[$tinkle]

int'l herald tribune

NIJMEGEN, The Netherlands: Five days before a national election here, the center-right government announced Friday that it planned to introduce legislation to ban burkas and similar garments in public places, saying the full- body garb worn by a small number of Muslim women in the Netherlands posed a grave security threat, both to the country's security forces and to its citizens.

The Netherlands has been considering such a move for months, in reaction to the burka and other clothing that hides the wearer's face and eyes. To some degree the government worries that a terrorist might put one on to get beyond security checks and carry out an attack.

The Dutch discussion is part of a larger European debate about how far governments can go in legislating what people - and specifically Muslim women and girls - can and cannot wear.

The fate of the proposal is highly uncertain. But if it should pass in Parliament, women would be prohibited from wearing burkas in a variety of public venues, including schools, trains, courts and even on the street.

"The cabinet finds it undesirable that face-covering clothing - including the burka - is worn in public places for reasons of public order, security and protection of citizens," Immigration Minister Rita Verdonk said Friday.

But some critics of the government critics saw the timing of the announcement as an election ploy designed to win over Dutch voters worried about ongoing tensions with some Muslim immigrants. By most estimates, fewer than 100 women in the Netherlands regularly wear a burka. That makes them very rare on the streets.

That is why some Muslims view the entire burka issue as more of a referendum on their very existence here, a suggestion government officials deny.

"It's ridiculous," said Yasar Kalkan, a Muslim auto mechanic in Leidschendam. "When you go out on the street, how many burkas do you see? None." He added that, as a minister, Verdonk "should find something better to do with her time."

Verdonk and others noted that the law would extend beyond religious garments to include helmets with full- length visors and any other article that completely covered the wearer's head and face.

Verdonk said she first learned this week that the cabinet could pursue a ban after getting a go-ahead from legal experts. They reportedly do not believe that such a ban would violate current Dutch or European Union laws regarding religious freedom.

"We want to see whom we are talking to," Verdonk said last week. "That's the way it is in the Netherlands."

Should the center-right government win the election next week and the burka ban eventually become law, it would probably qualify as the most restrictive legislation of its kind passed in Europe.

The Netherlands is still reeling from the murder in 2004 of the filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a Dutch-Moroccan Muslim fundamentalist.

But it is not alone in seeking to restrict some forms of Muslim dress.

Several other European countries have passed laws or won court decisions that limit certain types of clothing in certain places.

For instance, in France, the hijab, the head scarf worn by many Muslim girls and women, and other conspicuous religious symbols are banned from schools.

Britain's highest court ruled earlier this year that a secondary school was within its rights to bar a female student from wearing a jilbab, a loose, ankle- length gown, instead of the regular school uniform.

The former British foreign secretary, Jack Straw, recently caused a stir by saying he wanted Muslim women to abandon the full-face veil - a view endorsed by Prime Minister Tony Blair.

At the Vatican this week, Cardinal Renato Martino said Muslims must abide by the laws of the European countries in which they live.

Immigrants of other religions "must respect the traditions, symbols, culture and religion of the countries they move to," said Martino, head of the Vatican's Council for Justice and Peace, in response to a question about the use of the veil.

"It seems elementary to me and it is highly justified that authorities demand it," he said.

About one million Muslims live in the Netherlands, about 6 percent of the population.

any monkeys better get out now.

 

[JohnE]

Its going to get worse before it gets better...

 

[valve bouncer]

Bannings in school or on the job? Can be argued both ways, fair enough. Banning outright? No sorry, people should be allowed to wear what they want, decency notwithstanding.

 

[Batman]

No sorry, people should be allowed to wear what they want, decency notwithstanding.

Not when what they're being raised to wear is completely discriminatory. I am in full support of banning full face coverings....this is about rights as a human, not religious rights. A society should be able to choose what is acceptable and what is not...not a religion. It's a step for humanity the day full-face coverings are banned.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Not when what they're being raised to wear is completely discriminatory. I am in full support of banning full face coverings....this is about rights as a human, not religious rights. A society should be able to choose what is acceptable and what is not...not a religion. It's a step for humanity the day full-face coverings are banned.

What if someone *wants* to wear a full-face covering? For fashion reasons... Are you telling me that everybody who wears those coverings doesn't want to?

 

[JRogers]

Not when what they're being raised to wear is completely discriminatory. I am in full support of banning full face coverings....this is about rights as a human, not religious rights. A society should be able to choose what is acceptable and what is not...not a religion. It's a step for humanity the day full-face coverings are banned.

There is no government law in the Netherlands that says individuals have to wear the burqa; they have a choice in the matter- whatever inequality exists is essentially self-imposed.

Creating a law that bans it, however, does infringe on rights and choice.

 

[LordOpie]

What if someone *wants* to wear a full-face covering? For fashion reasons... Are you telling me that everybody who wears those coverings doesn't want to?

or what if a woman wants to wear it for religious reasons? Or her family insists? If she's oppressed, she also has the freedom given by most countries to tell her family to fvck off.


What's next? No little hats for jews or bling for xtians?

Absolutely retarded.


I'm starting to hate governments... leave us alone!

 

[Mani_UT]

Bannings in school or on the job? Can be argued both ways, fair enough. Banning outright? No sorry, people should be allowed to wear what they want, decency notwithstanding.

I fail to see how bannings burkas is different from banning full nudity in the street. If I am to let people follow their standard no matter how offensive to me, it should work both ways.

 

[valve bouncer]

I fail to see how bannings burkas is different from banning full nudity in the street. If I am to let people follow their standard no matter how offensive to me, it should work both ways.

Bloody hell, how did I miss the glaring and obvious similarity between the burka and full nudity.

But you're right, I think popped collars and wearing your baseball cap backwards is an abomination.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Bloody hell, how did I miss the glaring and obvious similarity between the burka and full nudity.

But you're right, I think popped collars and wearing your baseball cap backwards is an abomination.

Remember - he *is* from Utah.