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New at Ellsworth...

Arm@ndo

Chimp
Jul 27, 2005
17
0
Just getting around to catch up on '06 stuff and thought I'd spew here too, so bare with me for a minute...

I got to chatting with a couple of bike shop owners, then visited some virtual booths and saw some interesting stuff from the Ellsworth camp.
I try to keep up with the R&D at Ellsworth every now and then.
As you can see...

http://content.mtbr.com/TRD_12_212crx.aspx

...they are ditching the Id and offering the Epiphany. Ok, whatever...
Then the Distance... why bother, when you have a Truth, an Epiphany AND a Moment, jeeeez !
Why? how? the Distance seems to be a waste of time.
Then, there's the fresh looking Chaos replacing the Joker so as to compete directly with the Heckler. That's a tough order, as Santa Cruz put a platform coil shock on the frame and hit money shot with this bike, period ! Now, for a so-called stepped-up version of the Heckler there's the Nomad... I can't wait to get my leg over one of those and confirm/dispel the hype.
Back to Ellsworth...
The Rogue, keep an eye out on this model, which is basically a revamped version of the 2000 / 2001 Dare. Basically, a simple and solid all-mountain rig that you can pedal.
I speculate that Ellsworth is trying to hold sales by throwing together a traditional style frame until they put the finishing touches on the new Dare. So, although this is a "less expensive looking" version of the trivoid extruded anodized and laser etched triangle that made the Dare so sexy, I can't call it any less capable, just not as pretty, and that's a pity.
It is unfortunate that they've been cutting costs on the Dare frame already into production of the '04s, now reducing it into the butted Rogue frame, but ultimately failing to pass on the savings to their customers. Rogue frame set cost $2,400 ? what's up with that ???
Maybe this effort is a supplemental lifeline supporting the R&D effort which has brought on a completely redesigned Dare that is a drastic departure from the traditional look and that is now offering a flashy single pivot design featuring an internal transmission..
Apparently, tho' not confirmed, I heard that they've signed a partnership with the transmission designer/vendor and will make it a proprietary feature.

I dunno, aside from the new Dare experiment, it seems like they're making a full circle and at this point they are half way around it before realizing that they may be spreading themselves thin (ie, the Distance) rather than focusing on their bread and butter core products using the ICT linkage which has proved to be successful over the years... but what do I know, I'm not the one feeling pressure from Santa Cruz nor Specialized and do have a personal opinion to voice.

I would be interested in commentary from any of you, especially from any who attended InterBike '05 and had a chance to spend time at the Ellsworth booth and schmooze with others in general.
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,407
102
MA
OOOOHHHHHHHHH BOY, Here we go!!!


I'm going to give a pre-:stosh: to how this thread will end up going


BTW, reading that made my head hurt
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,257
7
Reno 911
"Tony Ellsworth is developing new and exciting ways to make bikes break......."

From a design standpoint I've always liked their bikes. Too bad they blow up so regularly
 

Jesus

Monkey
Jun 12, 2002
583
0
Louisville, KY
Ellsworth has a long record of screwing people over, and outright lying in his marketing. So your not gonna get a lot of love on this board about that asshat.

But I agree that the SC Nomad looks mighty interesting!
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
10,770
2,922
AK
One interesting point about the rogue; To get the "different" versions TE has simply put a different length shock on them, so you end up with some pretty wierd geometry variations, because all the frame parts are exactly the same.
 

Jesus

Monkey
Jun 12, 2002
583
0
Louisville, KY
Jm_ said:
One interesting point about the rogue; To get the "different" versions TE has simply put a different length shock on them, so you end up with some pretty wierd geometry variations, because all the frame parts are exactly the same.
Not surprised at all...
 

