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New law that will put serial #'s on AMMO?

-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
My neighbor is a big enthusiast... I'm more of a fair-weather friend.

anyway, he told me that come January, here in CA at least, all pistol ammo will have a unique serial# imprinted on either the casing or the actual bullet... and they will all be registered.

Anyone heard anything about this? My neighbor is a great guy, but he tends to over-react to this kinda stuff. He thought that it was the end of the world when Obama was elected and totally stocked up. Turns out that Obama hasnt' passed a single law related to firearms. So I take his stuff with a grain of powder. ;)
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
wha??
what about those people who reload their own ammo and have existing shells? putting a serial # on a bullet would make a little more sense, but that wont help when the bullet deforms upon impact
and only pistol rounds?
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Well, it would be nice to have a tracking system. Might actually solve a few crimes.
 

clarkenstein

Monkey
Nov 28, 2008
244
0
wow - i know this idea was tossed around for a long time, surprised it actually made it through.

i wonder how much effort it'll take to take a file to the casing and scratch the numbers out? or maybe criminals will start cleaning their brass up after they shoot up a place, so it'll give cops more time to get to a crime scene and catch 'em?
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,029
7,549
Source for the wild assertion? (I bet a forwarded email...) :rofl:
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
I'm guessing his information came from an updated version of this.

Personally I don't think this would have any impact on gun crimes - organized criminals,gangs and psychopaths will find their way the get black market bullets from other parts of the world or, as previously stated, simply make their own.

Where I live I'd guess at least 20 percent of all hunters make their own ammo; everyone in Montana hunts and could use a little extra income. We sell ammo on the side of the road like fireworks.
 
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IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Great idea cause we all know criminals will line up to register their bullets, just like they do their guns...
Toshi would know, but I believe all Schedules 1/2 controlled substances can be traced back to the origin of purchase. Would be the same deal for this I'd imagine. (Unless you reload your own brass).
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
:rolleyes: Clearly not recreational drugs. Also, I believe medical marijuana (schedule 1 for some odd reason) CAN be traced by strain. The gov't grow ops are pretty well documented.
it can be traced by strain, but thats about it. every grower does something a little different in their growing techniques making identification almost impossible

and yes, legal growing thats allowed by the State government is very well documented.
NM for example has a very extensive permit process that can cost upwards of $25k in just permit fees. everything is strictly regulated by the tax bureau too.

were you referring to tracing pharmaceutical schedule 1/2 drugs?
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,029
7,549
Toshi would know, but I believe all Schedules 1/2 controlled substances can be traced back to the origin of purchase. Would be the same deal for this I'd imagine. (Unless you reload your own brass).
No idea actually. Haven't had to prescribe anything since 2009, praise be to teh FSM
 

-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
As I said it was my neighbor who told me and he's an NRA toting vietnam vet. Goes shooting every week and drives around in a huge bronco with his shooting dummy riding shotgun while he bitches about Obama. Actually a very cool and colorful guy despite my left leaning views. He's helped consult me on some home improvement projects as well.

Oh, and his son (23) brews... so nice neighbor to have.
 

-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
ok... looks like there is definately someting going on...
Got this from "sportsman's guide", a camping/hunting mail order place.

"California AB 962 is scheduled to go into effect February 1, 2011. I'm just reminding you of what's ahead, in case you want to stock up now.

Among other regulations, AB 962 will:

Ban all mail-order and Internet sales of ammunition
Require drivers license and thumb print for purchase of ammo
Require face to face transaction"
 

-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
BILL NUMBER: AB 962 CHAPTERED
BILL TEXT

CHAPTER 628
FILED WITH SECRETARY OF STATE OCTOBER 11, 2009
APPROVED BY GOVERNOR OCTOBER 11, 2009
PASSED THE SENATE SEPTEMBER 10, 2009
PASSED THE ASSEMBLY SEPTEMBER 11, 2009
AMENDED IN SENATE SEPTEMBER 4, 2009
AMENDED IN SENATE JUNE 22, 2009
AMENDED IN ASSEMBLY JUNE 1, 2009
INTRODUCED BY Assembly Member De Leon (Coauthor: Assembly Member Bonnie Lowenthal)

FEBRUARY 26, 2009

An act to amend Section 12316 of, to add Sections 12317 and 12318 to, to add Article 3.5 (commencing with Section 12060) to Chapter 1 of, to add a heading for Chapter 2.6 (commencing with Section 12316) to, and to repeal the heading of Chapter 2.6 (commencing with Section 12320) of, Title 2 of Part 4 of, the Penal Code, relating to ammunition.

LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL'S DIGEST

AB 962, De Leon. Ammunition.

