG or SKF bearing cataloge you will see that this special cup needle roller bearing (SKF code: SCE57 for example) offers a basic static load rating of 4850N. If you own a shock with 3 inches of travel an use a 400lbs/inch spring you put at bottom out a minimum of 1200lbs on that bearing. This is equal to 544.32kg which equals a radial force on the bearing of 5339.8N. So nearly 10% over the maximum static load rating.

http://medias.ina.de/medias/en!hp.ec.br/SCE_IN;aQOG9wo-8CL9

You see, the capabilities depend on your weight an frame ratio. This is why all big shock producers are on du bushings. Go on with those bearings, its an affordable try, but don't expect them to last for ages.

 

[Transcend]

We ran these on prototype Fox stuff a few years ago when they were developing propedal. They lasted about 5-10 runs before they were completely shot.

There simply sin't enough movement to keep the wear even on most frames. 3 or 4 of the needles would end up completely shot in a very short period of time and end up jamming things up.

Hopefully these new one fair better (BOS ones seem to) as they did make a decent amount of difference.

 

[dhbrigade]

Here is a picture of the stoy shock eye:

Have a look at the engraved number. It's an INA HK1014-2RS bearing. Here you find the product data:
http://medias.ina.de/medias/en!hp.ec.br.pr/HK..-2RS*HK1014-2RS;abQ213Wh4sr9

So, nothing new. Stock INA 2RS bearings on the stoy.

 

[-C-]

I run them on my BOS/Empire.

Laughably because I can get bearings online cheaper than I can be bent over for the bushings in the UK.

No idea if they make any difference or not, but they are cheap, and easy to fit (a lot easier to fit than a bushing if you don't have a bushing tool!).

Socket, shock & a vice is all you need. Takes about 30 seconds.

 

[- pete -]

been running the BETD needle bearings on my old 01 DHR for 2 years, 18months on my 06 dhr and another on my sx enduro. they last for ever. grease them up every 2-3 months and they shouldnt wear out. infact the one that i originally fitted to my 01 dhr i also used on my 06 dhr.
once the revox get replaced on my m6 to an rc4 then the needle bearings will be fitted to that too

 

[miuan]

If the ID of the bearing is 10mm, instead of 12.7mm, will I need a new set of reducers to use my current frame hardware? If the bolt diameter is 8mm, will a reducer with just 1mm wall thickness withstand the loads?
I found INA also makes 12mm ID bearings, which would make use of Manitou reducers possible, but they would be too fragile I suppose.

 

[bullcrew]

If the ID of the bearing is 10mm, instead of 12.7mm, will I need a new set of reducers to use my current frame hardware? If the bolt diameter is 8mm, will a reducer with just 1mm wall thickness withstand the loads?
I found INA also makes 12mm ID bearings, which would make use of Manitou reducers possible, but they would be too fragile I suppose.

They come with a reducer, its a shaft that fits in the regular 12mm and comes with the kit.

 

[miuan]

enduroforkseals only provide the kit in 22mm reducer size, which is a popular size, but still it's useless for most pivots. I could possibly use some spacers to get any width I need, but I prefer a less diy solution.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Seems like an interesting concept, but makes sense what Transcend was saying about wear.

 

[time-bomb]

Definitely makes a noticeable difference on the BOS, especially in the parking lot.

good thing its performance excels in the parking lot

 

[bullcrew]

good thing its performance excels in the parking lot

Hey ya got to pedal to the lift might as well do it in comfort!

No it makes a noticeable difference on the chatter, smoother. Took it out to the park yesterday to give it a run.

 

[Mr Nug]

It's a shame the system's not compatible for bikes with 10mm hardware.

New shock eyelet standard anyone?

 

[time-bomb]

Hey ya got to pedal to the lift might as well do it in comfort!

