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Neo Nazi Teen HACKS Up Mass. Gay Bar

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
whats up with this one

Man Critically Wounds 3 at Gay Bar in Mass.
Hate Crime Suspect Is Still at Large

By David A. Fahrenthold
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, February 3, 2006; Page A12

BOSTON, Feb. 2 -- An 18-year-old man with a handgun and a hatchet critically injured three customers inside a lounge with gay clientele in New Bedford, Mass., late Wednesday, just after asking the bartender if he was in a gay bar, police said.

Officials identified Jacob D. Robida of New Bedford as the suspect. He ran out of Puzzles Lounge after the attack, they said, and was still being sought Thursday evening. A police spokesman declined to say how investigators had connected Robida to the attack, but said they think he "has extreme violent tendencies."

"He still has the gun," said the spokesman, Capt. Richard M. Spirlet of the New Bedford Police Department.

Spirlet said the three victims, all men, were critically injured. At least two were reportedly at hospitals in Boston, about 55 miles north of New Bedford, a coastal city of 94,000. One victim suffered a deep gash to his head, one was shot in the torso, and one was shot and slashed in the cheek, Spirlet said.

The attack began around midnight. A bartender, who identified himself only as Phillip, told local television stations that the attacker first sat down and ordered a drink.

"He paid for his drink. He got another one five minutes later, and five minutes after that started attacking everybody," the bartender said.

Police said that, just before the attack, the man asked a bartender whether the establishment was a gay bar. He was told it was. Soon after, he pulled the hatchet from his coat and swung it at the customer next to him, police said.

A melee followed, as patrons struggled with the attacker. During the fight, police said, the man pulled out a gun and began shooting.

The bartender said one of the victims had just come out of the restroom when he was shot in the chest.

A spokesman for local prosecutors said Thursday that Robida had been charged with three counts of assault with intent to murder, as well as civil rights violations. Though authorities said the attack was classified as a hate crime, they did not release any specifics about a motive.

On Thursday afternoon, a group of activists who support Massachusetts's policy legalizing same-sex marriage said they were planning a vigil at the bar in honor of the victims.

Bev Baccelli, one of the organizers, said she thinks the attacker may have been encouraged by the rhetoric used by opponents of same-sex marriage here.

"They created an atmosphere of intolerance," she said, "and that atmosphere of intolerance just exploded in New Bedford."

But Rep. Barney Frank (D), who represents the area and is gay, said he thinks the city's residents are very open to gays, and blamed the rampage on the attacker alone.

"This is just a deranged individual," Frank said in a phone interview.
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
I'm sure you think a bunch white guys in white hooded outfits attacking blacks is just normal stuff too...
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Why does it matter "why" you decide to kill someone if they still end up dead?
Barring self defense of course.
 

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
be carefull, your on dangerous grounds. Once these people decide your a racist. Your one for life LOL
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Gay isnt a race, as far as im concerned, but they can think what they want, its the internet.
 

DirtyDog

Gang probed by the Golden Banana
Aug 2, 2005
6,598
0
Add a link to the original article or I'll have to remove it. You can't just steal content without some sort of credit for the original source.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
BurlyShirley said:
Why does it matter "why" you decide to kill someone if they still end up dead?
Hate crimes were instituted cuz they were being ignored. It's along the lines of "oh, he was drunk when he killed the kid on the bike, he didn't mean it." and now drunk driving is a crime.


as for Jacob, he was such a good jewish boy. Why he joined the nazis, we'll never know.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
BeerDemon said:
Add a link to the original article or I'll have to remove it. You can't just steal content without some sort of credit for the original source.
ya know, when i got fired from Burger King, I didn't continue wearing the uniform. :blah:
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
LordOpie said:
Hate crimes were instituted cuz they were being ignored. It's along the lines of "oh, he was drunk when he killed the kid on the bike, he didn't mean it." and now drunk driving is a crime.
But killing someone is already a crime. Why does it matter if
you "hate" them before you do it? They're the same exact amount of dead.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
BurlyShirley said:
But killing someone is already a crime. Why does it matter if
you "hate" them before you do it? They're the same exact amount of dead.
Maybe hate crimes are a bit obsolete today (if so, good). But not long ago, beating a queer to death or hanging a black guy in too many towns was simply overlooked.

Crimes that get ignored need special legislation JUST to get too many people to do the right thing.
 

