[Tantrum Cycles]

We should require a video of each reviewer sending it so that we can judge them and determine if they are a dentist or some other form of monocle Joey before accepting their review . They should also have to tell us what other bikes they have ridden recently so we know what they are comparing against. Anyone willing to buy a bike sight unseen raises red flags for me.

I know a lot of riders who tell me how great their Special-ed Endurbro is but when I ride one of those things it feels like poo.

PS I'm still waiting for the Bay Area demo to get scheduled!

True, it's all in context. Including paid media reviews. A quick perusal of owner reviews of ANY brand shows about 90% positive, 4 or 5 stars. If you don't know the guy, who cares? But the network of happy owners is growing. I do give the BC guys a little more cred. I've ridden some of the stuff they are riding and some of it's not for the timid. This guy did mention his Tallboy LC as a climbing comparo and his Intense 951 EVO for DH reference. From my demo rides, I 've seen mostly yetis, pivots, SC, Intense, in terms of customers that demoed before buying mine. Probably half the KS buyers got demo rides before hand (and I rode their bikes).

Buy a bike unseen?? sure. From a company that does not exist??? Paid in full up front?? With the history of kickstarter frauds and failures??

All I can say is thank you. I will have the remaining KS frames delivered within a few weeks. Late?? fuck yes. But I'll feel relieved when I get em out the door.

Then I get to go demo riding again. NorCal?? Unfulfilled last year. I need to get out of Dodge (Indiana) for extended periods in Jan-Mar. Once the dust settles on my frame deliveries, I'll set up demos again. And I'm holding back some sweet builds for the bikes....

 

[rockofullr]

NorCal?? Unfulfilled last year.

There's a lot of dentists and tech bros out here dropping $$$$$ to have the next best thing before anyone else. If I were selling bikes I'd want to be selling them out here. Might not gain traction cause no carbonium and no $10,000 price tag though.

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

There's a lot of dentists and tech bros out here dropping $$$$$ to have the next best thing before anyone else. If I were selling bikes I'd want to be selling them out here. Might not gain traction cause no carbonium and no $10,000 price tag though.

Not to mention some great riding I've never touched. After doing demos in SoCal last year, I came to the conclusion I could could just camp out in Laguna, Mt Wilson or Simi Valley areas and sell every bike I could make. Tons of terrain and tons of riders. With money.

No carbonium is a bit of an issue. I priced my Ortho model at around $7200, with every silly expensive part I could think of. One guy told me it wasn't expensive enough. So he bought a frame. He was fast though. And he stopped worrying about carbon when he rode the bike.

I had quite a few requests from Norcal last year. Santa Cruz and other places. Where would your choice be?

 

[FlipSide]

Anyone willing to buy a bike sight unseen raises red flags for me.

I understand the reasoning, but I personally have never tried a bike before purchasing it. Actually, I have tried very few bikes in my life and I am very monobike-ous. I only ride my personal bikes until it's time to change one, then I purchase another one without trying it. I find it's actually part of the fun to analyze the geometries and figure out what I need/want, while dodging the marketing traps layed out by the Lizards on Pinkbike.

The other thing is that the only demo bike I've ever tried felt like complete shit. It was a Gen1 2014 Pivot Mach6c, and I wanted to compare it with my 1 year old Mach5.7c, which I liked very much (still do). I'm sure the Mach6 is a great bike, but my 5.7 is so dialed that I could not get to the bottom of the run fast enough to get that oversprung POS back to the demo booth and get back to the awesomeness of my personal bike. It takes time to setup a bike well and I don't have time to waste on poorly setup demo bikes.

Now that the price of good bikes have nearly doubled, I may need to try before buying the next bike since I'm usually in between sizes at 5'7" and the new school geometries with longer reach makes me wonder if I should opt for the small or the medium.

 

[dump]

I have only ever purchased one bike by trying it first... most has been over the internet or craigslist. Those few bikes that didn't work out were re-sold in short order. I have also never purchased a bike new fwiw.

 

[dump]

There's a lot of dentists and tech bros out here dropping $$$$$ to have the next best thing before anyone else. If I were selling bikes I'd want to be selling them out here. Might not gain traction cause no carbonium and no $10,000 price tag though.

Please let it be so that tech-bros aren't the new influx into the sport. I can see it now ... iMTBs

 

[FlipSide]

I have only ever purchased one bike by trying it first... most has been over the internet or craigslist. Those few bikes that didn't work out were re-sold in short order. I have also never purchased a bike new fwiw.

