[rocketmatt17]

So I am feeling like I made a huge mistake. I bought a set of the 2010 saints and I was really expecting big things. I have had them about 4 months and I cant seem to keep the air out of the system. They came pre-bled. I did trim the line length for the rear so I thought that I didnt get all the air bled out. I have tried everything I know as a motorcycle mechanic to get them bled properly. I always have to pump them up to get them to work and sometimes I have to pump them as I am riding if I expect to have any brakes. I have tried both ways of bleeding that shimano recommends and I have tried a few tricks from my mechanic days. A vibratory sander works quite well for removing any trapped air bubbles. Every time a ride they get worse and I keep bleeding air bubbles from the front and the back. I keep seeing mineral oil on the master cylinder like the rubber gasket is leaking. Any ideas before they go up on the auction block.

 

[rigidhack]

You have clearly got a leak somewhere. Don't know if it is warrantee issue or just a bunch of crap on the piston seals causing problems. Disassemble, clean, try again.

 

[HAB]

Where on the MC? Around the cover for the reservoir? Even if that's leaking, it shouldn't really get air in the line, though I would get that dealt with. I forget if Shimano sells that gasket or not. Have your LBS call them and check. My first guess is that you didn't get one of the olives seated right when you cut the hoses. Any sign of leaking around the hose fittings?

 

[rocketmatt17]

Where on the MC? Around the cover for the reservoir? Even if that's leaking, it shouldn't really get air in the line, though I would get that dealt with. I forget if Shimano sells that gasket or not. Have your LBS call them and check. My first guess is that you didn't get one of the olives seated right when you cut the hoses. Any sign of leaking around the hose fittings?

They leak right around the cover but there in there is always plenty of fluid in the reservoir. There no sign of leaking around the olives and I thought that to but both front and rear do the same thing and I only cut the rear tubing. They have done this from day one but I will check the piston seals. Has anyone else had any problems

 

[daisycutter]

I have had no trouble with my brakes and I haver not herd of any issues. I would take it to your lbs to check out .

 

[Sandwich]

I haven't had any problems...sounds like a warranty issue...take em to an LBS or talk to shimano. Closest thing I've seen is random fade, but they still work fine a year after buying them

 

[stiksandstones]

like others said, a very very random fade might happen, but the whole constant leaking around the cylinder is not correct, just get a new gasket.

Whatever you do, don't sell them without warning to someone if you do not resolve it, nothing worse than someone not disclosing a lemon they are selling..

 

[Udi]

Never seen or heard any such issues with them before. I'd suspect user error (or less likely, a warranty issue but I'm doubting it)... either way, take them to a good shop and see what they say.

 

[TheInedibleHulk]

Actually, we've seen this a lot with those brakes. First step, new reservoir cover and seal, which costs 12 dollars or something. If the lever is still leaking, then call shimano warranty and they will probably send a whole new lever.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

Have you LBS call Shimano, or you call them. My buddy didn't like the notchy feel of his XT servo wave levers, so they sent a new pair of brakes FOC. (I'm talkin front and rear pre-bled...)

 

[rocketmatt17]

Actually, we've seen this a lot with those brakes. First step, new reservoir cover and seal, which costs 12 dollars or something. If the lever is still leaking, then call shimano warranty and they will probably send a whole new lever.

Thanks I knew someone had to have seen this. Did you have problems with air getting into the system with the leaky covers. Seems like it would be hard for air to get in.

 

[SirChomps-a-Lot]

I've seen this with hopes... if you overtightened the reservoir cap, it would crush the seal and leak. If you're a moto mechanic, it seems likely you could have applied moto torque to a bicycle part?

 

[DirtyMike]

Thanks I knew someone had to have seen this. Did you have problems with air getting into the system with the leaky covers. Seems like it would be hard for air to get in.

