[Kanye West]

Currently riding an Enduro 29er size L. I suspect it's a tad on the small side for me at 6'0 with a 50mm stem.

So far, I'm looking at:

- YT Capra
- GG MegaTrail
- NukeProof Mega 275 or 290
- GT Sanction
- Giant Reign X or Trance X
- Enduro 650B or 29er in an XL
- Anything else that someone suggests

Priorities are:

- Steep seat angle/long reach. Cramped on my current setup and I feel like I'm folded in half when pedaling up some steep sections.
- Water bottle mounts. I can only fit a small water bottle on my current frame since the shock gets in the way. That's annoying.
- Lifetime or 5 year warranty.
- Light-ish. I'm on an aluminum frame now. I'd prefer to stay on aluminum for rocks that get kicked up into the downtube, but a CF frame might be fun. Only one I'd consider would be the YT because the rest would be asspensive in their CF versions.
- Neutral feeling suspension/chassis balance. The Enduro 29 suspension is fairly neutral. Maybe a little bit linear. I have to run a lot of spacers to keep from bottoming easily. The short back end makes it corner well....for a 29er. But the front end feel in corners is pretty weird and wobbly. I can handle it, but it definitely will not take inside lines without a LOT of persuasion.
- I would really prefer to stay away from any stupid goddamn shock links.
- Cheap. I tend to be a J-O-O when it comes to bikes. As does everyone else.

Probably not going to find anything that fits all of those, but I can dream. I'm asking here because this is the forum with the most intelligent people out of any bike forum, and I respect and adore you all.

 

[Kevin]

Im not much into numbers these days, but after riding mostly dh for well over a decade I absolutely love my Commencal Meta... Really good deals on them too!

 

[boostindoubles]

Fwiw, there's a guy on PB selling an xl 16' spitty, new, for 1200 bucks. Seems like a smoking deal. Might be a little big for you?

 

[Kanye West]

Actually, funny you mention that. Prior to the E29, I had an XL Banshee Rune V2. It fit really damn well, but it was a porky thing, and I thought the rear suspension was pretty "off". Rampy in the first bit of travel but would bottom out super easily. Never really got along with it, only had it for a short time and the E29 came along at a good deal so I jumped on that.

That's where I come from with the "consistent" suspension feel thing. Linear is fine. Progressive is fine. But the back and forth crap just feels different every time I hit something. Guess it works for some people.

Aside from that it was actually a pretty nice bike. The raw/clearcoat finish was just dead sexy, and it had nice lines to it and good geometry. Hardware never gave me a peep of trouble either.

 

[boostindoubles]

Well if you are bi-curious, here's the link

http://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/1925973/

I have no affiliation but funk me if that's not a good deal.

 

[toodles]

Transition Patrol? I've got the Scout myself, but they've both got a good seat angle, simple and clean design and are heaps stiffer than most of their alternatives that I've tried.

 

[Gary]

Capra AL1 but put 26" on it and buy a complimentary YT DJ bike along with it so you won't "fashionably" complain it's too short

Caveat: I'm still riding the dirt jumpers downhill bike, the dirt jumpers XC bike and the dirt jumpers Roadbike...

I miss 2008 :'(

 

[iRider]

Didn't you say trail bike? But then you mainly name enduro bikes. Why weigh yourself down with a heavy bike that is closer to your DH bike than to a XC bike? Unless you ride super rough trails all the time, you as a DH rider have the skills to ride a lightweight trail bike down some pretty gnarly stuff but benefit on the ups from lighter weight. Propain TwoFace, Spider 275, C'dale Habit, Spitty and such would be worth a look IMO.

 

[Kanye West]

Transition Patrol? I've got the Scout myself, but they've both got a good seat angle, simple and clean design and are heaps stiffer than most of their alternatives that I've tried.

Just gave it a look. Seems interesting. Good geometry. Whatever published leverage curve is available from a quick Google search looks a bit funky though.

Pretty awesome that a full sized water bottle can be fit in the front triangle. Crazy when that's a selling point.

 

[Kanye West]

Didn't you say trail bike? But then you mainly name enduro bikes. Why weigh yourself down with a heavy bike that is closer to your DH bike than to a XC bike? Unless you ride super rough trails all the time, you as a DH rider have the skills to ride a lightweight trail bike down some pretty gnarly stuff but benefit on the ups from lighter weight. Propain TwoFace, Spider 275, C'dale Habit, Spitty and such would be worth a look IMO.