Existing law generally regulates the sale of ammunition.

The bill would provide that no handgun ammunition vendor, as defined, shall sell, offer for sale, or display for sale, any handgun ammunition in a manner that allows that ammunition to be accessible to a purchaser without the assistance of the vendor or employee thereof.

Existing law generally regulates what information is required to be obtained in connection with the transfer of ammunition.

This bill would, subject to exceptions, commencing February 1, 2011, require handgun ammunition vendors to obtain a thumbprint and other information from ammunition purchasers, as specified. A violation of these provisions would be a misdemeanor.

This bill would provide that a person enjoined from engaging in activity associated with a criminal street gang, as specified, would be prohibited from having under his or her possession, custody, or control, any ammunition. Violation of these provisions would be a misdemeanor.

The bill would prohibit supplying or delivering, as specified, handgun ammunition to prohibited persons, as described, by persons or others who know, or by using reasonable care should know, that the recipient is a person prohibited from possessing ammunition or a minor prohibited from possessing ammunition, as specified. Violation of these provisions is a misdemeanor with specified penalties.

The bill would provide, subject to exceptions, that commencing February 1, 2011, the delivery or transfer of ownership of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face transaction, with the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide evidence of identity of the purchaser or other transferee. A violation of these provisions would be a misdemeanor.

By creating new crimes, this bill would impose a state-mandated local program.

The California Constitution requires the state to reimburse local agencies and school districts for certain costs mandated by the state. Statutory provisions establish procedures for making that reimbursement.

This bill would provide that no reimbursement is required by this act for a specified reason.

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:



SECTION 1. This act shall be known, and may be cited, as the Anti-Gang Neighborhood Protection Act of 2009.



SEC. 2.

Article 3.5 (commencing with Section 12060) is added to Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4 of the Penal Code, to read:

Article 3.5. Handgun Ammunition Vendors
 

-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
12060.linkAs used in this article, the following terms apply:

(a) "Department" means the Department of Justice.
(b) "Handgun ammunition" means handgun ammunition as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12323, but excluding ammunition designed and intended to be used in an "antique firearm" as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code. Handgun ammunition does not include blanks.
(c) "Handgun ammunition vendor" or "vendor" means any person, firm, corporation, dealer, or any other business enterprise that is engaged in the retail sale of any handgun ammunition, or that holds itself out as engaged in the business of selling any handgun ammunition.
12061. (a)linkA vendor shall comply with all of the following conditions, requirements and prohibitions:

(1) A vendor shall not permit any employee who the vendor knows or reasonably should know is a person described in Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code to handle, sell, or deliver handgun ammunition in the course and scope of his or her employment.
(2) A vendor shall not sell or otherwise transfer ownership of, offer for sale or otherwise offer to transfer ownership of, or display for sale or display for transfer of ownership of any handgun ammunition in a manner that allows that ammunition to be accessible to a purchaser or transferee without the assistance of the vendor or employee thereof.
(3) Commencing February 1, 2011, a vendor shall not sell or otherwise transfer ownership of any handgun ammunition without, at the time of delivery, legibly recording the following information:
(A) The date of the sale or other transaction.
(B) The purchaser's or transferee's driver's license or other identification number and the state in which it was issued.
(C) The brand, type, and amount of ammunition sold or otherwise transferred.
(D) The purchaser's or transferee's signature.
(E) The name of the salesperson who processed the sale or other transaction.
(F) The right thumbprint of the purchaser or transferee on the above form.
(G) The purchaser's or transferee's full residential address and telephone number.
(H) The purchaser's or transferee's date of birth.
(4) Commencing February 1, 2011, the records required by this section shall be maintained on the premises of the vendor for a period of not less than five years from the date of the recorded transfer.
(5) Commencing February 1, 2011, the records referred to in paragraph (3) shall be subject to inspection at any time during normal business hours by any peace officer employed by a sheriff, city police department, or district attorney as provided in subdivision (a) of Section 830.1, or employed by the department as provided in subdivision (b) of Section 830.1, provided the officer is conducting an investigation where access to those records is or may be relevant to that investigation, is seeking information about persons prohibited from owning a firearm or ammunition, or is engaged in ensuring compliance with the Dangerous Weapons Control Law (Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 12000) of Title 2 of Part 4), or any other laws pertaining to firearms or ammunition. The records shall also be subject to inspection at any time during normal business hours by any other employee of the department, provided that employee is conducting an investigation where access to those records is or may be relevant to that investigation, is seeking information about persons prohibited from owning a firearm or ammunition, or is engaged in ensuring compliance with the Dangerous Weapons Control Law (Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 12000) of Title 2 of Part 4), or any other laws pertaining to firearms or ammunition.
(6) Commencing February 1, 2011, the vendor shall not knowingly make a false entry in, fail to make a required entry in, fail to obtain the required thumbprint, or otherwise fail to maintain in the required manner records prepared in accordance with paragraph (2). If the right thumbprint is not available, then the vendor shall have the purchaser or transferee use his or her left thumb, or any available finger, and shall so indicate on the form. If the purchaser or transferee is physically unable to provide a thumbprint or fingerprint, the vendor shall so indicate on the form.
(7) Commencing February 1, 2011, no vendor shall refuse to permit a person authorized under paragraph (5) to examine any record prepared in accordance with this section during any inspection conducted pursuant to this section, or refuse to permit the use of any record or information by those persons. (b) Paragraph (3) of subdivision (a) shall not apply to or affect sales or other transfers of ownership of handgun ammunition by handgun ammunition vendors to any of the following, if properly identified:
(1) A person licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(2) A handgun ammunition vendor.
(3) A person who is on the centralized list maintained by the department pursuant to Section 12083.
(4) A target facility which holds a business or regulatory license.
(5) Gunsmiths.
(6) Wholesalers.
(7) Manufacturers or importers of firearms licensed pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(8) Sales or other transfers of ownership made to authorized law enforcement representatives of cities, counties, cities and counties, or state or federal governments for exclusive use by those government agencies if, prior to the delivery, transfer, or sale of handgun ammunition, written authorization from the head of the agency authorizing the transaction is presented to the person from whom the purchase, delivery, or transfer is being made. Proper written authorization is defined as verifiable written certification from the head of the agency by which the purchaser, transferee, or person otherwise acquiring ownership is employed, identifying the employee as an individual authorized to conduct the transaction, and authorizing the transaction for the exclusive use of the agency by which he or she is employed. (c) (1) A violation of paragraph (3), (4), (6), or (7) of subdivision (a) is a misdemeanor. (2) The provisions of this subdivision are cumulative, and shall not be construed as restricting the application of any other law. However, an act or omission punishable in different ways by different provisions of law shall not be punished under more than one provision.
SEC. 3. A heading for Chapter 2.6 of Title 2 of Part 4 is added to the Penal Code, immediately preceding Section 12316, to read:

CHAPTER 2.6. AMMUNITION
 

-BB-

I broke all the rules, but somehow still became mo
Sep 6, 2001
4,254
28
Livin it up in the O.C.
SEC. 5. Section 12316 of the Penal Code is amended to read:

12316. (a)link(1) Any person, corporation, or dealer who does any of the following shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for a term not to exceed six months, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the imprisonment and fine:
(A) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition to a person under 18 years of age.
(B) Sells any ammunition or reloaded ammunition designed and intended for use in a handgun to a person under 21 years of age. As used in this subparagraph, "ammunition" means handgun ammunition as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12323. Where ammunition or reloaded ammunition may be used in both a rifle and a handgun, it may be sold to a person who is at least 18 years of age, but less than 21 years of age, if the vendor reasonably believes that the ammunition is being acquired for use in a rifle and not a handgun.
(C) Supplies, delivers, or gives possession of any ammunition to any minor who he or she knows, or using reasonable care should know, is prohibited from possessing that ammunition at that time pursuant to Section 12101.
(2) Proof that a person, corporation, or dealer, or his or her agent or employee, demanded, was shown, and acted in reasonable reliance upon, bona fide evidence of majority and identity shall be a defense to any criminal prosecution under this subdivision. As used in this subdivision, "bona fide evidence of majority and identity" means a document issued by a federal, state, county, or municipal government, or subdivision or agency thereof, including, but not limited to, a motor vehicle operator's license, California state identification card, identification card issued to a member of the Armed Forces, or other form of identification that bears the name, date of birth, description, and picture of the person.
(b)link(1) No person prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code shall own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition.
(2) For purposes of this subdivision, "ammunition" shall include, but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with a deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include blanks.
(3) A violation of paragraph (1) of this subdivision is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not to exceed one year or in the state prison, by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.
(4) A person who is not prohibited by paragraph (1) from owning, possessing, or having under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition, but who is enjoined from engaging in activity pursuant to an injunction issued pursuant to Section 3479 of the Civil Code against that person as a member of a criminal street gang, as defined in Section 186.22, may not own, possess, or have under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition.
(5) A violation of paragraph (4) of this subdivision is a misdemeanor.
(c)linkUnless it is with the written permission of the school district superintendent, his or her designee, or equivalent school authority, no person shall carry ammunition or reloaded ammunition onto school grounds, except sworn law enforcement officers acting within the scope of their duties or persons exempted under subparagraph (A) of paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) of Section 12027. This subdivision shall not apply to a duly appointed peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the federal government who is carrying out official duties while in California, any person summoned by any of these officers to assist in making an arrest or preserving the peace while he or she is actually engaged in assisting the officer, a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, a person holding a valid license to carry the firearm pursuant to Article 3 (commencing with Section 12050) of Chapter 1 of Title 2 of Part 4, or an armored vehicle guard, who is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, as defined in subdivision (e) of Section 7521 of the Business and Professions Code. A violation of this subdivision is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for a term not to exceed six months, a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or both the imprisonment and fine.

