I love my world cup..but I want the new one when it comes out!
New Rock Shox Site w/ 2005 Products!
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Useless? I'll remember that the next time anyone else posts any kind of satire, as I was. I found the logic that "I have a boxxer, it's given me a tons of problems, I want to buy another one" pretty funny, so I was addressing that line of thinking.CBJ said:
I'll try to make posts in every topic I run accross where someone uses some satire like that so we can put a stop to it, so you'll hopefully be seeing more of my posts from here on out.
I am very sorry for not recognizing you satire.
aw, c'mon, guys, leave JM_ alone, will ya? his only enjoyment comes from sitting in front of his computer with his internet scanner continuously searching for any and all uses of the word "boxxer" without the word "porche" right in front of it. then, when someone from the far-reaches of the internet posts something vaguely related to downhill forks in general, JM_ heroically jumps to his feet, runs to his computer and posts inane and sardonic comments, doing his part to remind EVERYONE that he had a 2003 boxxer race that he upgraded the compression valving and he STILL WAS NOT HAPPY WITH IT. Just imagine the down-trodden faces of children all over the world, the howls of anguish and despair, if JM_ were not around to warn people that his modified basement-level boxxer "still sucked". PLEASE!! Think of the children...
mines a 04' and sick !!! nener-nener!!oly said:Almost the exact same thing i would say......
hahahadante said:
...a kitten dies every time someone buys a Boxxer...dante said:
Please. Think of the kittens.binary visions said:...a kitten dies every time someone buys a Boxxer...
LOL at BV and Dante....dante said:
You jsut gave Jm_ more ammo.
RhinofromWA said:LOL at BV and Dante....
You jsut gave Jm_ more ammo.
plus I hate cats!
I really love my Rs Psylo sl tullio 02, its superbe for me , But i need some new bushings. :angry: It's normal wear i geuss, ecause of all the dj'ing urban .freeriding 4x /ds.
Does anybody how expensive those things are.
(and thanx for this link).
Does anybody how expensive those things are.
(and thanx for this link).
I'll save you time looking for bushings and simply spam this thread with an exact replica of your old fork.Lefty said:I really love my Rs Psylo sl tullio 02, its superbe for me , But i need some new bushings. :angry: It's normal wear i geuss, ecause of all the dj'ing urban .freeriding 4x /ds.
Does anybody how expensive those things are.
(and thanx for this link).
NEW '02 Psylo SL Tullio
azonicbruce said:I'll save you time looking for bushings and simply spam this thread with an exact replica of your old fork.
NEW '02 Psylo SL Tullio
Ok thanx i really apreciate that. And it's really not expensive to. But does he also come in white..
, i have a white one. Well i must see what my lbs has tp say about it. Your's ebay auction is ending really quick. 6 hours 26 mins.
If you want it white simply leave it under a really big tree with lots of birds and after a day or two you'll have a nice white (and brown and green and black and purple) forkLefty said:Ok thanx i really apreciate that. And it's really not expensive to. But does he also come in white..
Then people would think it was a camo Sherman, we can't have that now can we?azonicbruce said:If you want it white simply leave it under a really big tree with lots of birds and after a day or two you'll have a nice white (and brown and green and black and purple) fork
OMG LOL.. i am cracking up.. :love:azonicbruce said:If you want it white simply leave it under a really big tree with lots of birds and after a day or two you'll have a nice white (and brown and green and black and purple) fork
Exactly... but i do like to see one in camo ...
it would be awsome cool..
Yeah, I'm highly confused. Probably because my hands keep being shaken off the bars by my incredibly inferior Boxxers...Jm_ said:
can we start bashing Hayes now?....
I really don't know how you could have had such bad experiences. As far as I can see, there's 3 likely explanations:Jm_ said:
1. You ride so fast, over such rough stuff, that you *NEED* moto-quality forks/dampers. This is unlikely since you haven't mentioned anything about the last time you won a world cup.
