[kidwoo]

So then, since my MM are pointing the wrong way I'm going to need some new rubber...

Just roll backwards and it'll be awesome!!


That MM is actually a good one be talking about. The center knobs have no directional bias at all.....same coming and going. The only bias is the sideknobs so the only thing affected will be leaned over cornering. Just try it. I absolutely guarentee it won't be worse.

As far as that spikey mud tire, this is where I bow out. I ride in CA all summer

Is that the specialized one?

 

[Acadian]

Like I said, the Excavator is the only decent rear tire I've ever used. It doesn't say much because the amount of good rear tires out there I can count on 2-3 fingers. But at least they have some good blocks that not only bite in medium/soft dirt but on hard pack too.

do you run the Excavator stock or did you trim it?

I can see how slightly ramping the center knobs would make the tire roll faster. Even opening the channel slightly, by taking some of the transition knob off (the outer edge) would probably help the side knob dig in.

Whatever tire Kidwoo doesn't like - that's the one I want. and I'll run it inside out!

 

[WParsons]

That's one area where I think you and I would disagree WP. That may have just as much to do with dirt conditions and 'riding style' whatever that is.... Most of my riding is in crappy, super dry moon dust type dirt where I just gave up years ago and just look for tires that have good support AFTER you've already broken them loose.....you know.....the drifting 'slam pocket'

I would argue that even with something like a minion dhf, partially leaned over, you're still getting enough bite between the edges of the center and sideknobs for decent braking, even though you're technically right over the channel. And in most cases, that channel is so beneficial for cornering, it's not worth messing with. With the dhf in particular, there aren't a whole lot of angles where a good portion of the knobs aren't engaged (square profile, yadaa yadda).

Yes I would agree with that. But most of what you are referring too I'm assuming is riding "crappy, super dry moon dust type dirt" where you can get away with a little squirmy controlled drifting.... and damn its fun because I often see that where I ride.

Let's face it, riding in the dry you can ride most tires and be pleased with the outcome. Its when conditions are snotty is when you really see how knob design will affect your riding. I cut my teeth riding the North Shore and went through quite the quick learning curve regarding tires. That's one place where a typically good performing tire in the dry will have the complete opposite outcome. Its a great testing ground.

Remember those Intense FRO tires when they first came out in like 2001/2002? EVERYONE I knew swore by those as the best thing ever. I tried them on my regular training trail, and the first wet root I hit I was down before I even knew what happened. Couldn't hold a line anywhere. Gave 'em away the next day.

 

[WParsons]

do you run the Excavator stock or did you trim it?

I can see how slightly ramping the center knobs would make the tire roll faster. Even opening the channel slightly, by taking some of the transition knob off (the outer edge) would probably help the side knob dig in.

Whatever tire Kiwdwoo doesn't like - that's the one I want. and I'll run it inside out!

I don't have a lot of saddle time on them because it was on a loaner bike, but the time I did it was a brand new stock tire. A friend used to say good things about them, and we all bugged him about running Kendas, but damn it he was right on with the excavator. I think they have a winner with that tire, but I've only ridden it in one type of soil condition.

All this tire geekery is making me thirsty.

 

[OGRipper]

Let's face it, riding in the dry you can ride most tires and be pleased with the outcome. Its when conditions are snotty is when you really see how knob design will affect your riding.

I would agree that's true if we're talking about gorgeous dry B.C. hardpack, but the moon dust 'Woo is talking about is very different, it's super loose and soft, and there are some tires that just don't work for beans in that stuff.

And I'll run Acadian's tires inside out and backwards.

 

[kidwoo]

Let's face it, riding in the dry you can ride most tires and be pleased with the outcome. Its when conditions are snotty is when you really see how knob design will affect your riding. I cut my teeth riding the North Shore and went through quite the quick learning curve regarding tires. That's one place where a typically good performing tire in the dry will have the complete opposite outcome. Its a great testing ground.

Oh that definitely goes both ways
I'm not talking about 'dry' dirt though. I'm talking about tire deep dust.
I've seen some guys that leave me in the next zip code in the slop on their back more than their bike in the crap around here (northstar and mammoth). And I admit, it always takes me a a few runs to get comfy again riding up there in or after the rain. You're right about mud making tire choice more important but it comes into play at the other extreme too. I have a catalogue of good 'dust tires' that are what I go to.