Didn't you buy a new Imperial about 15 years ago?

 

[dump]

Didn't you buy a new Imperial about 15 years ago?

Oh... that was a sov... yes, it was new... but I didn't buy it ... was an exchange for work. still have it! and it was 12 years ago

 

[rockofullr]

Not to mention some great riding I've never touched. After doing demos in SoCal last year, I came to the conclusion I could could just camp out in Laguna, Mt Wilson or Simi Valley areas and sell every bike I could make. Tons of terrain and tons of riders. With money.

No carbonium is a bit of an issue. I priced my Ortho model at around $7200, with every silly expensive part I could think of. One guy told me it wasn't expensive enough. So he bought a frame. He was fast though. And he stopped worrying about carbon when he rode the bike.

I had quite a few requests from Norcal last year. Santa Cruz and other places. Where would your choice be?

Yup Cali is where the money is. For better or worse. It's also a really nice place to live with year round riding.

I'd recommend Santa Cruz, Marin (specifically Fairfax near Tamarancho), or Joaquin Miller Park in Oakland. I've been going to a ton of bike demos to get the feel for the new crop of bikes in anticipation of buying a bike and the best demo location so far was Joaquin Miller. You can park your demo bikes in the middle of the park and it has a number of short loops of varying difficulty and trail type. There's beginner trails, fast and loose trails, flowy trails, and even a super rough trail to really put a bike through it's paces. Perfect place to get the feel for a bike in an hour or two.

Please let it be so that tech-bros aren't the new influx into the sport. I can see it now ... iMTBs

Bro. They already are bro.

I understand the reasoning, but I personally have never tried a bike before purchasing it

How do you know what you like then?

The other thing is that the only demo bike I've ever tried felt like complete shit. It was a Gen1 2014 Pivot Mach6c, and I wanted to compare it with my 1 year old Mach5.7c, which I liked very much (still do).

You can't really compare a demo against your bike that you have been dialing in for 3 years but you can compare it against the other demo bikes you ride. You can get the idea. One bike corners well, one bike plows well, one bike likes to pop off of everything, etc.

Now that the price of good bikes have nearly doubled, I may need to try before buying the next bike since I'm usually in between sizes at 5'7" and the new school geometries with longer reach makes me wonder if I should opt for the small or the medium.

Sizing is one of the main reasons I've been demoing bikes recently. I'm 5'11" and have always ridden mediums but they feel short at top speed so I've been demoing mostly larges to see how it feels.

It's also nice to confirm for myself things I already assumed as true. Such as, fat tires suck, 29ers aren't for me (unless it's short travel in a med), Specialized Enduros feel horrible.

 

[FlipSide]

How do you know what you like then?

I don't and I agree it led to some mistakes. In retrospective, I should have bought a Balfa BB7 in 2002 instead of a 2Step...and a Devinci Wilson instead of a Frantik in 2007. I also never really got along very well with my 2006 Giant Trance. Basically, you are right, but there's something irrationnal and fun about having a blind date with your new bike.

You can't really compare a demo against your bike that you have been dialing in for 3 years but you can compare it against the other demo bikes you ride. You can get the idea. One bike corners well, one bike plows well, one bike likes to pop off of everything, etc.

Good point!

Sizing is one of the main reasons I've been demoing bikes recently. I'm 5'11" and have always ridden mediums but they feel short at top speed so I've been demoing mostly larges to see how it feels.

It's also nice to confirm for myself things I already assumed as true. Such as, fat tires suck, 29ers aren't for me (unless it's short travel in a med), Specialized Enduros feel horrible.

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

The other thing is that the only demo bike I've ever tried felt like complete shit. It was a Gen1 2014 Pivot Mach6c, and I wanted to compare it with my 1 year old Mach5.7c, which I liked very much (still do). I'm sure the Mach6 is a great bike, but my 5.7 is so dialed that I could not get to the bottom of the run fast enough to get that oversprung POS back to the demo booth and get back to the awesomeness of my personal bike. It takes time to setup a bike well and I don't have time to waste on poorly setup demo bikes.