(d)link(1) A violation of paragraph (1) or (4) of subdivision (b) is justifiable where all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person found the ammunition or reloaded ammunition or took the ammunition or reloaded ammunition from a person who was committing a crime against him or her.
(B) The person possessed the ammunition or reloaded ammunition no longer than was necessary to deliver or transport the ammunition or reloaded ammunition to a law enforcement agency for that agency's disposition according to law.
(C) The person is prohibited from possessing any ammunition or reloaded ammunition solely because that person is prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm only by virtue of Section 12021 or ammunition or reloaded ammunition because of paragraph (4) of subdivision (b).
(2) Upon the trial for violating paragraph (1) or (4) of subdivision (b), the trier of fact shall determine whether the defendant is subject to the exemption created by this subdivision.
(3) The defendant has the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence that he or she is subject to the exemption provided by this subdivision.


SEC. 6. Section 12317 is added to the Penal Code, to read:

12317. (a)linkAny person, corporation, or firm who supplies, delivers, sells, or gives possession or control of, any ammunition to any person who he or she knows or using reasonable care should know is prohibited from owning, possessing, or having under his or her custody or control, any ammunition or reloaded ammunition pursuant to paragraph (1) or (4) of subdivision (b) of Section 12316, is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, or a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.

(b)linkThe provisions of this section are cumulative and shall not be construed as restricting the application of any other law. However, an act or omission punishable in different ways by this section and another provision of law shall not be punished under more than one provision.

(c)linkFor purposes of this section, "ammunition" shall include, but not be limited to, any bullet, cartridge, magazine, clip, speed loader, autoloader, or projectile capable of being fired from a firearm with deadly consequence. "Ammunition" does not include blanks.



SEC. 7. Section 12318 is added to the Penal Code, to read:

12318. (a)linkCommencing February 1, 2011, the delivery or transfer of ownership of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee. A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.

(b)linkFor purposes of this section:

(1) "Bona fide evidence of identity" means a document issued by a federal, state, county, or municipal government, or subdivision or agency thereof, including, but not limited to, a motor vehicle operator's license, state identification card, identification card issued to a member of the Armed Forces, or other form of identification that bears the name, date of birth, description, and picture of the person.
(2) "Handgun ammunition" means handgun ammunition as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 12323, but excluding ammunition designed and intended to be used in an "antique firearm" as defined in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code. Handgun ammunition does not include blanks.
(3) "Handgun ammunition vendor" has the same meaning as set forth in Section 12060.
(c)linkSubdivision (a) shall not apply to or affect the deliveries, transfers, or sales of, handgun ammunition to any of the following:

(1) Authorized law enforcement representatives of cities, counties, cities and counties, or state and federal governments for exclusive use by those government agencies if, prior to the delivery, transfer, or sale of the handgun ammunition, written authorization from the head of the agency employing the purchaser or transferee, is obtained identifying the employee as an individual authorized to conduct the transaction, and authorizing the transaction for the exclusive use of the agency employing the individual.
(2) Sworn peace officers, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who are authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of their duties.
(3) Importers and manufacturers of handgun ammunition or firearms licensed to engage in business pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) Persons who are on the centralized list maintained by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12083.
(5) Persons whose licensed premises are outside this state who are licensed as dealers or collectors of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(6) Persons licensed as collectors of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto whose licensed premises are within this state who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071.
(7) A handgun ammunition vendor.
(8) A consultant-evaluator, as defined in subdivision (s) of Section 12001.


SEC. 8. The heading of Chapter 2.6 (commencing with Section 12320) of Title 2 of Part 4 of the Penal Code is repealed.



SEC. 9. No reimbursement is required by this act pursuant to Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California Constitution because the only costs that may be incurred by a local agency or school district will be incurred because this act creates a new crime or infraction, eliminates a crime or infraction, or changes the penalty for a crime or infraction, within the meaning of Section 17556 of the Government Code, or changes the definition of a crime within the meaning of Section 6 of Article XIII B of the California Constitution.