But I agree, everything in between is child's play

Whatever tire Kidwoo doesn't like - that's the one I want. and I'll run it inside out!

You go fasss now!!!

 

[WParsons]

But riding in silt and mega dust is so much fun! After spending 10 years riding in Vancouver, I'm loving dusty dry Kamloops, BC. Nothing like dust face shots!

 

[Acadian]

You go fasss now!!!

only if I have boradband rims and T4 compound.

 

[kidwoo]

But riding in silt and mega dust is so much fun! After spending 10 years riding in Vancouver, I'm loving dusty dry Kamloops, BC. Nothing like dust face shots!

As long as you're in front

 

[dfinn]

I'll add this one too since that last one isn't in their dh lineup any more.

Based on the angle of the side knobs, this thing should be rolling towards you.

...

But okay, say it's supposed to be run in the other direction so those ramps are on the right side. Now you have sideknobs that cup dirt for pedaling but not as well as braking....this a dh tire remember. And then the sidenknobs are now angled left when the tire is pointing right....specifically the direction you're trying to NOT slide.

I'm confused (don't worry, this happens often), I'm having trouble visualizing what you're saying. Let's say this tire is rolling away from you, which I guess is what they intended. Strictly speaking about the side knobs, it makes sense in my head that they should be facing this way. If you're leaned over, and the side knob is like this "/" then wouldn't it be grabbing dirt and pulling you into the turn, allowing you to lean over harder w/o washing out?

So when you say "then the sidenknobs are now angled left when the tire is pointing right", it seems the opposite to me, what am I missing here?

 

[landcruiser]

What is everyone's expert opinion on this tire?

As far as that spikey mud tire, this is where I bow out. I ride in CA all summer

Is that the specialized one?

It is a Specialized, but it's not a mud tire.

The HillBilly is designed as a "dry spike." It has bite to dig into loam, damp soil, anything short of deep/extended mud, but it's still fast on drier and harder surfaces. Compared to a mud spike, the knobs are shorter and stouter. They won't squirm as much on rock, but they'll dig in deeper than any flatter knobs on a butcher/minion style tire. They can hold their own in pretty much anything short of deep mud or deep sand/dust.

It probably won't hold up to well at Northstar unless it's October. I don't know yet since I sat out last season with a bum knee and I haven't heard of anyone else trying them out there either. I'm just guessing that the knobs won't have the surface area on their sides to prevent washing out in that sort of dry looseness. For curiosity's sake I do plan on trying them there anyway and I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Lelandjt]

Let's say this tire is rolling away from you, which I guess is what they intended. If you're leaned over, and the side knob is like this "/" then wouldn't it be grabbing dirt and pulling you into the turn, allowing you to lean over harder w/o washing out?

Your "/" is what the side knob looks like when viewed from above. My style of riding involves touching the ground with the bottom of the tire. Down there the side knobs look like this "\" and have the opposite effect.

You're understanding what Kidwoo is saying, you just need to stick your head under your tire to see how the knobs point.

 

[dfinn]

Doh, I've been struggling with this for like an hour now. At least it kept me occupied while at work.

 

[kidwoo]

I'm confused (don't worry, this happens often), I'm having trouble visualizing what you're saying. Let's say this tire is rolling away from you, which I guess is what they intended. Strictly speaking about the side knobs, it makes sense in my head that they should be facing this way. If you're leaned over, and the side knob is like this "/" then wouldn't it be grabbing dirt and pulling you into the turn, allowing you to lean over harder w/o washing out?

So when you say "then the sidenknobs are now angled left when the tire is pointing right", it seems the opposite to me, what am I missing here?

I'll do some sick ms paint graphics when I get home. Long story short is that with a left turn, that angle / is closed off and then opens up, letting dirt go, but also pushing the tire in the wrong direction. With the classic V shape (that tire rolling towards you) you get side knobs that open up and then hold dirt, with the walls of the sideknobs pushing you in the direction you're trying to turn.

