[RhinofromWA]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5084420/

MSNBC News Services
Updated: 6:20 p.m. ET June 01, 2004BAGHDAD, Iraq - A powerful Sunni Muslim tribal leader and critic of the U.S.-led occupation was named president of Iraq’s incoming government Tuesday after Iraqi leaders rejected the Americans’ preferred candidate.

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After the selection of Ghazi Mashal Ajil al-Yawer to the largely ceremonial position, officials announced that the entire interim government was due to take power on June 30, and the body moved quickly to begin its work.

The U.S.-picked Iraqi Governing Council decided to dissolve immediately to make way rather than wait until June 30. The incoming prime minister, Iyad Allawi, said his government would soon negotiate a crucial agreement on the status of U.S.-led international forces that will remain in Iraq.

Iraq still needs the presence of U.S.-led forces “to help in defeating the enemies of Iraq,” Allawi said at a welcoming ceremony for the new government. “We will enter into alliances with our allies to accomplish that.”

The United States and Britain circulated a revised resolution at the United Nations on Tuesday that would end the mandate for the multinational force by January 2006 at the latest and give the new interim government control over the army and police.

The U.S.-led occupation authority will continue to run Iraq until June 30, a senior Bush administration official said
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK, against US wishes, a new leader al-Yawer(and critic of US led occupation) is chosen. Yet, the people on the street feel that he was hand picked by the US/Bush.....

I don't know if they would be happy with anyone. (kinda like the US in 2000 ) The US put aside their bruised ego from losing their pick, Puchachi (he said no to the job, correct?) and are saying that they are ready to work with who the council chose for a transitional leader.

I guess no matter what happens we will be the really pathetic puppeteers behind the curtain.

Who better for the Iraqi people than someone who has voiced oposition for the US being in Iraq to act as leader? For 6mos......

 

[Serial Midget]

I am afraid there is no way to "win" the peace and hearts of the Iraqi people - so far they have no reason to trust us or be thankful for us thrusting "liberty" upon them.




Vote Kerry 2004

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
so far they have no reason to be thankful for us thrusting "liberty" upon them.

Already posted once, but here are a couple reasons:

Economy: Iraq’s economy is on the path to recovery and prosperity:
l Unemployment has fallen by nearly one-half over the past year.
l Inflation is a quarter of what it was before the war.
l For the first time in decades, Iraqi marketplaces are filled with consumer goods.
l The Coalition Provisional Authority has created more than 395,000 jobs for Iraqis.
Education
l All 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open.
l Almost 2,500 schools have been rehabilitated
l 32,000 secondary school teachers and administrative staff have been trained;
l More than 8.7 million textbooks have been printed and distributed.
Health Care:
l Health care spending in Iraq is 30 times greater than its pre-war levels.
l All 240 hospitals and more than 1,200 health clinics are open.
l More than 5 million children have been immunized for measles, mumps and rubella.
Essential Services: Essential services are improving:
l Electricity generation has surpassed prewar levels and is more evenly distributed.
l The number of telephone subscribers, including cell phones, is nearly one-third above pre-war levels.
l As of May 4, estimated crude oil export revenue was more than $5.6 billion for 2004.
Governance and Political Freedoms:
l The Transitional Administrative Law (TAL), which was signed by all members of the Iraqi Governing Council in March, will govern Iraq’s transition period beginning June 30. Assurances include:
l freedom of religion;
l freedom of expression;
l freedom of the press (170 newspapers are being published in Iraq); and
l freedom of assembly.
l The TAL also calls for equal rights for all citizens regardless of ethnicity, denomination or sex.
l More than 90 percent of Iraqi towns and provinces have local councils.
l More than half of Iraqis are active in community affairs, and one in five belongs to a non-governmental organization.
l Twelve government ministries have transitioned to full Iraqi authority.
l Iraq has a functioning judiciary to provide equal justice for all.
Security
l Saddam Hussein is in prison. His sons are dead. Forty-six of the 55 “most-wanted” have been captured or killed.
l More than 200,000 Iraqis are serving in their country’s security forces.
l More than 30 countries are contributing some 25,000 troops to help Iraq.

 

[Serial Midget]

Yes, were are the masters of propaganda. You'd think they would be greatful.

