New bike teaser
- Thread starter Tantrum Cycles
- Start date
breakin in the mule...ha, breakin in my ass....this bike is fUN. Crazy how well it turns with 63 deg HT. The 429 mm stays help, but I credit the wheel size difference. The back just follows the front and the front goes where you point it. All the "wagon wheel" feel is gone. Except that it rolls over stuff with impunity
I setup my bike as a b6-er for a while and I didn't like it in corners. Horses for courses I guess.
What didn't you like about it? What was the original setup?
Still waiting for powder coater on the production frames (go figure). But I did bring another frame back with me. That one is done
Purple Haze (I'm sure somebody's using that)...
Purple Haze (I'm sure somebody's using that)...
In that sense, it's kind of a ride for people that are used to 29ers, not so much those that are used to smaller bikes. A 29er will take a hit in the turns and jumps no doubt and you'll still have a little of this effect with a "mixer" IMO, but one of the best advantages of a 29er when going downhill or in tech is the amazing roll-over and resistance to wheel-catchers, which I Think comes from the front wheel, and those used to 29ers would find this bike quicker and more maneuverable, splitting the difference IMO. The hard marketing part is that most people are not looking for a 29er or "better 29er" in this category, they are generally looking for the smaller wheels.
first it was controversial statutes, now controversial bikes? when will this madness end?!
When the second Civil War happens between the 26", 27.5" and 29" wheels... It's coming!
I think the marketing challenge is that people just don't want mixed wheels. They complain about having different size tires. Or maybe it looks funny.
Bottom line for me, it rolls over stuff like a 29er. Seems more nimble than the 27.5 version. Even at 63 degrees HT. the back just follows the front. And the feeling of a "29er" in terms of handling is gone.
And where does that leave us illegitimate offspring bastards with mixed wheel bikes?
Well, if war happens, I'll fire up the ole Martha Lee
Agree. The DVO stuff is sexy as hell.
sorry, I still chuckle at "murdered out". In the olden days we called it "black"
but the raw frame.....don't see that in carbon.......
Wait till I get the Garnet dropper on....nice looking kit
Delivered my first frame, L in Illusion Black, before offing to Eurobike.
WTF?? Am I
a bike company now?
WTF?? Am I
I've never owned a bike that didn't feel better with two similarly sized wheels on it. always 24/24 or 24/26 or 26/26, but the mixed didn't work for me in DH nor XC. I'm glad it works for you, and I've seen other people do it, but I don't think it hasn't taken off because of marketing.
Yeah, back in the day Trek and others called them 69'ers FFS! That was all made up specifically for marketing and they never caught on. Sometimes marketing wins (29 cross country) sometimes it doesn't (29 DH, 69'er).
Have you ever ridden a motocross bike? They do not feel better with equal wheel size. Yes, different animal, but we went through all kinds of wheel size experiments back in the olden days. From 18", 19", 21", 23" front before settling back to 21". From 18" to 19" to 17" rear before settling back to 18".
The difference in wheel size is important. I'm not saying I have it dialed, but 29/26 is too big of a difference. I also think the bike and geo need to be tuned to optimize it
To say that the different wheel sizes were all done for marketing is not true. Every bike company has talented, enthusiast designers that are also great riders. they had an idea and pushed to get it produced. Probably had to convince marketing. But just because their idea didn't fly doesn't make it bad. Maybe it was execution. Maybe detail design. Maybe marketing and/or consumer acceptance.
This story is far from over....
That discussion leaves out too many variables. Geometry is a big one. We struggled with seat height thru the increase in travel. My last MXer (a Maico, ok, I'm old) had 13-3/4 inches of rear travel. I had to put a rock under my foot on the starting line.The bigger the wheel, the bigger the problem. Not as big of a problem in front.
Right now, I have a 29", 160 mm rear end in the works. Guess what? Same problem. I cannot make the CS as short or the BB as low as a similar design with 27.5 rear. that big wheel has to have somewhere to go. Up your ass if you're not careful.
The gyro effects are also important.
more later. I've been doing a lot of testing and have no horse in this race. I make all 32 versions, so I don't care which one everybody picks. I'm just interested in developing the concept, because I think execution of this is pretty minimal to date.
I think you become a bike company when you start processing warranties, ask Evil.
Seriously though, good luck, I'll stop by at Interbike.
This. Even though design and development has it's own problems, it doesn't hold a candle to annoyed/angry/whatever else customers. There's legitimate problems, then there's just dealing with people being people....and you just scratch your head.
Man, you had to be a buzzkill, didn't you? Believe me, I am very aware that this will happen. i know there will be defects. I know people will push the bike beyond its intended limits, intentionally or not. Shit's gonna break.
As for Evil, I did as much research as I could on that. While in Taiwan, I tried to pry into their suppliers, etc, to make sure I wasn't going to end up with the same vendors/problems, which very nearly could have been the case.
I think I have a couple things going for me.
1) this is personal. Tantrum isn't beholden to shareholders, beancounters or anybody else. I started Tantrum to give people the chance to enjoy my creations. Make money? Sure, but that's not what's driving me. To paraphrase a local gun shop owner (who ironically was shot in his own gun store by an angry customer), "I don't sell bikes to make money, I just like to sell bikes"
2) Much smaller initial quantities than Evil started with. One of the advantages of no money....
Stop by at Interbike. I got a great location in the "Incubator" section, #12255, second booth on the left after you walk in the main entrance.
ya.
I got some love from Magura at Eurobike when they asked if they could feature the bike on the Best of Show feed.
After the show, the bike was picked up by Kickstarter backer #1. Unleash the hounds, they're in the wild...
After the show, the bike was picked up by Kickstarter backer #1. Unleash the hounds, they're in the wild...
Life in production
Trying to deliver more frames, only to find undersized split reducer bushings for the CS/SS pivot. I can't have that and can't ship like that. Burned a little lathe oil to bang out a few sets
Trying to deliver more frames, only to find undersized split reducer bushings for the CS/SS pivot. I can't have that and can't ship like that. Burned a little lathe oil to bang out a few sets
cable spaghetti... 
Oh ya. I used the excuse that I left everything long so the customer could do what he wanted. Some of that is true.cable spaghetti...
More of the truth is that the bike got put together just in time to take apart, stuff in a box and head to the airport after working all nite. Brake and dropper cables got cut once, left long. No way was I gonna get into brake hose shortening....
I was lucky I got the bike in the box at all. I apologized to the guy that got it, but he was happy. He was the first backer and will have it dialed.
I had to build another mule. The frames came in primer white, so I said what the hell. It looks so good I might have to offer it. I call it Accidental White
Going to be at cyclofest (Charlotte, NC) this year?
Frames looking good. I agree with Dumb about branding, could do w more subtle stuff for us low key folk.