Trail bike, Enduro bike, what the hell ever.

Basically all our trails are super rough. Dry, dusty, rocky. Loose rocks over embedded rocks. Rarely ever are there berms. This is the opposite of loamy bermed out trails of the PNW. Not looking to KOM any climbs. I don't hate myself enough for that.

The ones that are smooth I would just ride my hardtail on. My DH bike stays in it's shipping box now except for Whistler or maybe a Mammoth trip.

 

[StiHacka]

Canfield Balance? Not lightish though, no bottle mounts inside frame, only 2 years warranty period.

 

[djjohnr]

Haven't ridden the Patrol, but have a little saddle time on the Scout and I didn't feel anything weird in the suspension rate.

Pretty hard to go wrong with a Reign.

 

[Kanye West]

Canfield Balance? Not lightish though, no bottle mounts inside frame, only 2 years warranty period.

That was actually one of the first frames I looked at. Some local guys absolutely love that thing. The seat angle situation looked even worse than the E29 unfortunately. Aside from that, it looked pretty cool.

 

[iRider]

Basically all our trails are super rough. Dry, dusty, rocky. Loose rocks over embedded rocks. Rarely ever are there berms. This is the opposite of loamy bermed out trails of the PNW. Not looking to KOM any climbs. I don't hate myself enough for that.

It is not about KOMs but to make life easier. At least for me. Dunno if you can get it in the US, but take a look at the Propain TwoFace. 5.5" of travel, slack geometry, well thought out suspension and now with WC street cred (DIRT Mag team).

 

[StiHacka]

That was actually one of the first frames I looked at. Some local guys absolutely love that thing. The seat angle situation looked even worse than the E29 unfortunately. Aside from that, it looked pretty cool.

Did you see the new 2016 version with the updated geometry? The seat tube angle is a bit steeper, the reach and TT are longer. I've just built the 2015 model and I like it a lot.

 

[Kanye West]

Yeah just looked. That's the one I was looking at. Still on the slack side for the seat tube angle. Says 75.5 "effective", which means at the same level as the top of the headtube...I think. That number only gets lower as the seat goes higher, which it always will for proper climbing.



The other big hurdle to overcome is that COMPLETE bikes come from YT and NukeProof in the mid $2k range.....that's a lot of bike for the money. I'd probably buy something in that range, swap out shock/fork/brakes and sell the OEM stuff, and have a pretty good-to-go setup for under $3k. I don't think there's any way I could do that starting with a $2k frame.

 

[rollertoaster]

Patrol is a solid option. You can fit a huge bottle in that frame and the geometry is nice and aggressive. You'll probably want an xl though. I rode a large for about a month and it was very cramped, I sold it and bought an xl Nomad for for a really good price.

 

[mtg]

If you have any Megatrail specific questions, let me know.

 

[sbabuser]

You must have a long torso, or Spec shortened the ett on the 29'er compared to my '12 Enduro. I'm 6'2", and that bike felt a little big to me w/ a 50mm stem and narrow-by-today's-standard bars (29").

 

[Kanye West]

You must have a long torso, or Spec shortened the ett on the 29'er compared to my '12 Enduro. I'm 6'2", and that bike felt a little big to me w/ a 50mm stem and narrow-by-today's-standard bars (29").

You were riding at size L at 6'2??

I think the 29er versions got shorter in the top tube/reach, but greater in the stack, which offsets it some.

I'm 6'0 with a 30" inseam, so I'm a little longer in the torso.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Buy a Nukeproof and then tell us how it performs .
YT Capra is too small I think. The only XL version in aluminium would work. Not possible to mount a bottle, though.

The best deals would definitely be a Giant, Nukeproof or YT, though.
The Reign seems to be pretty spot on for your requirements. The seat angle is a bit slack, though.

 

[Kanye West]

Buy a Nukeproof and then tell us how it performs .
YT Capra is too small I think. The only XL version in aluminium would work. Not possible to mount a bottle, though.

The best deals would definitely be a Giant, Nukeproof or YT, though.
The Reign seem to be pretty spot on for your requirements. The seat angle is a bit slack, though.

The new NukeProof's must be really new. I can't find a single paying customer review of them.

I would have to rig up a water bottle thing on the YT though. Are those strap-on bottle mounts worth a damn?

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Well, looking at the new Nukeproof, you'll have the same problem with mounting a bottle on it.
Will not work.