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Already posted once, but here are a couple reasons:

Economy: Iraq’s economy is on the path to recovery and prosperity:
l Unemployment has fallen by nearly one-half over the past year.
l Inflation is a quarter of what it was before the war.
l For the first time in decades, Iraqi marketplaces are filled with consumer goods.
l The Coalition Provisional Authority has created more than 395,000 jobs for Iraqis.
Education
l All 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open.
l Almost 2,500 schools have been rehabilitated
l 32,000 secondary school teachers and administrative staff have been trained;
l More than 8.7 million textbooks have been printed and distributed.
Health Care:
l Health care spending in Iraq is 30 times greater than its pre-war levels.
l All 240 hospitals and more than 1,200 health clinics are open.
l More than 5 million children have been immunized for measles, mumps and rubella.
Essential Services: Essential services are improving:
l Electricity generation has surpassed prewar levels and is more evenly distributed.
l The number of telephone subscribers, including cell phones, is nearly one-third above pre-war levels.
l As of May 4, estimated crude oil export revenue was more than $5.6 billion for 2004.
Governance and Political Freedoms:
l The Transitional Administrative Law (TAL), which was signed by all members of the Iraqi Governing Council in March, will govern Iraq’s transition period beginning June 30. Assurances include:
l freedom of religion;
l freedom of expression;
l freedom of the press (170 newspapers are being published in Iraq); and
l freedom of assembly.
l The TAL also calls for equal rights for all citizens regardless of ethnicity, denomination or sex.
l More than 90 percent of Iraqi towns and provinces have local councils.
l More than half of Iraqis are active in community affairs, and one in five belongs to a non-governmental organization.
l Twelve government ministries have transitioned to full Iraqi authority.
l Iraq has a functioning judiciary to provide equal justice for all.
Security
l Saddam Hussein is in prison. His sons are dead. Forty-six of the 55 “most-wanted” have been captured or killed.
l More than 200,000 Iraqis are serving in their country’s security forces.
l More than 30 countries are contributing some 25,000 troops to help Iraq.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Yes, were are the masters of propaganda. You'd think they would be greatful.

Ok, and how is Vote Kerry going to help?

 

[Skookum]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Ok, and how is Vote Kerry going to help?

IF there was a democrat in office we might kill some North Korean ass and actually FIND weapons of mass destruction.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by Skookum
IF there was a democrat in office we might kill some North Korean ass and actually FIND weapons of mass destruction.

Its not that I disagree with the thought of whipping NK into shape, but, our military is only so big and can only handle so much at a time. We're a bit preoccupied at the moment, i believe. Also, that still doesnt answer how a democrat would change the iraq situation. After all, even Bill Clinton thought we should go...so what's the democrat's real stance now that we're there?

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
...so what's the democrat's real stance now that we're there?

Stance.....use it to get us into office. What happens after doesn't really matter, we can figure it out later.

 

[Skookum]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Its not that I disagree with the thought of whipping NK into shape, but, our military is only so big and can only handle so much at a time. We're a bit preoccupied at the moment, i believe. Also, that still doesnt answer how a democrat would change the iraq situation. After all, even Bill Clinton thought we should go...so what's the democrat's real stance now that we're there?

how the hell should i know, i'm not a democrat.... but we should shore up and have a tactically sound plan in case China starts trippin out. They've been wanting Taiwan back and been threatening to forcibly take it for years. There seems to be a powderkeg everywhere, wonder if this world police thing is such a good job......

i don't think attacking N. Korea is such a bright idea though, they kicked our ass last time we were there, this time we could kick theirs but they're awful close to Japan for Nukey Fun Time!

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by Skookum

i don't think attacking N. Korea is such a bright idea though, they kicked our ass last time we were there, this time we could kick theirs but they're awful close to Japan for Nukey Fun Time!

Well, whether we do anything or not, they still have Japan at a button's push to destruction, so its all a big mess right now. everywhere is a mess. big weapons and big money make the world a mess. but i guess if everyone were poor and only had sticks they'd fight with those too. what can you do?

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
...what can you do?

Learn how to throw rocks.

 

[valve bouncer]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
Already posted once, but here are a couple reasons:

Economy: Iraq’s economy is on the path to recovery and prosperity:
l Unemployment has fallen by nearly one-half over the past year.
l Inflation is a quarter of what it was before the war.
l For the first time in decades, Iraqi marketplaces are filled with \
\ so on and so on....
l \.

Source Shirley. I've heard at least some of those "facts" are bullsh*t.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by valve bouncer
Source Shirley. I've heard at least some of those "facts" are bullsh*t.

I am the source. That should be good enough

 

[Serial Midget]

Originally posted by valve bouncer
Source Shirley. I've heard at least some of those "facts" are bullsh*t.

