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New DH bikes

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,008
1,691
In my pants
Anyone want to take a break from discussing e-bikes and VPNs to talk about the two new downhill bikes released this week?

Demo 29
https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/Specialized/Demo-Race-29,26781#product-reviews/3579

No

Yes

Integrated stem handlebars are stupid, always have been, always will be. It's like scott just HAS to include something stupid on every model to stay true to their old school roots.

The bike looks neat otherwise.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,349
897
East Bay, Cali
Integrated stem handlebars are stupid, always have been, always will be. It's like scott just HAS to include something stupid on every model to stay true to their old school roots.

The bike looks neat otherwise.
Do you have any idea how many tens of grams they saved with that thing!!! :panic:

Who cares that you can't adjust the angle of the sweep/rise any more. Muh gramz bruh!
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
15,859
955
01776
Do you have any idea how many tens of grams they saved with that thing!!! :panic:

Who cares that you can't adjust the angle of the sweep/rise any more. Muh gramz bruh!
OR if you crack or cut a bar too short...you get to replace the whole thing at exorbitant cost!

I will say that the newest level of DH bikes are phenomenally clean after a relative lull in development for a few years. The commencal, Horco NSP, some other shit I can't afford...all really top notch designs.
 

chris_f

Monkey
Jun 20, 2007
265
228
The Scott looks amazing. Conceptually I actually don't hate the integrated stem/bar, but in practice I really don't like it.

The Demo... I don't know... It's probably a decent bike but it looks agricultural, to put it kindly.
 

Electric_City

The orangutans are loose!
Apr 14, 2007
1,424
294
Like e-bikes?
... Yes. Believe it or not, I'd rather talk about how much E-bikes suck. I've discussed my hatred of 29'ers for 15+ years. It's good that I found something else that I can (almost) hate as much.

Back on topic--https://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/yay-e-bikes.284559/
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
1,058
352
Styria
The Gambler looks very promising and is even designed to be run with 650b wheels. Geometry looks spot on. Will try to get a chance of riding one in the near future.
Only thing I don't need is internal brake hose routing.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
4,141
1,925
The Scott looks amazing. Conceptually I actually don't hate the integrated stem/bar, but in practice I really don't like it.

The Demo... I don't know... It's probably a decent bike but it looks agricultural, to put it kindly.
It needs some more rear stays to balance it out.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,008
1,691
In my pants
paging @jstuhlman to the carbon, death-bar, comment section
he's getting chest stitches.

He'll be back soon.

And say something about perper terk.


Actually that's the best thing about that 'design': don't have to worry about perper terk.



 
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Happymtb.fr

Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
829
217
SWE
The Scott has some adjustments for chainstay length and for one side of the shock affecting progression and bb-height which is neat! I just hope they manage to make a creack-free version, a similar solution on my Canyon Torque many years ago ended glue up with some loctite to be silenced...
Proprietary chain guard mount sucks, imo
 

jonKranked

Press Button, Receive Stupid
Nov 10, 2005
54,688
4,169
media blackout
Proprietary chain guard mount sucks, imo
i'm generally opposed to proprietary things as well, but i like the mounting configuration they came up with that uses the elastomers. also, they said that trying to conform to the ISCG05 standard on the frame they wouldn't have been able to design the lower portion as strong as they wanted.
 

thad

Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
374
13
I heard some noise that Knolly thinks the new Demo's extra link infringes on their 4x4 patent
 

Happymtb.fr

Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
829
217
SWE
I heard some noise that Knolly thinks the new Demo's extra link infringes on their 4x4 patent
Didn't Knolly design their 4x4 to not infringe on Spesch's patent?
Anyhow, the design of the demo 29 seems much closer to a Canyon Sender than a Knolly, if you ask me. But I am not a patent attorney on the other hand :D
 

thad

Monkey
Sep 28, 2004
374
13
Knolly designed their 4x4 linkage to allow you to run a full length seat post on your sick North Shore huck to flat machine.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,008
1,691
In my pants
Correction:

Knolly told people that they designed their 4x4 linkage to allow you to run a full length seat post on your sick North Shore huck to flat machine.
It's not like long travel horst link bikes with full length seat tubes didn't exist. It was the patent.
 

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
12,522
1,783
North Van
The last DH bike I rode was a 1st gen TR450. It felt like a clownbike when I rode it and I thought I was gonna die for much more of the day than usual.

I'd be keen to try out a more modern bike to compare.

After my buddy sent me a photo of a jammed Whistler lineup (from 11:30 am today), I still can't bring myself to get super excited to ride DH anymore.
 

toodles

Turbo Monkey
Aug 24, 2004
2,605
764
Australia
They're both 29'ers. So no, I'd rather talk about other more important things.
Well it is a DH bike intended to win DH races so it would make sense to put wheels on it that would do that in this day and age. But for what it's worth, isn't it supposed to be 27.5 compatible anyway?

at least it doesn't have 12 links and 48 pivots anymore..
Bizarrely it only ever had the same number of pivots as nearly every other bike on the market.

I quite like it, stupid handlebar aside - I reckon they've smashed out a prime bike. I think the budget conscious privateers will still opt for the Commencal Smashmobile despite the weight penalty though, as the Scott is gonna be crazy expensive for the full bells and whistles version for sure.