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
Im with bs on this one. If you kill someone its pretty obvious you hated somethin about them. Just another law to make some politician look like he cared a little bit
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
65
behind the viewfinder
BurlyShirley said:
No more news to me than if he shot up a regular bar.
well there is at least one difference. a person wouldn't walk into a bar, order a drink, and ask a patron "is this a regular bar", then go on an unhinged rampage, would he?
 

Tenchiro

Attention K Mart Shoppers
Jul 19, 2002
5,407
0
New England
BeerDemon said:
Add a link to the original article or I'll have to remove it. You can't just steal content without some sort of credit for the original source.
He did credit it;

The Amish said:
By David A. Fahrenthold
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, February 3, 2006; Page A12
 

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
yup. After. Although I must say I hold doubts that it makes a difference. I doubt the washington post is gonna sue a bunch of internet junkies for talkin about there story on line and forgetting to mention who wrote it. Personaly i dont think I've ever look to see who wrote any of the crap I read online or in the papers. Any of you know who David fart n hold is, not likely.
 

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
But lets say a black gang member kills a white guy cause its what you have to do to be "in" is that a hate crime. Doubtfull. The aclu would never allow it. No one cares about whitey
 

kinghami3

Future Turbo Monkey
Jun 1, 2004
2,239
0
Ballard 4 life.
BurlyShirley said:
But killing someone is already a crime. Why does it matter if you "hate" them before you do it? They're the same exact amount of dead.
Because in our enlightened society we punish people to reform them, not as revenge. Killing someone because of their sexual orientation or race is considered worse because of severe overreaction to a poor motive; they were not aggravated by a personal attack by the person, but by the person's nature.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
We classify crimes into degrees of seriousness all the time. There's manslaughter, murder and wilful murder. The victim is still dead but when prosecuting the assailant we do take into account circumstances. I see hate crime legislation in the same way.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
valve bouncer said:
We classify crimes into degrees of seriousness all the time. There's manslaughter, murder and wilful murder. The victim is still dead but when prosecuting the assailant we do take into account circumstances. I see hate crime legislation in the same way.
But the delineation between degrees of murder take into account levels of intent to cause death or serious bodily harm, not the actual motive for the crime. There's no statutory delineation between "killing because a guy ****ed your wife" and "killing because you're a psycho who wants to turn your victim's skin into an article of clothing."

Of course, we DO make these distinctions, but they come in at sentencing, where motive is one of the main considerations for the punishment. I think hate crime legislation an officious psychological band-aid for society, and it speaks to the fact that we're generally not decisive enough with punishment.

However, giving a murderer a few more years in jail, especially a choad like this ****head, doesn't actually end up getting me pissed off at all...philosophically, it bothers me, but in practice, I couldn't care less.

MD
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
MikeD said:
But the delineation between degrees of murder take into account levels of intent to cause death or serious bodily harm, not the actual motive for the crime. There's no statutory delineation between "killing because a guy ****ed your wife" and "killing because you're a psycho who wants to turn your victim's skin into an article of clothing."

Of course, we DO make these distinctions, but they come in at sentencing, where motive is one of the main considerations for the punishment. I think hate crime legislation an officious psychological band-aid for society, and it speaks to the fact that we're generally not decisive enough with punishment.

However, giving a murderer a few more years in jail, especially a choad like this ****head, doesn't actually end up getting me pissed off at all...philosophically, it bothers me, but in practice, I couldn't care less.

MD
Yes you're right. Maybe a better example would be charging people under special terrorism laws instead of basic murder statutes. I think hate crime laws and terrorist specific laws are very similar in that we're saying that crimes motivated by ideology are worse than regular crimes motivated by love, greed, revenge etc.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
valve bouncer said:
I think hate crime laws and terrorist specific laws are very similar in that we're saying that crimes motivated by ideology are worse than regular crimes motivated by love, greed, revenge etc.
I'm bothered about hate crime laws myself for philosophical reasons, but I don't think that is the basis for them.

A crime motivated by ideology isn't worse, per se, than a "regular" motivation. If you kill me because I screwed your wife or because you wanted to steal or because I believe that black people shouldn't be segregated, I'm just as dead, as BS pointed out. Honor killings in the Muslim world come to mind here as well, which is a nice segue into my actual point:

An ideologically motivated crime can, if the motivation is shared by the jurors or the judge escape punishment, and I think that is where the push for hate crime legislation comes from.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
Silver said:
An ideologically motivated crime can, if the motivation is shared by the jurors or the judge escape punishment, and I think that is where the push for hate crime legislation comes from.
you mean like hanging a black man in the 1950s in the deep south?
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
LordOpie said:
you mean like hanging a black man in the 1950s in the deep south?
Or killing a gay man in a lot of the country in the 70s through 90s.