Instigator

ass balancer
Aug 22, 2001
861
0
Rochester, NY
I have owned many ellsworth bikes in the past. As luck would have it I never kept them long enough to break. I have for the most part loved the way they ride. At least 4 people locally have had frames break and warranty issues have not been to bad. One person had, still has, an Isis 2 swingarms and 1 front triangle later he still rides it. At least one of those times shipping the swingarm to him was a long wait. Another person had a Dare, whole new frame in 1 week. At least 2 friend had there truths break and there was a wait for parts, but they where honored. Then there is the life time warranty. Bull**** to Tony! Life time to him is when any one of his models changes. Back when the truth changed from bushings to bearings it wasn't even 6 months later and you could not get parts, but you could pay a heft some of money and get an upgrade to the new frame.
Ok, back on track here.

Distance= only average priced bike in the lineup. single pivot, 5" travel.

Truth= bread & butter of the lineup. $2000 for an xc frame. rediculous claims in their ads.

Dare= We know they break. If Tony decides to go from a 4-bar to a single pivot he better at least put a floater on it. Original rumors were it was just a one off build for the show. $2500 still and it has less machined parts.

Specialist= $1000 for a hardtail? no thanks.

Rogue= First smart thing I have seen in a long time from them. Dreamride was trying to buy the rights to make theold dare frame since its demise. Price again, no thanks.

Thats enough for now. oh and I own a 2005 Dare frame and no I didn't even come remotely close to paying full price.

Have a nice day.
 

Arm@ndo

Chimp
Jul 27, 2005
17
0
hahh, interesting commentary... I re-read my post and I agree, I did sound like a total fcknut. But what the hell, it's all good.
I'm not to up on forums and the net chit-chatting but I gather that there's a strong dislike for TE and the Ellsworth products...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not here looking to get loving remarks about Ellsworth or the man behind the company. I just set out to voice an opinion and gather that of anyone willing to give it, regardless of it's colour.
So far, I've had good luck with my Dare. I ride hard up here in the Pacific Northwest and British Columbia, where were used to some pretty rugged style of riding under most conditions.
Maybe it's luck, but I've really enjoyed the bike and until something goes abnormally wrong, I can't really join a hate wagon.

thx for chippin' in...
 

Tonycalves

Monkey
Feb 16, 2005
140
0
PB SanDiego/NYC
Nomad is worth it tested 1 at the dirt demo, my roommate just picked upa 06 enduro expert another awsome bike. 2 do anything bikes, climb it then bomb it. I'd prowdly own either 1. I feel the same way about the Ellsworths nice bike designs but SNAP. So they suck. Had a 2000 Dare nice but it broke leaning hard into a corner. They also trying a gearbox bike, looks so stupid.
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
3,650
858
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
the fact is that the new fr ellsworth looks utterly crappy, and for years now tony has been using misleading marketing, false performance claims, taiwan labor-with us made prices. and on top of that everybody knows someone who's broken one or two or more. wether or not the frames were warrentied show me another company that has had such a high percentage of its frames break. see you can't ellsworth is in my opinion one of the worst bike companies out there they are worse than Trek Specialized and even dean! thats my opinion feel free to disagree but at least think about it if you think of all the broken frames you've heard about i'm sure you will agree.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,411
0
SF
Arm@ndo said:
hahh, interesting commentary... I re-read my post and I agree, I did sound like a total fcknut. But what the hell, it's all good.
I'm not to up on forums and the net chit-chatting but I gather that there's a strong dislike for TE and the Ellsworth products...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not here looking to get loving remarks about Ellsworth or the man behind the company. I just set out to voice an opinion and gather that of anyone willing to give it, regardless of it's colour.
So far, I've had good luck with my Dare. I ride hard up here in the Pacific Northwest and British Columbia, where were used to some pretty rugged style of riding under most conditions.
Maybe it's luck, but I've really enjoyed the bike and until something goes abnormally wrong, I can't really join a hate wagon.

thx for chippin' in...
Good response to a bit of criticism. Most of the posters here are pretty knowledgeable, and won't need a product release to know about the 2006 bikes.

