[Kanye West]

Soooo since the last time I've done a formal race, Norba has since gotten rid of the Semi-pro class and now appears to have Pro, Cat 1, Cat 2, Catnip, Cat****, Catbox blah blah blah.

If one were racing Sport, Expert, Semi-Pro and Pro before, what the hell would they race meow? Pro is fairly obvious, but the rest?

MEOW!

 

[RayB]

Do you like fishsticks?

 

[Kanye West]

Gay fish yo!

 

[Eastern States Cup]

fisherman = novice

 

[John P.]

There was a fairly long thread about this last fall that you could probably find with a little searching, but here's the gist: USAC will automatically assign you to a category based on your last year's license (all former semis and pros will be thrown in the new Pro Class, Cat 1 will cover experts, sports will be thrown in Cat 2, and Cat 3 is for beginners). However, it seemed pretty clear that some of the USAC posters here (Seplavy, Dylan Dean) suggested it should break down like this:

Pro: pros and faster semi-pros
Cat 1: Slower semi-pros and faster experts
Cat 2: Slower experts and faster sports
Cat 3: Slower sports and all beginners

Unfortunately, trying to 'downgrade' to a category that's appropriate to your skill isn't all that easy. For example, I definitely fall into the category of 'slower experts' due to my advancing age, fear of hitting a tree at high speed, and affinity to drink too much beer the night before a race. Without being too self-deprecating, suffice it to say that my results back up this theory. However, when I went to 'downgrade' myself to the appropriate Cat. 2, some dude at USAC denied my request due to the fact that I won a race last year in which there was one single other racer in my class (who obviously had signed up for the wrong class by mistake). Never mind all the other races where I finished in the bottom third of the pack.

So yippee. I get to have my ass handed to me for another year. Should be tons of fun.

--JP

 

[jonKranked]

Do you like fishsticks?

Baby Farts McGeezak? Are you serious?

 

[chriscarleton]

Do they still do age groups or is it just by the Cats now?

 

[RUFUS]

Do they still do age groups or is it just by the Cats now?

All of the age groups are still in all of the categories.

Some local races might not do all of the age groups or they will consolidate them like they normally do.

 

[Total Heckler]

My local series is still using the old categories (beginner, sport, expert, and pro).

I like the CAT-1, 2, 3 way. Bigger more competitive classes.

 

[Dogboy]

So yippee. I get to have my ass handed to me for another year. Should be tons of fun.

--JP

I'm in the same boat John. My only saving grace may be that I bumped up to the 40+ geezers - probably still get smoked anyhow

 

[ska todd]

Unfortunately, trying to 'downgrade' to a category that's appropriate to your skill isn't all that easy. For example, I definitely fall into the category of 'slower experts' due to my advancing age, fear of hitting a tree at high speed, and affinity to drink too much beer the night before a race. Without being too self-deprecating, suffice it to say that my results back up this theory. However, when I went to 'downgrade' myself to the appropriate Cat. 2, some dude at USAC denied my request due to the fact that I won a race last year in which there was one single other racer in my class (who obviously had signed up for the wrong class by mistake). Never mind all the other races where I finished in the bottom third of the pack.

So yippee. I get to have my ass handed to me for another year. Should be tons of fun.

JP,

Please email or PM me the details of your downgrade request and I will discuss it with USAC. I think they're just being a bit cautious to have riders downgrade without first gauging the real competition with the new categories.

-ska todd

 

[Jettj45]

Hasn't NORBA been dead for like 3 years....

 

[djjohnr]

Surprised they don't at least have Cat 4. USA Cycling has an interesting system for road racing, the number of entrants in a race is taken into consideration for points and moving up/down.

http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=580

 

[ryebread]

Most events have separate courses for beginner, sport, expert and above. So how does cat relate to course? If I go to cat 2 (since I'm a back of the pack expert) do I get thrown back onto the sport course?

 

[DHRracer]

Most events have separate courses for beginner, sport, expert and above. So how does cat relate to course? If I go to cat 2 (since I'm a back of the pack expert) do I get thrown back onto the sport course?

Cat 2 is considered the same as sport,so yes you will be on sport courses.

 

[dante]

Pro: pros and faster semi-pros
Cat 1: Slower semi-pros and faster experts
Cat 2: Slower experts and faster sports
Cat 3: Slower sports and all beginners

sounds like it's a Seplavy scheme to ensure that he's fastest of the slow experts...


actually, I have to say that with the minimal turnout at a lot of these races, I'm starting to like the Pro/Am format of the US Open more and more. the huge number of classes and age groups feels like just another way for there to be "more winners". Saying that you got 4th, in your class, in your age group, when there were only 7 people competing is pretty sad, like little league where everyone gets a trophy... "Yay, everyone's a winner!!"

 

[ska todd]

There are certain insurance legalities to doing true "Open" events, along with details as pertain to the UCI/USOC & the "Amateur Sports Act" (formerly known as the "Ted Stevens Act"...yes THAT Ted Stevens).