Most Mtn bike brake systems are setup so the rubber gasket makes the seal, and keeps any and all air out of your fluid. Teh gaskets should also have<I dont know if I am saying this right> a ballast effect as well, as your brakes wear, more fluid goes from the lever to the caliper ETc Etc..... But the gasket should be able to flex as it does this, like a diaphram effect. if you have any leaks at all in the resi gasket, your going to get air in teh brakes almost every ride. Itll get into the wrong side of the gasket, combining the small amount of fluid mtn bike uses with how muc vibrations there will be... itll aireate into the fluid, then migrate into the system.

Sounds like a couple new gaskets, a good bleed, and making sure not to over tighten and all will be well.

 

[rocketmatt17]

I've seen this with hopes... if you overtightened the reservoir cap, it would crush the seal and leak. If you're a moto mechanic, it seems likely you could have applied moto torque to a bicycle part?

I cant imagine I did over tighten it, the seals look good but will be replaced just to be sure. I am superstrong though. I can get a little bit of air to come out of the MC but every time there are huge air bubbles at the caliper bleed. I hope new seals will fix it. I will post the results. Thanks

 

[timo12]

I cant imagine I did over tighten it, the seals look good but will be replaced just to be sure. I am superstrong though. I can get a little bit of air to come out of the MC but every time there are huge air bubbles at the caliper bleed. I hope new seals will fix it. I will post the results. Thanks

do you still have these problems or did the new seal fix it? I have 2 sets of saint, where I don't get the air out of the systems and many of my riding buddys have the same problems. it seems, that there are many brakes out there with that problem. you must be a lucky man to get ones that work!

Regards

 

[Dogboy]

I've seen this with hopes... if you overtightened the reservoir cap, it would crush the seal and leak.

You can't really do this on Shimano brakes. The casting on the lever is raised where the cover bolts on and the gasket drops down around that raised portion. You are tightening the cover down against that rather than squishing the gasket.

 

[kazlx]

Why would you sell them? You are going to just end up taking it in the shorts. They are awesome brakes...like stated above, there is either a leak somewhere or some sort of defect. I'm sure if you go through the place you bought them or contact Shimano directly, they will take care of you. Maybe let a good lbs have a crack at it and see if they can fix them.

 

[LOOnatic]

I'm sure if you go through the place you bought them or contact Shimano directly, they will take care of you. Maybe let a good lbs have a crack at it and see if they can fix them.

I had a problem with an older saint caliper and they went above and beyond to resolve my issue quickly and get me back 2 riding so just have your shop call Shimano already....

 

[rocketmatt17]

I had a problem with an older saint caliper and they went above and beyond to resolve my issue quickly and get me back 2 riding so just have your shop call Shimano already....

I have taken the bike to my local shop and it has taken all this time (3 weeks) just to get shimano to return their calls. I finally have new seals on the way. I even went so far as to buy a set myself since the lbs could not get shimano to call them back. They have not arrived yet either. I hope this works but I have my doubts because I have had problems since day one which have gotten steadily worse. I have bleed massive amounts of air out of the calipers and small amounts out of the mc. Then they felt great, I let them set overnight and came out the next day and the caliper is full of air again. I did not move the bike at all so there is no way that air got in there from riding and crashing. I even used a vibratory sander to get every last air bubble out of the caliper and mc but the problem is still there. I hope to get them fixed or replaced pronto but shimano's customer service has been crap so far

 

[DirtyMike]

I thnk your LBS is full of ****

NEVER and I mean never has it taken anywere that long when dealing with shimano, longest it has ever taken me to get warranty items from shimano is three days and they are in my hand...... I dont get a call back, I tell them what we see, they get an address and send parts.......Probably one of the best CS companies I have dealt with

 

[Chaingangster]

I thnk your LBS is full of ****

I'll second that. Three weeks?? No excuses.

Well, maybe a partial excuse if you never support them, mailorder all your stuff and only go in the shop when you want something purchased elsewhere warrantied.