Now that the price of good bikes have nearly doubled, I may need to try before buying the next bike since I'm usually in between sizes at 5'7" and the new school geometries with longer reach makes me wonder if I should opt for the small or the medium.

this is kinda weird. I had a customer with a mach 5.7. They demoed all of the new pivot options and didn't like the handling at all. It sounded like they changed geo or something and completely changed the character of the bike. Note, I am not saying this from personal experience (although I did ride his 5.7), just my interpretation of his comments. It made him hang on to his 5.7, at least until he rode a Tantrum.

I still don't get the complaints about poorly setup demo bikes. The demo guys (me) should have plenty of reference and adjustment to dial in the fork and shock, maybe TP. Certainly there are fit issues, but I've had oversized guys on M sized bikes and still managed to get them comfortable enough to understand the bike. I can't help but think it's lazy demo crews.

Size is another thing altogether. I'm kinda lucky, at 5'11", I can get comfy on my S at 400 mm R, the M at 440, or the L at 470. For me, the L is just unnecessarily long and I lose standover, so I stick with the M. My wife is 5'8", I have her on a S, but if she knew how to ride scary stuff, she might fit on an M. Funny thing about the S....3 years ago it was an M with a longer stem and ST.

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

[QUOTE="FlipSide, post: 4244634, member: 588"there's something irrationnal and fun about having a blind date with your new _______


[/QUOTE]

fixed

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

Please let it be so that tech-bros aren't the new influx into the sport. I can see it now ... iMTBs

I got the App/

my other day job was heavily automotive, so I still keep up. All the rage is self driving cars. With occasional mention of a self driving motorcycle. The geeks that design this stuff think there might be a market for self driving motorcycles. I guess so you can ride on the back....ride while shitfaced and passed out???

I keep waiting for the autonomous bicycle to appear. To play on your VR goggles in your recliner. With automatic heart/lung/muscle actuators to give you the full aerobic and muscular benefit. Without the risk or trouble. Auto posting to strava. Fuck, what have I just done. Better at least get a patent on it so S can sue me. Somebody stop me

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

Yup Cali is where the money is. For better or worse. It's also a really nice place to live with year round riding.

I'd recommend Santa Cruz, Marin (specifically Fairfax near Tamarancho), or Joaquin Miller Park in Oakland. I've been going to a ton of bike demos to get the feel for the new crop of bikes in anticipation of buying a bike and the best demo location so far was Joaquin Miller. You can park your demo bikes in the middle of the park and it has a number of short loops of varying difficulty and trail type. There's beginner trails, fast and loose trails, flowy trails, and even a super rough trail to really put a bike through it's paces. Perfect place to get the feel for a bike in an hour or two.

When the entire state isn't on fire....My son is in Santa Barbara and my best friend/best man in Burbank. Surrounded but not on fire.

Out of the trails you recommend, anything steep and rocky?? Not that I need that, but those demos are always the most dramatic, both up and down.

I'm considering maybe going to Sea Otter early or stay late and do demos in the general NorCal area, even though I'd like to do some sooner.

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

You can't really compare a demo against your bike that you have been dialing in for 3 years but you can compare it against the other demo bikes you ride. You can get the idea. One bike corners well, one bike plows well, one bike likes to pop off of everything, etc.

What I discovered in my year of demoing is that it's much better to demo on the rider's home trails. When you know every root, turn, jump and rock, it's easier to compare. I've seen it time and time again (and felt it personally riding other's bikes). On strange trails, you don't really have a point of reference. How hard is that climb? How sketchy is the descent. Sure, you can compare different bikes for a few laps maybe, depending on how long and how fit you are. But then you are just going to be more comfortable each run anyway. And you'll never be as aggressive as on your home trail. If you know the trail by heart, it's much easier.

If you can't demo on your own trails, at least have your own bike there to compare. But I guess if they won't set it up for you....

 

[ianjenn]

When the entire state isn't on fire....My son is in Santa Barbara and my best friend/best man in Burbank. Surrounded but not on fire.

Out of the trails you recommend, anything steep and rocky?? Not that I need that, but those demos are always the most dramatic, both up and down.

I'm considering maybe going to Sea Otter early or stay late and do demos in the general NorCal area, even though I'd like to do some sooner.

Steep and rocky? Just do Santa Barbara the trails drop 4000 feet over 4 or so miles and are like 90% rock....

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

Steep and rocky? Just do Santa Barbara the trails drop 4000 feet over 4 or so miles and are like 90% rock....

SB is on the list. My son moved there recently and is doing the recon.