2. You have NFI how to set your fork up. Given that you clearly know everything, this could never be the case.
3. You simply don't like RS and would like to blow everything out of all proportion for the sake of your dislike of them. I can't think of any reason why this wouldn't be the case, it fits like a glove...
yeah, i guess i could survive on a JrT since i dont really *NEED* a Shiver....thaflyinfatman said:
thaflyinfatman said:
Yeah, you'd think that boxxers and boxxer-uses would be able to stand on their own minus one comment directed at someone's logic of bad-expiriences with a product. With the little snippets and allusions to "Jm" in the preceeding pages before my one comment, it's really amazing how sensative and defensive you guys are.....of course, with little snippets about "Jm" in the preceeding pages, it shouldn't come as a huge suprise to find a post from me after that, still, it amazes me how you can't let go and let your "boxxer" stand on it's (leaky) own....
Since you are on the attack, aren't you the same guy that doesn't understand how rearward axle path helps with square-edge hits, how chain-tension makes a high pivot bike have feedback and be in-active in rock-gardens, and aren't you the same guy that has no clue about DH seatpost/saddle height in yet another thread?
Couldn't help the leaky part, the devil made me do it. :evil:
Yeah, we're all hypersensitive and defensive. Whereas you are rediculously exaggerated and offensive. But since that's ok by you...Jm_ said:
Oh guess what: my properly-tuned Boxxer is at least as good a fork as my Shiver was, and it has the advantage of considerably less brake dive. My 8-month-old, not-serviced-at-all seals are also fine. My bike just seems to defy physics! Or maybe I actually ride it instead of bitching about it...
Oh and yep, I'm the same guy who said just this:
Which was pointing out the apparent contradiction in you saying it absorbs hits better, but is less active (unless you have a completely different definition of "active" to myself and everyone else I've talked to, which you may well do). So -1 to you for English comprehension. I never mentioned anything about chain extension in that thread, and FYI I am quite aware of how it works and how it affects pedaling. So that's another -1 to you for English comprehension, and debatably another -1 for making an unbased assumption. Let's now proceed to unbacked slander (which is fair enough, since I started it): I have "no clue about DH seatpost/saddle height". No, actually I've made it quite clear in a number of posts, that the minimum saddle height is what concerns me in terms of standover, since I don't tend to knock/bump/get caught on/etc the top tube; rather it's the position of the saddle that is the issue. But you just don't seem to actually read what I say, which is fair enough because you're always right, and anyone who thinks differently to you is wrong. Another -1 for English comprehension. But you're right, I'm the guy who doesn't understand anything...thaflyinfatman said:
Wow, I can't believe I ruined your weekend with one comment. I hope you recover.
There is no contradiction, you apparently still do not understand. The foes is more active than a high-pivot single-pivot bike. A "certain type" of impact is handled better by a single pivot, not "all impacts". I've owned multiple high and low single pivot bikes now, and I can definitely say my foes is much more active than the high pivots I've had, this is due to where the pivot is in relation to the bottom bracket.
The BB7 is a poor example because with the chain-roller, because you can argue that it is not really a high pivot, the chainline is close to the center of rotation, meaning there is very limited chain growth, which means it doesn't share the same traits as a high-pivot bike where the pivot is well above the BB/chainline. As far as activeness, the foes and BB7 should be very similer, the BB7 might absorb those square-edged hits (that utilize the rearward suspension path) better, but as zedro mentioned, there are several wildcard factors that it is nearly impossible to add any value to out of the blue.
I am not suspension expert or engineer, but these are pretty simple concepts. Your knowledge about these subjects is what makes me wonder about your perception of the boxxer.
There is no contradiction, you apparently still do not understand. The foes is more active than a high-pivot single-pivot bike. A "certain type" of impact is handled better by a single pivot, not "all impacts". I've owned multiple high and low single pivot bikes now, and I can definitely say my foes is much more active than the high pivots I've had, this is due to where the pivot is in relation to the bottom bracket.