I gotta get some work done.....I'll get back to you

In the meantime just picture that open V shape on the bottom of your tire with the open end facing in the direction you're going on the dirt. Now lean that v over and see the difference with which way dirt wants to push the tire/the tire slides. Also what angle is the best to KEEP the tire from sliding.

 

[bholwell]

I've had good experiences working with Bryan on the tires I've ridden. I think he listens to good (sensible, logical, well-explained) input on the designs. I also think his recent designs are working well (Ardent, Ikon, Aspen).

Thanks. But I didn't design the Ardent. It was designed right before I came on board, and I just had it tested. I did change a few minor things for the 29x2.4 version, though.

 

[toodles]

What about the minion are you thinking that would actually improve?

In the two years I ran the Minion DHF SRYs I noticed they always seemed to work best either completely upright or on an aggressive lean. On what I would call my home trail, there's two off-camber traverse sections where I noticed the Kenda Nevegals felt better and less likely to wander especially when you gapped into the section and landed on the off-camber.

I know its an unpopular opinion but I quite like the Nevegals and have run them for about two years now. When I couldn't get any I ran a Minion DHF but traded back to the Nevegal as soon as stock became available. The irony is, when I was first given a Nevegal it sat in my garage for 12 months before I even tried it because everyone told me they were sh!t.

 

[vikingboy]

Great thread guys. For what it's worth, I liked the nevegal too but the sidewalls kept tearing up on me so i moved to DHF's and now trying specialized clutches.

 

[toodles]

Great thread guys. For what it's worth, I liked the nevegal too but the sidewalls kept tearing up on me so i moved to DHF's and now trying specialized clutches.

Oh yeah I forgot the Specialized tyres. They're looking awesome at the moment. Would love to take a set for a rip sometime soon.

 

[MDJ]

Great thread guys. For what it's worth, I liked the nevegal too but the sidewalls kept tearing up on me so i moved to DHF's and now trying specialized clutches.

Same here - sort of. I ran Nevegals on my AM bike and liked them enough for where I rode that bike. Except for the sidewalls fo course.

I usually run my DH bike in different terrain/dirt and using clutches right now. I want to see how the Clutch performs in that moon dust at Northstar and Mammonth this summer compared to the DHFs.

 

[Sam B]

So you've talked to Lars? If yes, then you know he thinks pretty highly of the new tire. I think this will be a tire you'll enjoy running front and rear- maybe a set for loose and muddy, and a separate set of DHF's for dry??? Anyhow, you shouldn't have to wait too long for them- we've placed a sizable order from the factory.

The wear rate is similar to the original High Roller since the compounds used are the same, and the land-to-sea ratio (that's knob-to-void ratio) is similar. Oh, and today we finalized the whole tire name thing. I can't tell you yet, but the solution should satisfy everyone.

Yah, the pointed braking edge on the High Roller just seemed to get rounded over a lot faster than the braking edges of a Minion. Overall they don't wear out to fast, they just wear differently. Lars seemed to love them and despite seeing them at work every day I (obviously?) never got to try them. Oh, and we throw rocks at each other at work too..

 

[Sam B]

Sam and I talk to one another every once and a while...

Not only are our desks located about 20' from one another, we're neighbors as well... Talk about there goes the neighborhood!

It's been great reading this thread and seeing how much positive armchair feedback the new tire is receiving. In all seriousness though it will be a great addition to the Minion in our Maxxis tire options for varying conditions. I feel this tire will fill the void very well between a Minion, and a cut Wet Scream.

Lars

I am going to throw a big rock over the fence tonight... lookout.

 

[Killingtonvt]

Push for it will ya?

Only after an EXO 2.3 minion dhf for all us downhillers with trail bikes though.

I'm in as well.. this is exactly what is currently missing!!!

 

[Acadian]

Perfect thread pattern for woo

 

[kidwoo]

Those are sweet! Who makes those? That might be my next dirtjump tire.

 

[Pslide]

Those are sweet! Who makes those? That might be my next dirtjump tire.

But all the hearts aren't pointing the right way!

 

[dfinn]

But all the hearts aren't pointing the right way!

They are, you just have to get under your computer and look up at them.