If you want to see a cluster of too many classes and categories, look at the road side. Five year age groups. Six categories. But, then again they have many, many more competitors at most events.

-ska todd

 

[jonKranked]

The one thing I don't like about Diablo's format is the lack of association with any race governing body. There's no rules stating which class you have to be in - its all on the honor system. This lack of enforcement leads to a LOT of sandbagging.

I stopped racing at Diablo after one season. Every race I did there, the winner of the Amateur category would have placed top 15 (in several cases top 10) in pro class.

 

[Kanye West]

I personally think it needs to be just Mens/Womens, Junior/Senior, Amateur/Elite. Nice and friggin' simple. All they did was make things MORE convoluded by taking away the descriptive names for any new racers, and keeping the same number of classes!

Silly NORBA....

 

[IH8Rice]

The one thing I don't like about Diablo's format is the lack of association with any race governing body. There's no rules stating which class you have to be in - its all on the honor system. This lack of enforcement leads to a LOT of sandbagging.

I stopped racing at Diablo after one season. Every race I did there, the winner of the Amateur category would have placed top 15 (in several cases top 10) in pro class.

uh oh...thats blasphemy in some forums...too bad someone from Diablo wont make a comment on this. it would be funny to hear

Silly NORBA....

Norwhat?

 

[sanjuro]

I personally think it needs to be just Mens/Womens, Junior/Senior, Amateur/Elite. Nice and friggin' simple. All they did was make things MORE convoluded by taking away the descriptive names for any new racers, and keeping the same number of classes!

Silly NORBA....

Hey, the Pro/1/2/3/4 system has been in road forever. I never had a problem figuring it out.

Probably the biggest problem with this system for mountain biking is the idea of progression.

In order to upgrade to the higher category, you need to earn placings before being permitted to upgrade.

I'm not as familiar with the upgrade path for mountain biking, but if you say you are semi-pro, then you allowed to race in that category.

Ultimately, the difference is that road racers can go to 2 races every weekend. Considering for dhers, doing 8 races in a season seems like a lot, the upgrade system doesn't really work.

 

[ryebread]

Great. Cat 1 DFL here I come!

Cat 2 is considered the same as sport,so yes you will be on sport courses.

 

[Prettym1k3]

Cat 2 has a piss-ton of Sandbaggers in it. Some know what they are doing, and some genuinely didn't understand the new system.

Eitherway, my 25th out of 38th place at Sea Otter identifies me as a sure fire Cat 2 racer.

 

[- seb]

What we have in the UK seems to work quite well. Primarily age-groups:

Juvenile (12-14)
Youth (14-16)
Junior (16-18)
Senior (18-30)
Master (30-40)
Veteran (40-50)
Grand Vets (50+)

Then there's two higher-ability categories, which cover everything above Junior:

Expert (18+)
Elite (18+)

So juv/youth/juniors all have fixed categories, but from age 18 onwards you can be in the "entry-level" age cat (senior/master/vet) or, if you get enough ranking points, you can step up to Expert, and then again to Elite.

 

[ryebread]

Are there any rules for moving up? 3 top 5s in a row and you get forced to bump up, or something like that?

 

[- seb]

If you're asking me about the UK, riders only change category each calendar year, never mid-year (unless they request it and the BCF uses their discretion, for instance if new racer is raping the field in Senior he might ask to be moved to Expert based on his results).

Info on how people move between cats here (no point me reiterating it):
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/site/BC/mtb/mtb_categories.asp

 

[CRoss]

Hasn't NORBA been dead for like 3 years....

Norwhat?

What is this NORBA you guys keep talking about??

 

[ianjenn]

Hey, the Pro/1/2/3/4 system has been in road forever. I never had a problem figuring it out.

Probably the biggest problem with this system for mountain biking is the idea of progression.

In order to upgrade to the higher category, you need to earn placings before being permitted to upgrade.

I'm not as familiar with the upgrade path for mountain biking, but if you say you are semi-pro, then you allowed to race in that category.

Ultimately, the difference is that road racers can go to 2 races every weekend. Considering for dhers, doing 8 races in a season seems like a lot, the upgrade system doesn't really work.

Sweet so has Steroids, EPO, and spandex. Doesn't mean I am jumping all over those. The best would have been keep it the same and maybe ditch out on SEMI-PRO cat. MX has 4 classes and is close to DH.

 

[MinorThreat]

. . . All they did was make things MORE convoluted by taking away the descriptive names for any new racers, and keeping the same number of classes!

I'm having a bit of difficulty wrapping my head around all of the confusion. Cats 1,2,3 translate directly to the old Exp, Sport,Beg. The only thing that's really changed is a Semi-Pro has to fish or cut bait and decide whether or not to sandbag back to Expert or go Pro.

As far as newbies and descriptions, we left the old classes in parentheses after the cat numbers on all entry materials for this year to kinda help people out at our race.