But I still need to go further north. Bay area, SC, Marin

 

[rockofullr]

When the entire state isn't on fire....My son is in Santa Barbara and my best friend/best man in Burbank. Surrounded but not on fire.

Out of the trails you recommend, anything steep and rocky?? Not that I need that, but those demos are always the most dramatic, both up and down.

The largest concentration of good trails including some steep and technical trails (more roots and ruts than rocks) is in Santa Cruz. The problem is that the best riding is up behind the UCSC campus and it's a long pedal to get there from any easy spots to set up a demo. The other issue is that most of the trails are not on the map if you get what i mean.

I'd really recommend JMP in Oakland again. The trails are on the short side but that lends itself to getting a few laps in on different bikes and different setups. One of the trails there is about as hairy as I'd want to get without a DH rig. It's just a series of high speed water bars dropping you into rocks and roots and ruts. There's also a few steep and rocky technical climbs that I personally can't clean and have only seen cleaned a few times.

Best of all it's a quick drive from many parts of the bay. The only reason to avoid it is that it's pretty busy on the weekend but that would work in your favor, getting you seen by more people.

I'm considering maybe going to Sea Otter early or stay late and do demos in the general NorCal area, even though I'd like to do some sooner

I do Sea Otter every year. Keep me posted.

If you can't demo on your own trails, at least have your own bike there to compare. But I guess if they won't set it up for you....

That would be ideal but I think most people on here have been riding long enough to know how they preform on new trails and to judge a bike based on that. I think a non-ideal demo is better than never riding the bike at all. For example I was demoing the new Nomad in SC recently and I was on trails I hadn't ridden before. But I could still tell the bike was amazing. Hands down one of the best cornering bikes I have ever ridden. But I also realize that I was on trails that couldn't push the bike to it's limits (riding with my girlfriend on mellow flowy stuff). I still managed to send it off a few features and get deep into the travel but no high speed breaking bumps or gnarly rock gardens. You just have to be aware of where you are and what the trails are like.

P.S. You gotta update your web page! You can get something that looks more professional from Square Space for a few bucks a month. This is what your home page looks like from my machine.

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

The largest concentration of good trails including some steep and technical trails (more roots and ruts than rocks) is in Santa Cruz. The problem is that the best riding is up behind the UCSC campus and it's a long pedal to get there from any easy spots to set up a demo. The other issue is that most of the trails are not on the map if you get what i mean.

I'd really recommend JMP in Oakland again. The trails are on the short side but that lends itself to getting a few laps in on different bikes and different setups. One of the trails there is about as hairy as I'd want to get without a DH rig. It's just a series of high speed water bars dropping you into rocks and roots and ruts. There's also a few steep and rocky technical climbs that I personally can't clean and have only seen cleaned a few times.

Best of all it's a quick drive from many parts of the bay. The only reason to avoid it is that it's pretty busy on the weekend but that would work in your favor, getting you seen by more people.

I do Sea Otter every year. Keep me posted.

That would be ideal but I think most people on here have been riding long enough to know how they preform on new trails and to judge a bike based on that. I think a non-ideal demo is better than never riding the bike at all. For example I was demoing the new Nomad in SC recently and I was on trails I hadn't ridden before. But I could still tell the bike was amazing. Hands down one of the best cornering bikes I have ever ridden. But I also realize that I was on trails that couldn't push the bike to it's limits (riding with my girlfriend on mellow flowy stuff). I still managed to send it off a few features and get deep into the travel but no high speed breaking bumps or gnarly rock gardens. You just have to be aware of where you are and what the trails are like.

P.S. You gotta update your web page! You can get something that looks more professional from Square Space for a few bucks a month. This is what your home page looks like from my machine.

View attachment 127257

I will take your advice once I figure out when to get up there. I might wait till Sea Otter time, just cuz. Might bring the motorhome and do a tour. Play music, ride my bike. I'll post it here and elsewhere once I get sorted.

Of course you're right about the demo riding. I've just gotten spoiled by the absolute slap you in the face effect when I have people swap over from their own bike, on their own trails. And immediately feel more comfortable and more capable. That tough climb hat gives you fits or the rock garden that tosses you around.

Website. That one was a stopgap for the even crappier older one. I had to get different hosting to deal with the traffic form Adventure Capitalists. As such, it doesn't look like that on my PC or my Iphone. What device platform is that?

 

[rockofullr]

An older Windows 7 machine. Browsing on FireFox.

