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New Guns

Spunger

Git yer dumb questions here
Feb 19, 2003
2,257
0
805
I look at it this way........for home defense just get a pump shotgun, The Winchester 870's I think they are, cheap, plenty of good marks for them, and with a shotgun in the heat of things you don't even really need to aim, just point and shoot. I always think it's funny when you're trying out guns at a range or such and you have the time and effort to aim and such but if you're getting robbed or your home is broken into not much time for that, you'll be in protective mode and not "bullseye" mode.

But I see no need for the .50 caliber rifles. I saw some guy at our local gun range with one and he was on a total power trip. Sure they'll take out a small aircraft and such but WTF does that do you in the real world? It serves no purpose for any sort of sport shooting OR just having fun. Way worthless unless you're the police or military.l

.22 is all you need for messing around. They're cheap, rounds are dirt cheap, and you can have fun all day. .22 is like a step up from a pellet rifle. I love them though. It's still a gun, so you can still kill small animals with it and such if you're into that stuff. Even a .223 is more than sufficent for most people target practicing or hunting. Not like there's much of that here in so cal.

My dad has a couple of guns and he never uses them, maybe once a year. In your home if you have 7 or 8 shots out of a handgun and miss like said above, you deserve what's comming to you. I'd probably get a handgun before they tell me I can't get one due to some worthless gun law and a riffle just to have one. It's not like they go down in value or anything plus it's a piece of mind knowing you'll have the upper hand if something happens. I wouldn't be scared to pull the trigger that's for sure.
 
Spunger said:
...Way worthless unless you're the police or military...
Which is pretty much the conclusion I have come to regarding all firearms after years of owning them. You can have your weapon of choice stashed all ready to go, hell, you can be carrying - the odds of it really being useful should a situation come up are quite low.

Fun toys, anyway, still dangerous.

J
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,918
borcester rhymes
I think a few of you have your points mixed up.

The reason somebody needs a .50 m82a1 is the same reason that somebody needs a lamborghini. Neither are very useful, but each packs the most power and the coolest looks.

Outside of the apocalypse coming, would a civillian ever need a .50? Probably not, but neither do they need 600hp unless they have a track.

It all comes down to fun, mostly. Having heard that the Barret m82 has the recoil of a 12 gauge sounds pretty damn fun.

Otherwise, for self defense, a pistol or shotgun would work just fine. In terms of stopping power, *most* people probably won't get up after one round, no matter what size it is. A gun has a lot of power without being fired.
 

spam16v

Monkey
Oct 27, 2004
284
0
Buffalo, NY
past couple posts are exactly what im doing.... i have my Glock 19 for personal use/cheap plinking and the G22 is a cool and cheap 22 to plink with too, and its got the cool factor going for it with the nifty sights ect. am i ever going to have to USE my glock? unlikely is an understatement but after sleeping with a riffle for 2 years in the military your view on life changes. 50-70% of break ins are "inside" jobs from ppl who have been near/around you and your home. id prefer ppl to think to go elsewhere.
 

spam16v

Monkey
Oct 27, 2004
284
0
Buffalo, NY
Sandwich said:
A gun has a lot of power without being fired.
wise man to understand that, 90% of its a "show of force" learned that in the military also. most ppl who have rifles when you see them are empty. if you have the intentions of wanting a permit and jump through all of the hoops that the government has to throw your way, ppl show alot of respect for that as well. takes alot of discipline to fufill the requirements to get thier CHL.
 

TheMontashu

Pourly Tatteued Jeu
Mar 15, 2004
5,549
0
I'm homeless
Jorvik said:
If you think you need a 30 round magazine as a civilian you are wrong. If you are not carrying a .45 you are wrong. If your assault weapon costs more than 600 dollars you are wrong.

For your assault weapon don't get anything in .223 (e.g. AR-15s). Save yourself some money and get an AK47. This gun might be a bit hard to control from standing, and the sights are cheaper and not as accurate as your standard AR peep sights. But this thing will last you forever and has some real stopping ability. It can be dropped in mud and still fire just as well as before. If you do buy an AR remember that less is more. Having a modular rail system, 2 optical sights and a 10.5" bbl might look cool but do you really need all that? Odds are all that crap is just going to get in your way. One thing that I appreciate on my M4 is my Eotech sight. Wherever I put that little dot the bullet goes as long as I have the proper trigger control. I wouldn't like it for shooting on the KD range but it's absolutly the best thing for 0-2 distance.

As far as your pistol, buy yourself a Glock 23 or 30 depending on what you're going to use it for. If you can't stop whatever you're aiming at with 13 rounds at 25 yards or less you deserve whatever you get.