If thats not the case then they suck. It takes about 5 mins to get a Shimano tech on the phone and get your questions solved.

Give your business to a shop that deserves it.

 

[Huck Banzai]

You have a bit of bad luck, and are being 'bamboozled'.

Things go wrong, but Shimano is super solid CS and Saints have no known issues that Im aware of.

I hope you work it out, but you need to realize that you're dealing with a fluke and a possibly incompetent LBS.

 

[Huck Banzai]

Dubba-post - plz delete

 

[DirtyMike]

Called shimano at 445 today...... Leaky xt lever...... took five minutes to have CS to decide to send us a new one. Actually, they asked if we had one in stock to use and they would replace it for us... we do, and they are..... should have it tuesday or weds.....

They are swapping out the whole brake set......

 

[rocketmatt17]

I have been dealing with this shop for a long time and they are top notch. The shimano rep first said the seals were on backorder and then he called back and said he found a set in his desk..... ya right. I think it may more of a case of a rep who is not on top of his job. The shop is also waiting on a set set of buckles for some of their shoes which have been on order for a year. I hope shimano gets this sorted out and I wont care as long as they are working properly. I only paid 365 for the complete set of both brakes but that is still alot of $ to lose

 

[DirtyMike]

All I know is that there has been plenty of times that when we cannot find one small part from shimano, or its backordered...... Shimano just replaces the entire unit.

If they are talking to their rep on this, they are talking to the wrong person, should be calling warranty, not their rep.... Rep should be telling them that.

 

[SuPaFlY]

Have you tried a pressure test? As air is gettig in, under pressure, there sould be oil coming out somewhere. Zip tie your lever to the bar, nice and tight, then look for leaks. Always worth a try. also, you can try leveling out your levers, doing that to both brakes and leaving it overnight. it will release any air bubbles trapped in the master cylinder. Stupid question as well, you dont hang your bike or store it upsideown do you?

 

[rocketmatt17]

Have you tried a pressure test? As air is gettig in, under pressure, there sould be oil coming out somewhere. Zip tie your lever to the bar, nice and tight, then look for leaks. Always worth a try. also, you can try leveling out your levers, doing that to both brakes and leaving it overnight. it will release any air bubbles trapped in the master cylinder. Stupid question as well, you dont hang your bike or store it upsideown do you?

I will try the pressure test. Thats the kinda advice I was looking for, not the you dont know what your doing and your bike shop sucks kinda crap advice ive been getting. I dont hang it upside down. I will rebleed everything once the new seals are in and try the pressure test. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Chaingangster]

Thats the kinda advice I was looking for, not the you dont know what your doing and your bike shop sucks kinda crap advice ive been getting.

I don't think anyone was trying to be a d*ck or insult you. Those responses have only come about because you insinuated that your shop and/or Shimano weren't taking care of business. Whether you meant it or not, thats the way it came across. Many of us have dealt with Shimano CS directly and were simply assuring you that it is top notch, and that your situation is unusual. Shimano will come through for you if there really is a problem with your brakes.

 

[rocketmatt17]

I don't think anyone was trying to be a d*ck or insult you. Those responses have only come about because you insinuated that your shop and/or Shimano weren't taking care of business. Whether you meant it or not, thats the way it came across. Many of us have dealt with Shimano CS directly and were simply assuring you that it is top notch, and that your situation is unusual. Shimano will come through for you if there really is a problem with your brakes.

I hope someone gets it taken care of. The new seals I ordered from the internet came in today and I am in the process of doing the pressure test. I dont care how they get fixed as long as they do. Once the seals come in from shimano I will keep them as an extra set. I got a brand new jedi thats been laying around for 2 weeks and I cant wait any longer

 

[rocketmatt17]

Well it seems the seals fixed the problem. I have done a couple of pressure tests and cant find any leaks. The lever feel is so much better. I checked with the LBS today and he said he was talking to a warranty tech. He also said that you will get better customer service from them if the customer calls directly. He said that they do not get good service when they deal directly with them. The warranty seals have not arrived but Im so excited at the thought of having working brakes I don't care. I hope they are as good as everyone says. Time to put the jedi together!