No it makes a noticeable difference on the chatter, smoother. Took it out to the park yesterday to give it a run.

i have no doubts that this would make a noticeable difference. i would be curious to know if this + the obtainium bushing kit made an ever bigger difference or if it is just overkill at that point. i believe that kit alone would also be noticeable so would 1 + 1 actually = 2 in this case?

 

[Haywoodublowme]

The original Avalache shocks used needle bearings in both ends. They would last an entire season no problem. Just some grease and they were good for the next one.

 

[Viv92]

good thing its performance excels in the parking lot

Haha I'm glad someone caught that. Seriously though... I can't tell much difference on the trail between the needle bearings and greased bushings.

 

[bullcrew]

OK theres a 40mm on the way shortly (39.88) apparently if its within 1-2 mil you can use .5 mil spacers and if its over they are coming out with a dedicated spacer kits.

Approx 2 weeks or so is the take on availability.

 

[bcblur]

OK theres a 40mm on the way shortly (39.88) apparently if its within 1-2 mil you can use .5 mil spacers and if its over they are coming out with a dedicated spacer kits.

Approx 2 weeks or so is the take on availability.

Awesome. I have a couple of bikes with 8x41mm spacing that I've been waiting to try this on.

 

[dilzy]

Need a full compliment needle roller, like you find on all your moto linkages.

 

[YoPawn]

So it is true that you can run grease in the DU bushing?

What was the original fear of doing this? I think I heard it makes them wear out faster, but that doesn't make sense to me. I guess it will only cost $9 if it doesn't work. I will give this a shot maybe before buying a set of needles when they come in my size.

BTW, I put some needle bearings on my buddy's Trance X frame. What a HUGE improvement! I think lightweight frames with air shocks and little unsprung weight see the most from this upgrade. His bike feels like an 8 inch DH bike on the trail chatter now. Just freakin carpets that shiz!

 

[AzN_devil]

So it is true that you can run grease in the DU bushing?

What was the original fear of doing this? I think I heard it makes them wear out faster, but that doesn't make sense to me. I guess it will only cost $9 if it doesn't work. I will give this a shot maybe before buying a set of needles when they come in my size.

BTW, I put some needle bearings on my buddy's Trance X frame. What a HUGE improvement! I think lightweight frames with air shocks and little unsprung weight see the most from this upgrade. His bike feels like an 8 inch DH bike on the trail chatter now. Just freakin carpets that shiz!

actually i did try this last year on my blindside...one side greased and one side ungreased...tried that on both sides..conclusion..they last a little bit longer without grease..(~1 month)

needle bearings...someone diy'ed it 2 years ago locally on a santa cruz s8...it really does make a difference in the parking lot test...not as noticable on the trails but it is still there if you look for it.. the shock moves more freely when everythings in place...imo..its a nice thing to have but not exactly necessary...

im interseted in trying/getting the obtainium bearing + spring kit though...even if it doesnt do any good at least i dont have to keep adjusting my preload everytime it works itself loose

 

[YoPawn]

actually i did try this last year on my blindside...one side greased and one side ungreased...tried that on both sides..conclusion..they last a little bit longer without grease..(~1 month)

needle bearings...someone diy'ed it 2 years ago locally on a santa cruz s8...it really does make a difference in the parking lot test...not as noticable on the trails but it is still there if you look for it.. the shock moves more freely when everythings in place...imo..its a nice thing to have but not exactly necessary...

im interseted in trying/getting the obtainium bearing + spring kit though...even if it doesnt do any good at least i dont have to keep adjusting my preload everytime it works itself loose

That sounds reasonable. I will give the DU greasing a try! Should work fine with some PrepM in there. I will be upgrading to the needle kits once they come out with more sizes.

Combine that with a new Elka and a 2010 dh Lyrik and damn is my bike going to be smooooooooooooooooooooth!

 

[bullcrew]

My roco wc air will be back this coming week, Im looking forward to pressing it in it and riding. Should be a damn good combo with the air set up.....