.50 BMG rifles are stupid if you're not going to be shooting at vehicles or people. There are much better rifles for hunting out there in better calibers.
As far as an assault rifle all I need is a 700 action with a bull barrel and mcmillen stock and 10x loupold. I have a Glock 23 and I like it alot I do alot of action postol with it and like evorything about the gun. In a combat situation I am going to say nothing is better than a 1911 like a kimber, wilson, or les bear :drool:
 

mack

Turbo Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
3,674
0
Colorado
TheMontashu said:
In a combat situation I am going to say nothing is better than a 1911 like a kimber, wilson, or les bear :drool:

Yeah, i hate when i get stuck in a combat situation with a shoddy bad caliber rifle. :nopity: :rolleyes:


I dont mind people having big ass guns or whatever ( i even own a few), but when you start talking about combat situations, body armor penetration and other topics of conversation that have to do with killing anothor human, do society a favor and piss off.
 

TheMontashu

Pourly Tatteued Jeu
Mar 15, 2004
5,549
0
I'm homeless
mack said:
Yeah, i hate when i get stuck in a combat situation with a shoddy bad caliber rifle. :nopity: :rolleyes:


I dont mind people having big ass guns or whatever ( i even own a few), but when you start talking about combat situations, body armor penetration and other topics of conversation that have to do with killing anothor human, do society a favor and piss off.
Exept for a 1911 is a pistol, wich would be used as a defensive firearm in a common household then the efectiveness on a person comes into play.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
TheMontashu said:
Exept for a 1911 is a pistol, wich would be used as a defensive firearm in a common household then the efectiveness on a person comes into play.
Seriously, if you think you need home defense (you may live in the ghetto, what do I know) then get youself a nice dependable shotgun with home protection loads and be done with it.

Instead of spewing lead through the walls, and missing the target in the heat of the moment, you will almost be guaranteed a non lethal hit in a cq environment with he added advantage of not killing the neighbors and or your child on the other side of the sheetrock.

If you think you will hit someone with a 9mm or 45 who has just surprised you in your home, in the dead of night, in your boxxers with yoru heart pounding and no combat experience to speak of, you are deluding yourself.
 

Thrillkil

Monkey
May 25, 2005
595
0
Isla Vista, CA
Sounds like an 1100 with a combat shotgun upgrade kit (8-9 round tube, pistol grip, folding stock, 18" barrel) would be an ideal dorm protection tool. Gotta safeguard all those White Russians :)

That or a TEC-9 with one of those 50 round extended magazines.
 

skatetokil

Turbo Monkey
Jan 2, 2005
2,383
-1
DC/Bluemont VA
I'm bored and guns are my job. So I'm going to pretensiously school you up.

If you're trying to defeat any sort of armored vehicle you're going to need something bigger than a 50 cal. And there isn't an armor piercing incindiary explosive round. There's an armor piercing round, an incidiary round, an armor piercing incidiary rounds, and then tracers for all of those. There's also an explosive round which is not yet or probably ever fielded by the US military as far as I know of. There's no AP variant of it. And the most you're going to penatrate with a 50 is 3/4 inches of hardened steel if you can get a hold of SLAP rounds. Stopping police vehicles with one? Sure. An APC? Very unlikely.

If you think you need a 30 round magazine as a civilian you are wrong. If you are not carrying a .45 you are wrong. If your assault weapon costs more than 600 dollars you are wrong.

For your assault weapon don't get anything in .223 (e.g. AR-15s). Save yourself some money and get an AK47. This gun might be a bit hard to control from standing, and the sights are cheaper and not as accurate as your standard AR peep sights. But this thing will last you forever and has some real stopping ability. It can be dropped in mud and still fire just as well as before. If you do buy an AR remember that less is more. Having a modular rail system, 2 optical sights and a 10.5" bbl might look cool but do you really need all that? Odds are all that crap is just going to get in your way. One thing that I appreciate on my M4 is my Eotech sight. Wherever I put that little dot the bullet goes as long as I have the proper trigger control. I wouldn't like it for shooting on the KD range but it's absolutly the best thing for 0-2 distance.

As far as your pistol, buy yourself a Glock 23 or 30 depending on what you're going to use it for. If you can't stop whatever you're aiming at with 13 rounds at 25 yards or less you deserve whatever you get.

.50 BMG rifles are stupid if you're not going to be shooting at vehicles or people. There are much better rifles for hunting out there in better calibers.
Remembered this thread from a while back cause I just bought a 9mm today. Beretta/Stoeger Cougar 8000 w/15 round magazines:


Double/single action w/decocker safety, unique rotating barrel locking mechanism, and a pretty sweet price tag.

As for armor piercing incendiary explosive rounds, wikipedia disagrees.

They exist and they are very illegal.