Do you consider a new Devinci Troy? Lifetime warranty and bottle ready.

@djjohnr review on it:
http://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/2016-devinci-troy-write-up.275981/

 

[brake_and_bleed]

I've just ordered a Devinci Spartan xp carbon, fill build £2k. Don't know what they sell for in the US. Fits the bill apart from bottle cage mount

Edit: you would want an xl.

 

[Sandwich]

new evil wreckoning or the following?

love the bike, hate the seat angle.

I'd be up for any of the kona processes, or the transition plum smuggler, if you're sticking with 29ers. I suspect that if you go 27.5, some of the "tallness" of the enduro will go away. That bike largely handled better than the following I have now, but the following is a better fit, in part because of the lower stack height.

How about the BMC trailfox? You want reach, it's got reach. Low stack heights, good suspension design.

 

[Kanye West]

I looked at the Devinci bikes a bit. My DH bike is a 2013 Wilson in an XL. Thing works very well. The Troy didn't look very aggressive and the Spartan I know absolutely nothing about. They do have the warranty thing down though.

I'm more and more intrigued by the Transition Patrol. The only thing that looks funny is the aesthetic of the rocker link. It looks so close to being in line with the seat stay it feels like it would bind easily. Probably just my imagination though.

 

[djjohnr]

Devinci lengthened the reach on the 2016 Troy but the reach on the Spartan is a lot shorter.

The Patrol, Reign and Megatrail all sound like they'd meet your requirements - long reach, 6" travel, slack head angle and less expensive.

 

[ZHendo]

I'm interested in several of the same bikes. My Spitfire has been great, but I want something a little longer, steeper seat angle, and lighter. I have been looking at the Patrol and Troy, but I can't get over the relative steepness of the Troy's head angle - I can't help feeling that they should have gone a degree or two slacker, and Fanatik told me that there are no reducer headset cups available for that headtube size.

 

[Loki87]

Donwhillers Enduro/Trailbike?
I don´t think you can get any more downhill than this:
http://enduro-mtb.com/eurobike-2015-solid-bikes-mit-neuem-170-mm-enduro/

The downhill bike from Solid is allready a beast and despite my 7speed setup, uphill capabilities are surprisingly good (not that i have tested it extensively, but short transitions between tracks are kinda indicating it´s better than most). I had no chance to test the prototype yet, but from those that have tried it i heard it´s pretty much a short travel copy of the Strike and everyone raves about it.
Water bottle will be a problem on this one, but everything else is pretty much spot on.
If you want information on suspension kinematics, shoot Solid an email, their head engineer will happily give you more info than your brain can process

Of course there´s still no release date, but it´s been around a while now, so i guess it can´t be much longer.

 

[StiHacka]

Donwhillers Enduro/Trailbike?
I don´t think you can get any more downhill than this:
http://enduro-mtb.com/eurobike-2015-solid-bikes-mit-neuem-170-mm-enduro/

The downhill bike from Solid is allready a beast and despite my 7speed setup, uphill capabilities are surprisingly good (not that i have tested it extensively, but short transitions between tracks are kinda indicating it´s better than most). I had no chance to test the prototype yet, but from those that have tried it i heard it´s pretty much a short travel copy of the Strike and everyone raves about it.
Water bottle will be a problem on this one, but everything else is pretty much spot on.
If you want information on suspension kinematics, shoot Solid an email, their head engineer will happily give you more info than your brain can process

Of course there´s still no release date, but it´s been around a while now, so i guess it can´t be much longer.

The OP said "no strange links fvckage" Besides, most of the DE bike brands including this one just cannot be obtained in the US of A.

 

[Loki87]

The OP said "no strange links fvckage" Besides, most of the DE bike brands including this one just cannot be obtained in the US of A.

Im pretty sure there´s nothing strange going on with the links in regards to leverage curves, since the guy who designed it is kinda straight forward in that regard as far as i know him. Pretty much has a no bullshit approach and wants to build a workhorse that can get shit done. But as i said, ask him, once you get the guy talking it´s hard to make him stop

Yeah, obtaining one might be the only issue. I think they´d be able to ship one though and dealing with them for spares, warranty and stuff is really no problem, since they try really hard to make everything work out for you.
But of course, might be not for everyone to not have a local distributor.
Given how many Strike owners rave about Solid customer service however (yeah, it´s not just me ), i´d say it´s worth thinking about, IF they´ll ship to the US.