What we have in the UK seems to work quite well. Primarily age-groups:

Juvenile (12-14)
Youth (14-16)
Junior (16-18)
Senior (18-30)
Master (30-40)
Veteran (40-50)
Grand Vets (50+)

Then there's two higher-ability categories, which cover everything above Junior:

Expert (18+)
Elite (18+)

So juv/youth/juniors all have fixed categories, but from age 18 onwards you can be in the "entry-level" age cat (senior/master/vet) or, if you get enough ranking points, you can step up to Expert, and then again to Elite.

I just wonder how that would work here. Take 50+ for example - - there is a pretty wide disparity between 50+ Experts and the beginner/sports even in that age bracket.

Maybe what it boils down to is we ought to get rid of most of the age-plus-ability bracketing and set it up like the AMA does Class C (dirt track) racing: 14U/Novice/Junior/Expert in amateur ranks and maybe Junior/Expert in the Pros, regardless of age. No sense we all can't race together as long as we're at similar speed/ability levels.

 

[elRey]

Sweet so has Steroids, EPO, and spandex. Doesn't mean I am jumping all over those. The best would have been keep it the same and maybe ditch out on SEMI-PRO cat. MX has 4 classes and is close to DH.

That is exactly what they did.

 

[ianjenn]

That is exactly what they did.

Yeah sure and gave them road names for race classes to boot! Beg/Sport/Exp/Pro

Done!

 

[gr1]

Most events have separate courses for beginner, sport, expert and above. So how does cat relate to course? If I go to cat 2 (since I'm a back of the pack expert) do I get thrown back onto the sport course?

why have different tracks? in the uk we all ride the same course.

 

[Jim Mac]

Venues vary in the US - Plattekill in NY for example runs separate courses for Pro/Cat 1 and Cat 2&3. Mount Snow for their local series runs the same course, but will divide it out for (what was once known as) the Nationals.

 

[- seb]

why have different tracks? in the uk we all ride the same course.

I'm all for different tracks if it means we can ride some harder stuff without ruining racing for the beginners.

 

[Old_Sckool]

why have different tracks? in the uk we all ride the same course.

We mostly use the same courses in the U.S. But some of the tougher stuff is ribboned off for the beginner/sport class. Some courses also have alternate routes for part of the course (Snowmass, CO). But in general, most tougher lines just have optional "go arounds".

But you really wouldn't want your average beginner/sport rider wandering on to stuff like this. This jump is 1 of 4 on the "Cougar" trail at Sol Vista, CO. It's not even the biggest.

 

[IH8Rice]

killer jump...how long do you think it is?

 

[ska todd]

Food for thought; do separate courses actually promote people racing in categories over their heads? People wanting to ride on the burlier course but shouldn't be racing on it. Conversely, does separate courses promote "sandbagging"? Do racers race the "easier" course b/c they know they will do well or maybe b/c they are afraid of getting broken and not being able to work on Monday?

-ska todd

 

[SuspectDevice]

Food for thought; do separate courses actually promote people racing in categories over their heads? People wanting to ride on the burlier course but shouldn't be racing on it. Conversely, does separate courses promote "sandbagging"? Do racers race the "easier" course b/c they know they will do well or maybe b/c they are afraid of getting broken and not being able to work on Monday?

-ska todd

I don't understand the logic behind having DH racing for beginner-intermediate level riders, quite frankly.

Downhill as a recreational activity now exists outside of the purview of race courses. This isn't the 90's any more. There is no need to cater to recreational riders or less skilled or less fit riders at race events. If a rider can not perform at a level where they can ride an elite track, they should go train, not go race at a lower level. It's a better use of the riders resources, and better use of Promoters and Governing Body resources IMO.

If it were logistically feasible I'd be all for canning cat 2-4 DH racing entirely. The fundamental technical skills in DH racing are fairly easy to learn from riding hard and often. The fitness requirements are quite do-able when the sport is approached as a lifestyle that requires commitment.

Getting rid of the racers that show up to show off their plumage, their strap-on manhood and their misogyny in beginner races would do a lot to improve the image of DH among the cycling public, and the general public at large.

-m

 

[Transcend]

I don't understand the logic behind having DH racing for beginner-intermediate level riders, quite frankly.

Downhill as a recreational activity now exists outside of the purview of race courses. This isn't the 90's any more. There is no need to cater to recreational riders or less skilled or less fit riders at race events. If a rider can not perform at a level where they can ride an elite track, they should go train, not go race at a lower level. It's a better use of the riders resources, and better use of Promoters and Governing Body resources IMO.

If it were logistically feasible I'd be all for canning cat 2-4 DH racing entirely. The fundamental technical skills in DH racing are fairly easy to learn from riding hard and often. The fitness requirements are quite do-able when the sport is approached as a lifestyle that requires commitment.

Getting rid of the racers that show up to show off their plumage, their strap-on manhood and their misogyny in beginner races would do a lot to improve the image of DH among the cycling public, and the general public at large.

-m

Wow. You really are an elitist douche all of a sudden, aren't you?

 

[SuspectDevice]

Wow. You really are an elitist douche all of a sudden, aren't you?

I've always been an elitist douche, I try to make that clear.

All the brohams want DH to be Supercross right?


When was the last time you saw an amateur Supercross race?