Ellsworth does also receive a bit of criticism as well, so this was a loaded topic for a new RM.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
10,770
2,922
AK
What ellsworth really needs to do is design a new 5-6" travel all-mountain bike :D They've got the Id, the Moment, the Distance, the Epiphany, the 6" rougue, the 5 and 6" travel verions of the chaos, but it just feels lacking without another bike covering the same riding genre. :D
 

JK:UK

Chimp
Apr 17, 2004
79
0
UK
this is so tiring, coming onto US forums and hearing constant crap talked about T.E. and Ellsworth Bikes.

My only ever Ellsworth is a Specialist. Everyone who has ridden it has sighed once they got on their own bikes again.

There is simply nothing like it. I abuse it, it hasn't given up.

Ellsworth doesn't have a bad reputation in the UK, except from the forum kids who've wasted their days reading MTBR, or other garbage. Next fall might be time to replace my DH bike, but hopefully a new FR bike before then.

Bikes to consider are Nomad (ugly as sin), Enduro, Intense 6.6, Ellsworth Moment. The Ellsworth and Nomad just scored 10/10 in UK tests, and the Moment looks considerably better. There are more good experiences with the bikes even with warranty, as our distibutor strives to help.

I've ridden several Ellsworths, they all feel SPOT ON. i'm just sick of kids who have no experience of the bikes believing some other fool who has no experience of the bikes and spouting **** all over a forum.
 

offtheedge

Monkey
Aug 26, 2005
955
0
LB
The 05 Dare is far from sh!t. I just got back from 5 days in moab and beating it down. Climbing, bombing DH and big drops and it never whimpered once. It is IMO the most capable all mountain DH frame i've ridden. Tony on the other hand, well I dont know the guy or haven't had to deal with the CS but I've been able to let this bike loose and hang on.

And lets be honest here, the MTB industry as a whole is hype driven.

Oh and just a note here, two guys in the test of metal were ridding older Dare frames. I assume the contest got it's name since all the drops are from rock to rock.....no soft landings.
 

Arm@ndo

Chimp
Jul 27, 2005
17
0
it's all about disseminating the truth, regardless of it's pain...

and of course, all pain goes away with a pint of Shakespeare Stout :drool:
 

Arm@ndo

Chimp
Jul 27, 2005
17
0
Downhiller said:
so what, new DARE is "sh.i.t" i mean i never hear anything good about it..
Here lies a problem... hearing is good but feeling is believing...

Trust me, in the 2 full seasons of riding Whistler, Shore and the usual stuff if anything were to go wrong with my Dare outside of normal wear and tear, I will not hesitate to communicate it ;)
 

maxyedor

<b>TOOL PRO</b>
Oct 20, 2005
3,650
858
In the bathroom, fighting a battle
jk:uk I'm sorry that kids in your area are jaded by our criticism of ellsworth but it is not because, for me anyway, I started out hating them infact I worked for what was at the time one of their largest dealers, they left us out to dry on so many things on the distibuter side of things it was rediculous, not to say that other companies don't screw shops over, they just make up for it by delivering an unquestionable product. ellsworth on the other hand does not stand behind their frames and makes eronious claims as to their quality. I do agree that the industry is driven by hype, for instance the SC nomad, it has been getting rave reveiws from every bike mag and their moms, but it delivers on the hype, and SC is a decent reputable company, and one of those companies that you couldn't pay me to ride. So it's not that I make statements about companies because I am an uninforned brat it is because I am well aware of all of the ins and outs of the bike industry, as I imagine most of the other monkeys are, and which companies treat their customers like crap. If you own an Ellsworth frame and it seems to work well for you great but for the vast majority they just don't come through. If you want to buy with full confidence there are a few companies that help out the shops, and the consumer in any way that tey can, Foes, Mountain Cycle, Moots, Versus, VooDoo, Ventana, and there are bound to be more but these are companies that I have personaly delt with and although they do have great quality control occasionaly they do have issues and they will go out of their way, next day air ship hand deliver ect., to fix any situation that arises.

sorry for the diatribe there but that is my opinion and anybody who disagrees, thats cool, but for the majority we like to buy from companies that stand behind their product 100 percent.