 

[FlipFantasia]

hard to beat the new reign's for performance/value. they're super capable bikes when things get fast and gnarly too

 

[kidwoo]

Buy a megatrail you pussy.

It's stiffer than a patrol and weighs the same. And the words are written like megadeth.

 

[Udi]

Whatever published leverage curve is available from a quick Google search looks a bit funky though.

That's what puts me off the Patrol too, especially if you're running an air shock. The Mega has a bit of digression at the start of the stroke too.

I think the Reign is a good choice because it's light, has excellent suspension and a lifetime warranty. It could be a bit stiffer but it's not too bad (the Trance is bad), and the seat angle could be steeper but again it's not terrible. They're also substantially lighter in alloy guise than other alloy frames (2.5kg w/o shock), and the carbon saves 200g. I'm not hugely pedantic about weight in downhill bikes, but trailbikes need to be light because climbing sucks. Water bottle mounts inside triangle.

I like the Rune as well, it actually has a mostly progressive leverage curve and with a lick of digression at the end (ratio increase of <0.1 at end, nowhere near as bad as the Legend). I wonder if what you felt wasn't a function of the shock/setup? I think it'd work quite well with a modern air spring (X2/debonair/corset). Seat angle is better than Reign, stiffer, but weight is markedly inferior too (3.27kg w/o shock). Unfortunately fails at water bottling.

The YT has a decent leverage curve but the antisquat numbers are a bit low for a trailbike @32T, both the Reign and Rune are better here. Fails at water bottle. The carbon ones were also cracking, not sure if fixed.

 

[kidwoo]

That wacked parabolic peak at the beginning of the travel on the patrol doesn't really translate to riding. It's either too flat overall to matter before sag, or just doesn't exist. It definitely doesn't 'nomad' out in that range.

That's only based on having ridden one a bunch though, so take that for what it's worth.

 

[Kanye West]

Yes please no Link Fuckage. That should be the new Specialized acronyn - LF system.

Udi, good info as always. That's the kind of info I'm looking for.

Woo woo, looks like the weight on the MegaTrail is between that if the Patrol Al and CF. Pricing will likely follow that as well.

The one leverage curve I found on Google for the MegaTrail looked consistently progressive from 2.8 down to 2.3 (roughly). Is that accurate?

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah I'd say that leverage curve is pretty close on the megatrail. Nothing weird anywhere in the travel. Makes it easy to mess with shocks. With a stock monarch damper, I threw a few rubber bands in. With a DB inline, I threw ALL the rubber bands in I could get my hands on. The DB ones and a bunch of Rockshox ones I had.

I was basing my stiffness comparisons on the AL version of the patrol. I haven't ridden the plastic one, but I'd kind of assume it to be stiffer. FWIW, I really did like the way the patrols ride. I just wished the rear end was a little beefier. But I rode the MT and the patrol back to back in the same period. I bought the megatrail.

 

[Udi]

It's either too flat overall to matter before sag, or just doesn't exist. It definitely doesn't 'nomad' out in that range.

a) Comparing to short-to-med travel VPP bikes makes any suspension look good.
b) Being flat at that part in the travel isn't a good thing - any digression is worse.
c) "Doesn't really translate" is a bit vague, I'd say it depends what you're comparing to.

There's a reason a good trailbike suspension design has sharp initial progression (i.e. very high leverage ratio initially). Air shocks have a substantial initial spring rate spike (even on a modern air can), and a flat curve doesn't do anything to overcome this, so you get a resultant transmittance rather than absorption of a bump every time the suspension extends into the first ~8% of travel.

Look at how the LR curve of the Insurgent (for example) works to mellow the spikes shown in the 2nd graph:

(Source: Antonio Osuna)

(Source: Vorsprung)

 

[kidwoo]

There's a reason a good trailbike suspension design has sharp initial progression (i.e. very high leverage ratio initially). Air shocks have a substantial initial spring rate spike (even on a modern air can), and a flat curve doesn't do anything to overcome this, so you get a resultant transmittance rather than absorption of a bump every time the suspension extends into the first ~8% of travel.

 

[Udi]

Forgot to mention, my post was for the benefit of anyone but kidwoo, since every time I correct him there's a "wahh, I already knew that" response.

"doesn't really translate to riding."
"It's either too flat overall to matter before sag"

It does translate, and it does matter.
We get it though, you're American.