 

[DirtyMike]

Well it seems the seals fixed the problem. I have done a couple of pressure tests and cant find any leaks. The lever feel is so much better. I checked with the LBS today and he said he was talking to a warranty tech. He also said that you will get better customer service from them if the customer calls directly. He said that they do not get good service when they deal directly with them. The warranty seals have not arrived but Im so excited at the thought of having working brakes I don't care. I hope they are as good as everyone says. Time to put the jedi together!

I guess the real question there would be.... What did the LBS do to piss off shimano then?

Im not trying to be a dick, or a snob or anything like that..... Just I have dealt with shimano warranty more than a few times... as a shop employee not as a customer direct. I mean I litterally has a Saint Mech with a cracked cage, instead of making my customer and myself wait for a new cage, they sent out an entirely new mech so I could have it ready oin a couple days vs a couple weeks......

 

[rocketmatt17]

I guess the real question there would be.... What did the LBS do to piss off shimano then?

who knows, maybe someone was having a bad day

Hi,
I have similar problems with my rear brake. Can you please tell me which seals you had to change to fix the problems?

The master cylinder seal and cap. I bled a lot of air out of the caliper and I mean alot

 

[rocketmatt17]

Just to let everyone know. The brakes are having the same problem again. The weird thing they were working pretty well and then on a long downhill run they went from working to no brakes. This was on both the front and the rear. There was a little brake left on the front but none on the rear. This was also 8 min into a 12min run. We stopped for a break and once we got back going again no brakes. I did not crash before the problem occured.

I called shimano directly and told them of the problem and they have agreed to send me a new front and rear set. I will post these up for sale once I have them. There service this time has been great but I just dont have any confidence in the brakes anymore. I have just installed a set of the Hope Moto V2's and so far so good. They are not quite seated in yet. Man the fit and finish are phenomenal.

 

[ldw222]

Just to let everyone know. The brakes are having the same problem again. The weird thing they were working pretty well and then on a long downhill run they went from working to no brakes. This was on both the front and the rear. There was a little brake left on the front but none on the rear. This was also 8 min into a 12min run. We stopped for a break and once we got back going again no brakes. I did not crash before the problem occured.

I called shimano directly and told them of the problem and they have agreed to send me a new front and rear set. I will post these up for sale once I have them. There service this time has been great but I just dont have any confidence in the brakes anymore. I have just installed a set of the Hope Moto V2's and so far so good. They are not quite seated in yet. Man the fit and finish are phenomenal.

I've been having similar issues with Shimano brakes for years (most recently on Saints)...the lever will just go to the grip. I think it has to do with air getting past the seals on the pistons. It happened to me again this weekend at Mt Snow on a set of Saints that I've only used for three weekends so far. This is driving me crazy though...I'm going to try cleaning the seals as it was a muddy weekend on some pretty sandy soil so maybe some got in there. If it keeps happening though I'm going to do the same as you though and try something else...

 

[bizutch]

Just to let everyone know. The brakes are having the same problem again. The weird thing they were working pretty well and then on a long downhill run they went from working to no brakes. This was on both the front and the rear. There was a little brake left on the front but none on the rear. This was also 8 min into a 12min run. We stopped for a break and once we got back going again no brakes. I did not crash before the problem occured.

I called shimano directly and told them of the problem and they have agreed to send me a new front and rear set. I will post these up for sale once I have them. There service this time has been great but I just dont have any confidence in the brakes anymore. I have just installed a set of the Hope Moto V2's and so far so good. They are not quite seated in yet. Man the fit and finish are phenomenal.

PM me with a price. One mans trash is another mans treasure.

 

[demo 9]

Dibs if bizutch bitches out