Also, I already have a 10/22 and a Taurus 22 target revolver for plinking. This new one's for everything else.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,212
17
Blindly running into cactus
I'll bet he enjoys touching that thing off, doesn't he? I always had a good time when I was a kid going out and plinking away with whatever pistols/rifles the old man happened to have around at the time.
nah, he shot it once to get the curiosity out of him but the only time he sees it is when i get it out of the safe to clean it.
there's nothing creepy about educating a youngin' to the safe and responsible handling of firearms.
the boy can whoop it up with his lever action bb gun though :thumb:
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
there's nothing creepy about educating a youngin' to the safe and responsible handling of firearms. :thumb:
change 'youngin' to 'people' and your spot on.

why is it that to drive a car, an adult needs to take two tests on car safety and road rules but to buy a gun you need only money? (and probably 2 weeks if it's a hand gun?)

I'm all for people haveing guns but there needs to be more education.
 

llkoolkeg

Ranger LL
Sep 5, 2001
4,329
5
in da shed, mon, in da shed
Manimal is dead on.

The Desert Eagle .50AE does not kick anywhere near as badly as other handguns I have fired. For those of you in the Northern VA area, Shooters Paradise in Woodbridge even had one available as a loaner for use at their range. Many things affect how badly a firearm's "kick" is perceived:
* bullet weight
* powder charge
* barrel length
* firearm weight
* stock padding/absorption or lack thereof
* powder type and burn rate
* compensator/porting or lack thereof
* cartridge cycling mechanism(e.g. autoloader vs. revolver vs. bolt-action, etc.)
* etc, etc as I have only touched on the simplest to comprehend of the various factors involved

If you own firearms, teaching your children about them from a very early age is MANDATORY. They need to learn how deadly they are, how serious a thing it is to even touch one, how to do so safely and hopefully, how to handle, maintain, load and shoot them effectively.

My dad didn't raise any pee-sitting pvssies and neither shall I...even though I was blessed with daughters. :biggrin:
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,799
8,383
Nowhere Man!
If you think you will hit someone with a 9mm or 45 who has just surprised you in your home, in the dead of night, in your boxxers with yoru heart pounding and no combat experience to speak of, you are deluding yourself.
If you own a gun and you can't use it then you're a fool. I know I can react alot faster to a situation with a pistol then a shotgun. I have more experience shooting pistols also. I have no combat experience using a pistol either. Very few folks do. Lets just put it this way. I know if that if that pistol is within reach and I can get a leg up on you.... Well lets just pray that never happens. I don't own a pistol only a Ithaca Deerslayer 12g. and I keep that in the case locked in the closet....
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Sure, and you have been in combat I assume?

Being able to use a firearm safely, and doing so under duress, while possibly being shot at/attcked are not the same thing.

I can field strip, clean, re assemble and fire all the firearms I have used int he past. I have various trap, skeet and .22 target competition medals. However, I don't doubt that under the above circumstances, I probably couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
 

llkoolkeg

Ranger LL
Sep 5, 2001
4,329
5
in da shed, mon, in da shed
Sure, and you have been in combat I assume?

Being able to use a firearm safely, and doing so under duress, while possibly being shot at/attcked are not the same thing.

I can field strip, clean, re assemble and fire all the firearms I have used int he past. I have various trap, skeet and .22 target competition medals. However, I don't doubt that under the above circumstances, I probably couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
How do the professionals deal with such things? They train to the point that they don't have to think...they react by reverting to their training...that or they don't survive. Nobody ever knows exactly how well they will do ANYTHING under stress or duress yet somehow, people still mange to learn how to operate effectively and in some cases thrive under such pressure extremes.

If you don't think you'll be able to hit the broad side of a barn while stressed, get a weapon more forgiving of inaccuracy and suitable for home protection- a 12 gauge pump-gun with soft lead buckshot or frangible ammo.

The answer is not to throw up one's hands and give up but to train more.
 

J_B

Monkey
Sep 20, 2004
849
0
In My '09 WRX STI
Seriously, if you think you need home defense (you may live in the ghetto, what do I know) then get youself a nice dependable shotgun with home protection loads and be done with it.

Instead of spewing lead through the walls, and missing the target in the heat of the moment, you will almost be guaranteed a non lethal hit in a cq environment with he added advantage of not killing the neighbors and or your child on the other side of the sheetrock.

If you think you will hit someone with a 9mm or 45 who has just surprised you in your home, in the dead of night, in your boxxers with yoru heart pounding and no combat experience to speak of, you are deluding yourself.
Very true. Shotguns are the ultimate CQB weapon, in my sorry ass opinion. I use my shotgun more when clearing houses or buildings than my handgun....if time permits. Loaded with 00 buck, an extended magazine, surefire forend light and speedfeed shorty pistol gripped stock and 3 point sling, it's pretty easy to move in tight quarters if you handle your weapon right.

Not taking away from the various CQB weapons out there.....M4, MP5.