Rape shield laws would be another analogy here. I have issues with them, but I understand where they came from and why they may be needed.

This also answers the dumbass question "If a black dude kills a white man, why isn't that a hate crime?" Chances are pretty good the black guy is going to get fried. He's probably not going to have enough black racists on the jury that figure that whitey had it coming anyways. (The one case I've heard of where the black guy got away with it was OJ, and I while I think he's guilty as sin, I agreed with the verdict for other reasons.)
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
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SF
The Amish said:
But lets say a black gang member kills a white guy cause its what you have to do to be "in" is that a hate crime. Doubtfull. The aclu would never allow it. No one cares about whitey
Good fantasy. Do you want the hear the statistics about black-on-white murders, or the execution rate of black men who murder white people?
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
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SF
This is a hate crime, no doubt. But I think of it as a loser who chose a random group to attack.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
BuddhaRoadkill said:
Except, it wasn't random.
Well, he was GOING to go to the Klan meeting and kill people, but it wasn't for another two hours, and he had to kill people NOW.

It's totally understandable.

MD
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
No I dont really care about people getting sentenced for longer in murder cases in plain as day, racially motivated killings. Its just the principle of the thing. If I kill a white dude because he's white and a chinese dude because he's chinese, Ill get a longer sentence for chinese killing; which basically asserts that the life of a chinese man is worth more.
At least thats how I take it. The two crimes are the same.
On the other hand...think about hate crimes that dont involve murder. Say Im in a barfight with a guy and you know, when you're in a fight, you'll say some things that you normally wouldnt. Ive personally used some racial slurs and it almost came back to bite me when I had to stand tall in front of the man.
It wasnt a crime motivated by hate, but....well, there you go.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,258
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
BurlyShirley said:
No I dont really care about people getting sentenced for longer in murder cases in plain as day, racially motivated killings. Its just the principle of the thing. If I kill a white dude because he's white and a chinese dude because he's chinese, Ill get a longer sentence for chinese killing; which basically asserts that the life of a chinese man is worth more.
not necesarilly.
the extra years in prison "pay" for the motive, not that necesarilly because there is differential between persons worth.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,914
2,880
Pōneke
By the way, hatchet dude shot and killed a cop when he was pulled over, then the cops chased and stopped this kid and shot him. He's dead now.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/05/robida/

Robida's neighbors have described him as a racist, who decorated his room with swastikas. Robida is a graduate of New Bedford's junior police academy, a program intended to build social skills, self-esteem and self-confidence in children 12 to 14, police said.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
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SF
LordOpie said:
In his defense, the cop he killed was gay.
Good One! Enjoy another day in Purgatory for that comment (that is if you were Catholic...).
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
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SF
BurlyShirley said:
No I dont really care about people getting sentenced for longer in murder cases in plain as day, racially motivated killings. Its just the principle of the thing. If I kill a white dude because he's white and a chinese dude because he's chinese, Ill get a longer sentence for chinese killing; which basically asserts that the life of a chinese man is worth more.
At least thats how I take it. The two crimes are the same.
On the other hand...think about hate crimes that dont involve murder. Say Im in a barfight with a guy and you know, when you're in a fight, you'll say some things that you normally wouldnt. Ive personally used some racial slurs and it almost came back to bite me when I had to stand tall in front of the man.
It wasnt a crime motivated by hate, but....well, there you go.
I think Hate Crimes are separated from "Crimes of Passion". If a guy dies in a bar fight, it is different than if they take that person and lynch him or drag him behind a truck.

I think you yelled some slurs and then stab a guy, it is different if you do something rather dramatic because of his race or sexual orientation.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
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SF
BTW, I found this about the guy who was dragged behind a truck:

Some advocacy groups made an issue of this case during George W. Bush's presidential campaign in 2000. They accused him of implicit racism since as governor he opposed special hate crime legislation. Since two of the three murderers were sentenced to death and the third to a life term in prison, Governor Bush maintained that "we don't need tougher laws."
 

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
sanjuro said:
Good fantasy. Do you want the hear the statistics about black-on-white murders, or the execution rate of black men who murder white people?

Oh they all hang without a doubt. I'm just sayin I've never heard it called a hate crime, thats all.