The BB7 is a poor example because with the chain-roller, because you can argue that it is not really a high pivot, the chainline is close to the center of rotation, meaning there is very limited chain growth, which means it doesn't share the same traits as a high-pivot bike where the pivot is well above the BB/chainline. As far as activeness, the foes and BB7 should be very similer, the BB7 might absorb those square-edged hits (that utilize the rearward suspension path) better, but as zedro mentioned, there are several wildcard factors that it is nearly impossible to add any value to out of the blue.
I am not suspension expert or engineer, but these are pretty simple concepts. Your knowledge about these subjects is what makes me wonder about your perception of the boxxer.
Yeah my weekend sucked, thanks to you. Mainly because I didn't get to ride awesome trails all day today. [/sarcasm]Jm_ said:
Tell me exactly what you mean by "active", because I don't think we have the same idea of the word's definition. To me it means the extent to which it responds to relatively small inputs, which are normally caused by small rocks, corrugations, braking ruts etc. I have found BB7s to be surprisingly active over this kind of input, moreso than any other non-linkage singlepivot I've ridden (including a Foes Mono, which had a Curnutt mounted as opposed to the 5th Element on the BB7). This doesn't relate to the BB7's chain roller or other bikes' lack thereof when you're not pedaling (because once you're moving fast, the slack caused in the chain by the bike being shaken fairly violently, as well as the cassette being able to rotate forwards as long as it's not rotating faster than the wheel means that coasting pedal kickback [ie kickback when you're not cranking] is reduced a fair bit, normally to the point where it's not very noticeable, if at all).
So, despite this AND the fact that Foes' (at least the DHS, can't speak for their other offerings as I'm not sure where the pivot is) have more chain extension than BB7s (implicitly validating my above comments, that when you're not pedalling it doesn't matter much), a high pivot is less active than a low pivot, yet a BB7 and a Foes will be "very similar"? A BB7 is pretty much the most extreme version of a "high pivot" bike in production (PDCs are similar, and Zedro's bike isn't in production
), so ignoring pedaling (you haven't mentioned it in relation to activity) it should be considerably less active than a Foes. So in conclusion, yes there is a contradiction in what you're saying. No doubt you will reply to this to disagree however, because you're not the type of person to let ANYTHING go.Now let's move on to relevance (which you poorly tried to relate to my knowledge of rear suspension activity). I'm not a rocket scientist, nor a suspension engineer. None of my mates are either. But plenty of us manage to ride Boxxers without our hands being "shaken off the bars" or having oil squirt in our eyes out of spite. It doesn't take any kind of expert, nor ANY kind of such unrelated knowledge, to be able to say "yeah this fork feels good". There is no placebo here - I got my bike (complete, with Boxxer) intending to ride it till I had the money to trade the Boxxer in for whatever else.... but then I discovered that Boxxers are surprisingly underrated. All the horror stories I've heard haven't proven to be true in my case, or the cases of the 4 Boxxer owners I regularly ride with. In fact I haven't talked (face to face) with any Boxxer-owner/rider who has had the same kind of x-tremely bad x-periences you've had with them, or in fact had much bad to say at all. Statistically speaking (in my experience) you're the anomaly. A lot of people (by which I mean possibly just me) would say that the problem therefore lies at your end. That's a pretty retarded thing for me to say, taking into account that personal preferences vary hugely. However I'd like you to see (I'm trying to be reasonable here, and probably failing) that the same should apply from your POV - you dislike a fork (hate it even, want to burn it possibly), great. Say so then move on, nobody's forcing you to buy/ride them. If you go into massive tirades about how bad they are (repeatedly and frequently), then people DO get sick of hearing the same old crap (and IMO you blow it way out of proportion too) and eventually stop taking your opinion/input seriously (in general too). I won't deny that you're a smart guy, but if you want people to really put worth in your opinion, IMO it'd be worth just letting it die, and moving on. The reason people regularly mention your hatred for Boxxers in any Boxxer-related thread is because they've heard it that much, and IMO it's a sign that they're just not taking you seriously any more. If that's fine by you, fantastic, if you like (as I do) people putting worth in your opinion/recommendations, then just let it go and stop trying to cram it down our throats.