 

[Slater]

After reading this thread I stumbled across this tire last night and thought it would make a great rear, provided that the rubber was good.

Geax DHEA:

 

[slyfink]

After reading this thread I stumbled across this tire last night and thought it would make a great rear, provided that the rubber was good.

Geax DHEA:

aren'T the ramps on the wrong edge though?

 

[Slater]

It doesn't look like the V's in the center knobs would do a ton, but I could be wrong. Mainly I liked the square profile, large channel and huge braking knobs.

 

['size]

Those are sweet! Who makes those? That might be my next dirtjump tire.

http://www.gizmodo.jp/2010/10/post_7749.html?utm_source=atom&utm_medium=rss via http://www.designboom.com/contest/winner.php?contest_pk=33

 

[WParsons]

It doesn't look like the V's in the center knobs would do a ton, but I could be wrong. Mainly I liked the square profile, large channel and huge braking knobs.

Yea but look at the way those angles on the sides of the knobs, and the curve of the backside of the middle 'chevron' type knob. Not good.

Anytime you see a V shape that connects two knobs, that's not a good thing. All that does is promote the tire to sit up on top of the dirt, in this case, rolling.

 

[Slater]

Good to know. Thank you.

Now that I think about it I can see how the side knobs having that "cup" shape or whatever facing the centerline if the tire would be a bad thing. Actually, really bad.

 

[PepperJester]

After reading this thread I stumbled across this tire last night and thought it would make a great rear, provided that the rubber was good.

Geax DHEA:

I ran one of these as a rear tire for a season. it was pretty good. I liked it on dry trails. A softer rubber compound would have helped it in the wet so as is I'd rate it in the 7.5 / 10 range.

For reference I had the 2.3 TNT version running tubeless on a ZTR flow.

 

[MDJ]

Perfect thread pattern for woo

That's nuttin'. My daughter's bike has Barbie heads for knobs. The pony tail is angled in the right direction too.

And no, I didn't buy her the barbie bike. My wife didn't think the black Specialized hot rock or Redline Junior were appropriate for her.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

Perfect thread pattern for woo

I like these:

 

[kidwoo]

There would be nothing better than riding in a new 7 foot dirt lip with hello kitty and hearts drying in after the first session.

 

[Orvan]

Canfield invented Michilen

 

[mtg]

bholwell: I can't find the answer to this on the Maxxis site, so hopefully you can enlighten.

The 2.5 UST High Roller is now offered in two compounds, a "single ST" and a "dual" compound. I'm assuming the single compound is Super Tacky, but what about the other one? Is that the same as what was called the Maxxpro 60a last year? Something new?
I've used and liked the 2.5 UST Maxxpro 60a HR, but I've had a couple of them get holes through the tread from rocks, whereas that has never happened for me on the ST. I'd like the rubber compound of the 60a with the casing durability that I've experienced with the ST, in an ideal world.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

bholwell: I can't find the answer to this on the Maxxis site, so hopefully you can enlighten.

The 2.5 UST High Roller is now offered in two compounds, a "single ST" and a "dual" compound. I'm assuming the single compound is Super Tacky, but what about the other one? Is that the same as what was called the Maxxpro 60a last year? Something new?
I've used and liked the 2.5 UST Maxxpro 60a HR, but I've had a couple of them get holes through the tread from rocks, whereas that has never happened for me on the ST. I'd like the rubber compound of the 60a with the casing durability that I've experienced with the ST, in an ideal world.

I'll just give my 2 cents on this: The website is more international than it leads on. In the states, the only 2.5 UST Highroller has come in Supertacky. If you had a different version, it somehow came from another country or was an OEM tire.

I'd be more inclined to run the 60a since I always seem to tear the bead off the ones I've had. (Running with 823's that is.)

 

[mtg]

Ah yes, I did have to order the 2.5 UST 60a HRs from the UK. But, up until this year, the USA Maxxis site never mentioned that tire. However, now they do mention a dual compound version. So, maybe they are planning on selling it in the USA now?

I'm with you though, I prefer the 60a for most of the riding I do, except for some reason the 60a casing seems weaker for tread punctures, ime.