Most of those "facts" are BS and sound very much like the crap Georgie spouts about the domestic situation as well. I suspect the source is a Republican Apologist organization.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by Serial Midget
Republican Apologist organization.

'

Id say that about sums up the Department of Defense.

 

[valve bouncer]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
I am the source. That should be good enough

Whoops: ....forgot about the new "out ya arse" rule.
You're not completely wrong but you're not completely right either
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/reynolds.asp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/combatend.asp

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by valve bouncer
Whoops: ....forgot about the new "out ya arse" rule.
You're not completely wrong but you're not completely right either
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/reynolds.asp
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/combatend.asp

No man, these are actual numbers I got from DoD. Not some internet source. Thats why I cant post a link.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by valve bouncer
Whoops: ....forgot about the new "out ya arse" rule.

I think you've been in Japan too long... they turned you into a Gaysha.

 

[valve bouncer]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
No man, these are actual numbers I got from DoD. Not some internet source. Thats why I cant post a link.

That's convenient.

 

[valve bouncer]

Originally posted by LordOpie
I think you've been in Japan too long... they turned you into a Gaysha.

Mmmmmmm......Loopie- Wing Master, Shirley- Tail Gunner......I wonder who the bombardier is? N8?

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by valve bouncer
Mmmmmmm......Loopie- Wing Master, Shirley- Tail Gunner......I wonder who the bombardier is? N8?

BINGO!:devil:

 

[MMike]

I heard that all of the houses in Iraq are now made out of gingerbread and gum-drops too!

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by MMike
gingerbread and gum-drops

no, thats severedheads and bomb-drops

 

[fluff]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
No man, these are actual numbers I got from DoD. Not some internet source. Thats why I cant post a link.

And the DOD got them from a National Guardsman?

Good to see an authoritarian source...

Your facts reviewed:

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by fluff
And the DOD got them from a National Guardsman?

Good to see an authoritarian source...

Your facts reviewed:

Odd how most of the souldiers letters 'facts' don't end up on BS's list.

Electricity and hospitals are about it and they don't wuote the same levels....mostly.

Strange that after the unavoidable bad things that happen in war (service interuption and infrustructure breakdowns etc) that having them rebuilt is such a negative thing. I guess you would be happiest if nothing was done and they were left to sit in the sand with no clothes..... Then people would have plenty to complain about....and wouldn't have to half check sources to 'prove' a souldiers letter wrong.

Why aren't reconstruction projects mentioned in the media at large? Why can't both the good and bad be reported?

Local news around here is all abotu who killed who, how many people died in a freeway accident, or wich building burned down last night. Why? trauma gets raitings. I am not saying that these events shouldn't be reported or if anyone really wants to watch a goody-goody story.....because we all enjoy watching trama stories over goody-goody stories.

One of my biggest gripes with statistics is they can be shapped and molded into what you want them to say. I have said it before....given enough data and time I could prove I am an elderly black female with statistics.

Quoting statistical "facts" is weighed in the favor of whoever is reporting it. It is the essence of the political 'spin' of information. One set of facts tells many different stories.

So even the orweliantimes is full of it by using their facts as they say exactly what they want them to. Does this mean they are the only sane ones and have a true handle on the situation? No it means they have lead themselves (thru stats) to prove their point. That is all they needed....damn any thing positive that could be said.



But I am sure that the Frank guy @ Owelliantimes has plenty of friends patting him on the back. Thinking outside teh hive mentality indeed. Both sides are living in a hive but on different trees.

Rhino

I even waded thru the comment section.

 

[fluff]

I just think facts should be facts and propaganda should not be passed off as facts.

Not such a tricky concept really.

 

[MMike]

Originally posted by fluff
I just think facts should be facts and propaganda should not be passed off as facts.

Not such a tricky concept really.

So...so... uhhh.. facts are prop...no wait... propag... oh... um...sigh


"I want you to stay here, and make 'e doesn't leave."

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by fluff
I just think facts should be facts and propaganda should not be passed off as facts.

Not such a tricky concept really.

Facts are used as propaganda....that is what gives political blustering a hint of reality. Odds are if you make facts fit with what you are debating....it is squed.

Statistical facts are a nasty game to play.

Facts are used as propaganda....

Propaganda are, at least based on, facts.

It is all how you spin it to your advantage.....to win a political campaign, a debate, or a war.

Where does Propaganda stop and "non-biased" facts begin? Well that is up to the person reading the "facts" and that is were the judgment (introducing personal bias) of that person comes to play.