The risk of over penetrating an intended target is huge in CQB, especially when you're dealing with high velocity rounds such as 9mm, 5.56 etc. The problem with over penetration of the target is nothing new but using a frangible round helps.

Missing an intended target in low light conditions with no training is high. Gun lights help to ID your target and low light training helps. Like Frasier said, if you just throw rounds out there, you will miss, period.

As with manimal, I carry a handgun everyday and while I cannot speak for manimal, I don't work in the greatest of area so my weapon is taken out more often than not. I'm going to guess he deals with the same crap, he just lives on the other side of this great country.

I was assigned to an ERT (emergency response team aka swat)with my old agency and I'm very comfortable fighting with someone or chasing someone then engaging with my handgun. If you are used to the feeling of fighting or running then drawing down you will have no problems.

I've witnessed people who can 10X the target with no problems while qualifying, then go out and completely screw up a shoot and move course because there was stress.

Hitting 10X from a stand still with no stress is all great but how many shootouts involve a still target and your life not on the line??

That is where high stress training comes in. Training is paramount. The way you train is how you will react in a combat situation.

My little bro is a 3 tour combat vet with 1st Force Recon and was a CQB instructor. I talk with him everyday and go over situations as well as practice clearing rooms etc. Having someone like that who gives advice, shows you new tricks and steals your bike sh!t is helpful.

Handguns in combat: I actually had this conversation with him a week ago, before I even saw this thread.

He was saying that even though he carried the issued .45, his main engagments and kills in CQB were with the M4. The .45 was there for when his primary weapon had a malfunction.

Sooooo, what was the whole point of this? Simple, if you are going to have a loaded firearm in your house for protection, then train and shoot it as if your life and the lives of others you are protecting depended on it.

Think about what you really need as opposed to what you want when buying a firearm.

Flame away folks.....
 

dirtydirtysouf

Deletated
May 23, 2006
1,019
0
the ghetto of winston-salem, nc
Very true. Shotguns are the ultimate CQB weapon, in my sorry ass opinion. I use my shotgun more when clearing houses or buildings than my handgun....if time permits. Loaded with 00 buck, an extended magazine, surefire forend light and speedfeed shorty pistol gripped stock and 3 point sling, it's pretty easy to move in tight quarters if you handle your weapon right.

Not taking away from the various CQB weapons out there.....M4, MP5.

The risk of over penetrating an intended target is huge in CQB, especially when you're dealing with high velocity rounds such as 9mm, 5.56 etc. The problem with over penetration of the target is nothing new but using a frangible round helps.

Missing an intended target in low light conditions with no training is high. Gun lights help to ID your target and low light training helps. Like Frasier said, if you just throw rounds out there, you will miss, period.

As with manimal, I carry a handgun everyday and while I cannot speak for manimal, I don't work in the greatest of area so my weapon is taken out more often than not. I'm going to guess he deals with the same crap, he just lives on the other side of this great country.

I was assigned to an ERT (emergency response team aka swat)with my old agency and I'm very comfortable fighting with someone or chasing someone then engaging with my handgun. If you are used to the feeling of fighting or running then drawing down you will have no problems.

I've witnessed people who can 10X the target with no problems while qualifying, then go out and completely screw up a shoot and move course because there was stress.

Hitting 10X from a stand still with no stress is all great but how many shootouts involve a still target and your life not on the line??

That is where high stress training comes in. Training is paramount. The way you train is how you will react in a combat situation.

My little bro is a 3 tour combat vet with 1st Force Recon and was a CQB instructor. I talk with him everyday and go over situations as well as practice clearing rooms etc. Having someone like that who gives advice, shows you new tricks and steals your bike sh!t is helpful.

Handguns in combat: I actually had this conversation with him a week ago, before I even saw this thread.

He was saying that even though he carried the issued .45, his main engagments and kills in CQB were with the M4. The .45 was there for when his primary weapon had a malfunction.

Sooooo, what was the whole point of this? Simple, if you are going to have a loaded firearm in your house for protection, then train and shoot it as if your life and the lives of others you are protecting depended on it.

Think about what you really need as opposed to what you want when buying a firearm.

Flame away folks.....
nice!!!!!!!!! this is why i joined my local IDPA training class/team....to learn to shot and move
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,799
8,383
Nowhere Man!
Sure, and you have been in combat I assume?

Being able to use a firearm safely, and doing so under duress, while possibly being shot at/attcked are not the same thing.

I can field strip, clean, re assemble and fire all the firearms I have used int he past. I have various trap, skeet and .22 target competition medals. However, I don't doubt that under the above circumstances, I probably couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.
Really? Why not? You might be surprised at how well you would do...

Based on what your telling me. I would think that you would have more experience then say the average Joe or criminal wrongdoer type with a firearm??

And no I have never been in combat. I know I am a really good shot :thumb: