[J_B]

Really? Why not? You might be surprised at how well you would do...

Based on what your telling me. I would think that you would have more experience then say the average Joe or criminal wrongdoer type with a firearm??

And no I have never been in combat.

To touch on the criminal wrongdoer who were involved in shootouts with other criminals or cops......I just read an article that said some or most of them trained with their guns (shooting or drawing) or committed shooting against other criminals to beat the average cop or armed citizen.

It's also documented that gang bangers are joining the military, being deployed in combat, getting out and teaching their fellow bangers how to effectively put rounds on target. Just look at the shooting in Ceres, CA on 1/9/05.

I am not proud of the guy because he was a Marine and killed a cop or could have killed anyone else for that matter. My point is, he effectively put rounds down range on mulitple targets, by himself. I bet he taught his friends a few things while he was home on leave.

 

[Sandwich]

To touch on the criminal wrongdoer who were involved in shootouts with other criminals or cops......I just read an article that said some or most of them trained with their guns (shooting or drawing) or committed shooting against other criminals to beat the average cop or armed citizen.

It's also documented that gang bangers are joining the military, being deployed in combat, getting out and teaching their fellow bangers how to effectively put rounds on target. Just look at the shooting in Ceres, CA on 1/9/05.

I am not proud of the guy because he was a Marine and killed a cop or could have killed anyone else for that matter. My point is, he effectively put rounds down range on mulitple targets, by himself. I bet he taught his friends a few things while he was home on leave.

what did/do you do for a living?

 

[TheMontashu]

I deicided on this one for my next gun

 

[manimal]

As with manimal, I carry a handgun everyday and while I cannot speak for manimal, I don't work in the greatest of area so my weapon is taken out more often than not. I'm going to guess he deals with the same crap, he just lives on the other side of this great country.

I've witnessed people who can 10X the target with no problems while qualifying, then go out and completely screw up a shoot and move course because there was stress.

Hitting 10X from a stand still with no stress is all great but how many shootouts involve a still target and your life not on the line??

That is where high stress training comes in. Training is paramount. The way you train is how you will react in a combat situation.

well said JB, saves me from having to type a nearly identical post and yes, my sidearm is out daily....i work in public housing aka: the projects, the hood, el barrio and i'm also part of our gang unit so i'm constantly dealing with the best society has to offer.
the gangs in the military bit is true and very scary. there are also police departments, most recently in mid-tennessee, that have had their rookie schools infiltrated by gangs and gang members are graduating as police officers without retribution. if every citizen knew how the "criminal enterprise" works and how thick gangs are in this nation, everyone would take home defense much more seriously.

 

[S.K.C.]

To J_B:

what did/do you do for a living?

...I'm guessing DevGroup, SFOD-D/CAG, or 160th SOARA... something along those lines... :biggrin:

 

[ATOMICFIREBALL]

Good post ! You know this is an anti-gun website.. !!!!
Nice guns.that Walther is very cool. I would like to get my class II or ClassIII so i can Legally own a silincer.

BUT, that would definately let the government know i was a gun owner & enthousiast; & therefore make it easier for them later on to try to confiscate - when they decide to do that !?(Europe,Austrailia).

I work selling swords & knives. Believe me,there is only sooo much you can do with a sword against an evil government.(democratic comminist)...
ha ha lol...................

 

[blue]

The answer is not to throw up one's hands and give up but to train more.

You should consider focusing your energies on something more productive. Like weed cultivation.

 

[Bicyclist]

pwnge

 

[ThePriceSeliger]

You ever shoot a 45-70 W/ deer loads. Now that is kick.

No it's not. It's loud, but not a strong kick. Unless you're a giant pansy.

 

[J_B]

To J_B:


...I'm guessing DevGroup, SFOD-D/CAG, or 160th SOARA... something along those lines... :biggrin:

Negative Ghostrider.......

I could tell you but then I would have to kill you......

 

[llkoolkeg]

You should consider focusing your energies on something more productive. Like weed cultivation.

Were I not a property and gun owner, married and with kids, I probably would!

These days, I have to wait until attending party or whatnot to enjoy such things. Gone are the days of rolling out of bed for a wake-n-bake, grabbing a slice of cold pizza from the 'fridge and picking up the pruning scissors to manicure the freshly harvested tops. :biggrin:

 

[S.K.C.]

Negative Ghostrider.......

I could tell you but then I would have to kill you......

LOL....

O.K. fine...

...so you're a Marine, then?

:biggrin:

 

[J_B]

LOL....

O.K. fine...

...so you're a Marine, then?

:biggrin:

HAHAHA.....that was just too good to pass up.

Yeah, just your average former jarhead that now gets to drive fast, chase people, take reports of guys beating their wives, dads beating their kids/molesting them and going to homicides and robberies......it's fun.

 

[Transcend]

How do the professionals deal with such things? They train to the point that they don't have to think...they react by reverting to their training...that or they don't survive. Nobody ever knows exactly how well they will do ANYTHING under stress or duress yet somehow, people still mange to learn how to operate effectively and in some cases thrive under such pressure extremes.

If you don't think you'll be able to hit the broad side of a barn while stressed, get a weapon more forgiving of inaccuracy and suitable for home protection- a 12 gauge pump-gun with soft lead buckshot or frangible ammo.

The answer is not to throw up one's hands and give up but to train more.

Read my post just before the resurrection, I suggest just that. My point was exactly the same as yours. Professionals train their asses off to do what they do. The average homeowner, even one familiar with weapons, will not be able to perform the way a professional does...no matter how much they'd like to believe it.

 

[blue]

Were I not a property and gun owner, married and with kids, I probably would!

You devote time to train to defend your house?

You should (pick one):

A) Move, if your area terrifies you that much.

B) Devote the energy currently directed at "training" towards assembling a super-diet so you and your family never die.

C) Combine A and B, but no diet, instead form a hippie anti-gubberment militia armed to the teeth that focuses on training to defend their homes/patchouli fields from invaders.

D) Melt down your guns and create die-cast miniatures to occupy your time.

 

[llkoolkeg]

You devote time to train to defend your house? No...I truly enjoy shooting and hone-up partially in the minute event I'd need to defend my family, whose protection is my duty.

You should (pick one):

A) Move, if your area terrifies you that much. I love living amidst farms and hills where human population is sparse. I do not fear it in the least.

B) Devote the energy currently directed at "training" towards assembling a super-diet so you and your family never die. I am not a dietary specialist and have not reason to believe I'd ever be able to develop such a thing.

C) Combine A and B, but no diet, instead form a hippie anti-gubberment militia armed to the teeth that focuses on training to defend their homes/patchouli fields from invaders. I'm not that paranoid, a hippie, a gubmint-hater, a patchouli-afficionado or frankly interested in joining anything. I'll take the 5th on the "armed to the teeth" part, though.

D) Melt down your guns and create die-cast miniatures to occupy your time. My work and family occupy my time quite nicely. Hell, I even throw a leg over a top tube ever now and again. My guns are too nice to melt, I have no facilities in which to do so anyways and the only die I care to cast is at the craps table.

Deedle-deedle-dee...wubba, wubba, wubba.

 

[dhbuilder]

The average homeowner, even one familiar with weapons, will not be able to perform the way a professional does...no matter how much they'd like to believe it.

don't be too sure about that.

in fact, you don't have a frikken clue.
and it shows when you make a blanket statement like that.

i go quite often to a range where the "average homeowner" goes to stay current.
in those homes, if not invited or expected, you might get in.
but you wouldn't get out.
(i call first)

 

[Transcend]

Sure thing, Rambo. Lemme guess - the weaver stance is involved?

 

[Sandwich]

OH SNAP HE BROUGHT UP THE WEAVER STANCE​

 

[blue]

OH SNAP HE BROUGHT UP THE WEAVER STANCE​

Game, set, match, really.

 

[S.K.C.]

HAHAHA.....that was just too good to pass up.

Yeah, just your average former jarhead that now gets to drive fast, chase people, take reports of guys beating their wives, dads beating their kids/molesting them and going to homicides and robberies......it's fun.

Hey - cool!

I had 2 uncles that went to the Island - one served in WWII with a tank division and the other just missed the tail end of Korea.

You'll love this:

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/soundboards/play/1888/

 

[ultraNoob]

Read my post just before the resurrection, I suggest just that. My point was exactly the same as yours. Professionals train their asses off to do what they do. The average homeowner, even one familiar with weapons, will not be able to perform the way a professional does...no matter how much they'd like to believe it.

I've been shooting pistols since I was 11. So long as you've mastered the fundamentals, the skills will arise when you need them (home intruder at 3am, ended up staring at my Sig from the wrong side). Even if the intruder was a person professional trained and ready for you, you'd more than likely still get the drop on him cuz it's your territory.

 

[Transcend]

I've been shooting pistols since I was 11. So long as you've mastered the fundamentals, the skills will arise when you need them (home intruder at 3am, ended up staring at my Sig from the wrong side). Even if the intruder was a person professional trained and ready for you, you'd more than likely still get the drop on him cuz it's your territory.

I agree, only your skills are plinking at targets a few dozen yards away. Not firing from cover while being attacked in some method. I don't doubt pulling a gun on someone will deter them from ransacking your place, but actually hitting said intruder is a whole different story.

If you get attacked by paper targets, you'll be all set though.

 

[jdcamb]

.....actually hitting said intruder is a whole different story.

Why is that?

 

[JohnE]

the gangs in the military bit is true and very scary. there are also police departments, most recently in mid-tennessee, that have had their rookie schools infiltrated by gangs and gang members are graduating as police officers without retribution. if every citizen knew how the "criminal enterprise" works and how thick gangs are in this nation, everyone would take home defense much more seriously.

My first day in the Police Academy...8 guys get pulled out, never to be seen again. Fast forward 14 weeks, we ask our homeroom instructor, what ever happened to them? All 8 of them were wanted on felony warrants. Also had "reputed" gang members throwing signs at each other from across the room, and correcting the "gang expert" on tagging and whereabouts of gang leaders and other members.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

My first day in the Police Academy...8 guys get pulled out, never to be seen again. Fast forward 14 weeks, we ask our homeroom instructor, what ever happened to them? All 8 of them were wanted on felony warrants. Also had "reputed" gang members throwing signs at each other from across the room, and correcting the "gang expert" on tagging and whereabouts of gang leaders and other members.

OK, the gangs infiltrating the police stories are now increasing my level of paranoia. That said, I guess it's nothing new, probably happened with the old school gangs too...

 

[ultraNoob]

I agree, only your skills are plinking at targets a few dozen yards away. Not firing from cover while being attacked in some method. I don't doubt pulling a gun on someone will deter them from ransacking your place, but actually hitting said intruder is a whole different story.

If you get attacked by paper targets, you'll be all set though.

Sure professionals (aka, SWAT) train in room clearing, CQB, etc... but if you go up against such professional TEAMS.... TEAMS.... and you're solo... you're going down. (no I didn't stutter) BTW...Most professionals train against paper targets too.

It all comes down to the mindset of the person behind the weapon. If you commit to engaging your target, only hell, high water, or another bullet can keep you from emptying your magazine, reloading, and doing it again till you're out of ammo or he's down and stops twitching.

 

[MikeD]

OK, the gangs infiltrating the police stories are now increasing my level of paranoia. That said, I guess it's nothing new, probably happened with the old school gangs too...

C'mon, you've seen "Da Dephaated," right? (That's the Scorcese film, not some dutch crap.)