The weight of the frame is the amazing part. It's lighter than nearly every top end Enduro frame and a lot of trail bikes. That will obviously cause some whispers about frame durability and stiffness but Scott would probably have access to some of the best composites engineers in the industry given their sports portfolio. I've never owned a DH bike anywhere in that weight realm, but I'd sure like a go on one given a chance.
 

mykel

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2013
1,906
551
sw ontario canada
Correction:



It's not like long travel horst link bikes with full length seat tubes didn't exist. It was the patent.
From what Noel told me back in 2006, he first designed and built the 4 x Four link'd bike that became the V-tach as a personal ride with no original intent to sell.
 

Electric_City

The orangutans are loose!
Apr 14, 2007
1,424
294
Well it is a DH bike intended to win DH races so it would make sense to put wheels on it that would do that in this day and age.
Nope. As I recall, didn't Gwin win the overall last year (or was it 2 years ago) on a 27.5 while Minnar was on a 29'er? One of the best race seasons in a while I might add.

It's not the size. It's how you use it
 
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chris_f

Monkey
Jun 20, 2007
265
228
For anyone who cares... Scott is also offering their new DH bike as an alloy option.
Got a source for that? All I could find on Scott's website was that the Gambler Tuned is full carbon and the Gambler 910 has a carbon front triangle and alloy seat- and chainstays.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,036
1,460
AK
No



Yes

Integrated stem handlebars are stupid, always have been, always will be. It's like scott just HAS to include something stupid on every model to stay true to their old school roots.

The bike looks neat otherwise.
And the fact that these bars really bug Kidwoo makes them even better!
0126fca5d1402d753af8afdbe78bd06a1a9d611785.jpg
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,036
1,460
AK
Well it is a DH bike intended to win DH races so it would make sense to put wheels on it that would do that in this day and age. But for what it's worth, isn't it supposed to be 27.5 compatible anyway?



Bizarrely it only ever had the same number of pivots as nearly every other bike on the market.

I quite like it, stupid handlebar aside - I reckon they've smashed out a prime bike. I think the budget conscious privateers will still opt for the Commencal Smashmobile despite the weight penalty though, as the Scott is gonna be crazy expensive for the full bells and whistles version for sure.

The weight of the frame is the amazing part. It's lighter than nearly every top end Enduro frame and a lot of trail bikes. That will obviously cause some whispers about frame durability and stiffness but Scott would probably have access to some of the best composites engineers in the industry given their sports portfolio. I've never owned a DH bike anywhere in that weight realm, but I'd sure like a go on one given a chance.
We'll see, got a DHurdo race tonight...
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,036
1,460
AK
That will obviously cause some whispers about frame durability and stiffness but Scott would probably have access to some of the best composites engineers in the industry given their sports portfolio.
Or they just decided fuck-you and we'll make it lighter than it should be. Given some of their other engineering decisions, I think this is more likely. That said, their newest stuff does seem to be leaps and bounds better than the wacky ass shit they were pawning off in all of the various disciplines over the years.
 

toodles

Turbo Monkey
Aug 24, 2004
2,605
764
Australia
Nope. As I recall, didn't Gwin win the overall last year (or was it 2 years ago) on a 27.5 while Minnar was on a 29'er? One of the best race seasons in a while I might add.

It's not the size. It's how you use it
Look, I'm a 27.5 fan for sure - my corgi sized legs mean I'm too scared of running a 29er myself. But literally every WC rider that can fit or sort of fit on a 29er is running at least one end of the bike with one of them. I'm sure they're not doing it because they enjoy more rotational weight.
 

Electric_City

The orangutans are loose!
Apr 14, 2007
1,424
294
Look, I'm a 27.5 fan for sure - my corgi sized legs mean I'm too scared of running a 29er myself. But literally every WC rider that can fit or sort of fit on a 29er is running at least one end of the bike with one of them. I'm sure they're not doing it because they enjoy more rotational weight.
I'm certain that the lizards are making them run a 29" wheel somewhere on their bike. If they like it or not. It's probably in their contract.

My point was that I don't run 29" wheels on any of my bikes and I'm not going to start. I've dealt with this shit for over 15 years of people telling me - 5'-8"- that I NEED a 29'er! On the trail I ride with my 29'er buddies and there's no argument. Cause I ride behind them, in the middle of them and in front of them. Post ride? I'm told It rolls over everything SO much better! It's FASTARRRR!!! Nope. I never needed one. The argument is so old. Get over it. I ride for fun and seem to fast when and where I want to.

The wheel isn't going to make me faster. I don't need it. Nor do I want it. Maybe I'll buy an e-bike just to crush my 29'er buds.

-------EDIT - - - - - -
"While the recent trend in new bike launches has been decidedly 29er flavored, the 27.5 wheel platform is not dead just yet."

Nor should it be in the near future.

https://reviews.mtbr.com/yeti-sb165-review-price-weight-specs?fbclid=IwAR2TZcxtBaJ8lrdcrKTi0Bl4GSXFVq5fB6ZaL-eW6r4yg-EhktEGSf6lF6U
 
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