In fact, I don't even really care if you take my advice. All I ask is that you read my post and consider what I've said. That ok by you?
Sigh...yeah, it's like arguing with a hand tied behind your back...
The foes mono has a much different pivot than my FXR (which I'm about to ride in flagstaff in a few minutes), the location of the pivot does affect things like pedaing and activeness, you don't have to be pedaling to feel the effects of chain extension, just the fact that your feet are STATIONARY will create some effects, if you could backpedal on every impact at the right ratio, then you'd get 100% "activeness" out of a high-single pivot design, but since that is impossible, it doesn't happen. The "activeness" is directly related to the chain extention, but it's usually talked about a little differently because it seems to affect the entire range of the suspension, from low to high speed. Having a single pivot with a non progressive shock (so a much higher initial spring rate) magnifies this effect.
I'm glad you like the BB7, but it seems that you didn't really understand why it worked so well in terms of activeness, and that is because the pivot is essentially concentric with the bottom bracket. This is the purpose that the roller serves, and to put it in simpler words, the roller "changes the entire ballgame". Go ride some other concentric bikes, like the Cove G-spot. It's super-active, it also bobs like a mofo, but it is very active.
The whole point though is, when trying to argue the merits and disadvantages of single pivots, the BB7 is the exception to the rule due to the roller. It's going to behave much differently than a 223, or trek desiel freeride (the one without the roller). Even if it had the same exact pivot point, it will be much more active due to the roller which keeps chain-extention from influencing the suspension.
Again, the BB7 is not really a high pivot, since the criteria that is usually used to describe a high pivot is the fact that the pivot is at or above the chainline.
Conversely, the foes Mono is about a "mid" pivot, the pivot is around the chainline, but since it only has one front gear this may be a lot more optimal than a lower pivot (XC bikes have to have a trade off and they are usually optimized for the middle ring, which means the pivot will be lower, as with my foes FXR). My FXR on the other hand is a very low-pivot. Active, but the disadvantage of lower pivots is they start to bob like crazy, so the curnutt comes into the equation..
The foes mono has a much different pivot than my FXR (which I'm about to ride in flagstaff in a few minutes), the location of the pivot does affect things like pedaing and activeness, you don't have to be pedaling to feel the effects of chain extension, just the fact that your feet are STATIONARY will create some effects, if you could backpedal on every impact at the right ratio, then you'd get 100% "activeness" out of a high-single pivot design, but since that is impossible, it doesn't happen. The "activeness" is directly related to the chain extention, but it's usually talked about a little differently because it seems to affect the entire range of the suspension, from low to high speed. Having a single pivot with a non progressive shock (so a much higher initial spring rate) magnifies this effect.
I'm glad you like the BB7, but it seems that you didn't really understand why it worked so well in terms of activeness, and that is because the pivot is essentially concentric with the bottom bracket. This is the purpose that the roller serves, and to put it in simpler words, the roller "changes the entire ballgame". Go ride some other concentric bikes, like the Cove G-spot. It's super-active, it also bobs like a mofo, but it is very active.
The whole point though is, when trying to argue the merits and disadvantages of single pivots, the BB7 is the exception to the rule due to the roller. It's going to behave much differently than a 223, or trek desiel freeride (the one without the roller). Even if it had the same exact pivot point, it will be much more active due to the roller which keeps chain-extention from influencing the suspension.
Again, the BB7 is not really a high pivot, since the criteria that is usually used to describe a high pivot is the fact that the pivot is at or above the chainline.
Conversely, the foes Mono is about a "mid" pivot, the pivot is around the chainline, but since it only has one front gear this may be a lot more optimal than a lower pivot (XC bikes have to have a trade off and they are usually optimized for the middle ring, which means the pivot will be lower, as with my foes FXR). My FXR on the other hand is a very low-pivot. Active, but the disadvantage of lower pivots is they start to bob like crazy, so the curnutt comes into the equation..