 

[Transcend]

If you commit to engaging your target, only hell, high water, or another bullet can keep you from emptying your magazine, reloading, and doing it again till you're out of ammo or he's down and stops twitching.

This is sort of my point. You can spray and pray and hope to hit something, meanwhile you are putting rounds through the sheetrock. A professional puts a single round down range and hits the target where it needs to be hit. The chance of them endagering your kids/neighbours is a whole lot less likely than you endagering your kids or neighbours.

Also, Swat etc do LOTS of run and gun training on the range, room clearing etc as wll as regular old range work.

 

[pnj]

I have a home protection question.

an individual is in their home and they have a gun for protecting their family. Where do they store the gun? How many points of entry do they have in their home? (front door, back door, three ground level windows, garage that leads to inside door, etc)

It would make sense to me, for that individual to have their gun on them at all times. This way, if they are in the basement or some other room, and an intruder breaks in, they will be armed and ready.

if they store their gun in the nightstand the gun is only going to be usefull if they can get to the nightstand. I realize that most breakins take place at night but that brings up another question. How many people can wake from a dead sleep and accurately shot a gun in the dark?

How many guns that are owned for home security used as such?

 

[ultraNoob]

This is sort of my point. You can spray and pray and hope to hit something, meanwhile you are putting rounds through the sheetrock. A professional puts a single round down range and hits the target where it needs to be hit. The chance of them endagering your kids/neighbours is a whole lot less likely than you endagering your kids or neighbours.

Also, Swat etc do LOTS of run and gun training on the range, room clearing etc as wll as regular old range work.

I guess you really didn't read my post well enough. The first sentence to that paragraph was, "It all comes down to the mindset of the person behind the weapon." I never said anything about pray and spray. BTW... I use prefragmented ammo to reduce penetration and collateral damage (I wish everyone would use prefrag for home defense)

If you're within shouting distance and you put rounds toward most professionals, they'll put their head down just like anyone (unless they already have a bead on you first or psycho). If they're invading your home and you put rounds at them, they'll most likely cut and run (unless you're the mark, in which case they'll keep coming).

 

[manimal]

wow, this is like listening to two dudes at a chess match arguing over which pokemon has the most overall power.

 

[S.K.C.]

Shhhhhhh!

Don't say anything - they might stop!

...it's more fun to watch.

 

[.Pit Steelers.]

I guess 22.'s are fun..Sorta........

 

[ultraNoob]

.22's rock! They're cheap to fire, easy to maintain, and very accurate within 50yds. 20cents a pop for .45Auto gets expensive quick compared to .22's (2cents each)

 

[jdcamb]

I have a lever action .22 carbine but my brother has had it so long he thinks its his. I need to get that back. I can shoot it with gloves on and it shoots great too. I would have to say its my favorite gun. My step grandfather gave it to me......

 

[.Pit Steelers.]

.22's rock! They're cheap to fire, easy to maintain, and very accurate within 50yds. 20cents a pop for .45Auto gets expensive quick compared to .22's (2cents each)

Yeah but 50 yard's isn't much.

 

[manimal]

a .22 long rifle cartridge is accurate out to waaaay past 50yds. it would be hard to hit much past that w/ a pistol but a .22 rifle is great for semi-long range plinking.

 

[.Pit Steelers.]

Im sure there fun for ****s and giggles but having something like a 5.56 with that much more stoping power compared to a .22 is just that much better. ake

 

[J_B]

a .22 long rifle cartridge is accurate out to waaaay past 50yds. it would be hard to hit much past that w/ a pistol but a .22 rifle is great for semi-long range plinking.

Definately......I just read up on about insurgents using .22 rifles outfitted with supressors against those hardchargers in the sandbox.

They are going for neck/face shots and armpits shots....where there is no body armor.

SKC: I still haven't checked out that link that you posted. I'll do it tomorrow. My work computer won't let me check it.

EDIT: I just clicked the link. That is kick ass!! I watched that movie before I went to bootcamp.