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

An older Windows 7 machine. Browsing on FireFox.

hmm. I'm on windows 7, but chrome. I'll see what I can check out.

in the meantime, some of the colors delivered so far;

I'm liking the walnut blasted clear coat as a substitution for raw. Building that one up now.

 

[rockofullr]

Could be the fact that this old piece of junk isn't rocking 1080p but neither are most smart phones.

Digging all the colors except for the maroon. I've always hated that color for some reason

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

Could be the fact that this old piece of junk isn't rocking 1080p but neither are most smart phones.

Digging all the colors except for the maroon. I've always hated that color for some reason

There's a different layout for smartphones. This was done on wix, so you have some options to tailor it to different browsers, etc. I pushed for the "expansive look" homepage. Because I like it on other peoples websites. But that's causing problems on yours because it's pushing stuff off the side of the page. Not that it's optimum on any browser. It's just not. Yet.

The red is more red, that's a crappily lighted pic

 

[Sandwich]

partial to the green, reminds me of my first real bike.

 

[rockofullr]

It makes me sad that this bike has a hole in it that I can't fill with dildos and weed

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

partial to the green, reminds me of my first real bike.

The green one was to be a show bike for Interbike. I thought I'd put a green DVO fork on it. But it never got built. Size M. Might be available.

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

It makes me sad that this bike has a hole in it that I can't fill with dildos and weed

I just,,,,I don't.....I.....

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

but I'm really liking this walnut blasted clearcoat with gunmetal linkage

 

[rockofullr]

I just,,,,I don't.....I.....

You must have missed the series of pictures of people putting random shit in that stupid SWAT box shit

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

It makes me sad that this bike has a hole in it that I can't fill with dildos and weed

what I meant to say was "what happened to filling both needs with and ounce of weed up your ass?

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

You must have missed the series of pictures of people putting random shit in that stupid SWAT box shit

i did miss that memo, but if it's any consolation, I've had a couple complaints about debri entering thru the shock hole. I'm thinking a bag of dicks is just the thing

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

the monster truck lives

I just got a couple shake down rides on the 160 mm 29er front and rear, The Shinning.

It's big. It handles pretty damn good.

The rear end laughs at everything in its path.

65 deg HTA, 431 mm CS, 165 m rr travel

 

[ianjenn]

I will take your advice once I figure out when to get up there. I might wait till Sea Otter time, just cuz. Might bring the motorhome and do a tour. Play music, ride my bike. I'll post it here and elsewhere once I get sorted.

Of course you're right about the demo riding. I've just gotten spoiled by the absolute slap you in the face effect when I have people swap over from their own bike, on their own trails. And immediately feel more comfortable and more capable. That tough climb hat gives you fits or the rock garden that tosses you around.

Website. That one was a stopgap for the even crappier older one. I had to get different hosting to deal with the traffic form Adventure Capitalists. As such, it doesn't look like that on my PC or my Iphone. What device platform is that?

Santa Cruz= HERO DIRT NOTHING REALLY CHUNKY FAST AS HELL WITH SOME GOOD SIZED JUMPS AND LOTS OF BERMS
SLO= Rocky, Loose, No Traction, Dry As Hell
Marin=The Good Rocky stuff on Tam is Illegal but actually pretty chunky. The other trails are tamer but more spread out.

 

[rideit]

Whatever you do, don't make decals for the 'Shinning' model.
Unless you are selling flat pedals.

 

[slimshady]

Whatever you do, don't make decals for the 'Shinning' model.
Unless you are selling flat pedals.

I'm holding up for The Shimming, RM's official bike.

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

Whatever you do, don't make decals for the 'Shinning' model.
Unless you are selling flat pedals.

then it would be the shinburger and I'd be in trouble

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

I've been shipping in recycled boxes. I even managed to recycle 3 letters on these special edition, holiday themed scary clown santa ghetto boxes

 

[Nick]

That certainly had the ghetto part covered !

Stop doing that. Screams low class low quality.

 

[Tantrum Cycles]

That certainly had the ghetto part covered !

Stop doing that. Screams low class low quality.

at first, I was a little embarrassed. Used boxes.....but then, customers started loving them. So I thought I'd finish the Kickstarter run out with them.

And they're actually high class, high quality boxes.

 

[xy9ine]

absolutely love the boxes. always nice to see evidence that humans (esp good humored ones) were involved in the process (at whatever stage of production). I like your style, sir.