[Gary]

You'd rather just pick one arbitrary BCD and fuck everything else. LOL. ok.

Well. Yeah... But I do actually have reason to... and it isn't arbitrary
Firstly. The reason I'd rather stick with a spider and chainring bolts as it's a far easier attachment system to deal with in almost every concievable way.
Secondly. Ask yourself who carries a direct mount lockring tool on rides with them incase say. I dunno, a chain jams or your chainring comes loose? and then ask yourself who doesn't carry a 4/5mm allen key when they ride?
Fact is. most folk won't even have the correct lockring tool back in their car/van. and plenty folk don't even actually own the correct too at all for the stupid direct mount lockring that came on their bikes pretty shitty non shimano OEM cranks.
The reason I'd choose to stick with 104bcd is because it's well proven and has now become a very long established standard (20+ years) and because of this offers by far the greatest choice for spare/replacement mtb chainrings and at far better pricing than any DM offerings.

26" wheels were pretty fucking great too

 

[slimshady]

Well. Yeah... But I do actually have reason to... and it isn't arbitrary
Firstly. The reason I'd rather stick with a spider and chainring bolts as it's a far easier attachment system to deal with in almost every concievable way.
Secondly. Ask yourself who carries a direct mount lockring tool on rides with them incase say. I dunno, a chain jams or your chainring comes loose? and then ask yourself who doesn't carry a 4/5mm allen key when they ride?
Fact is. most folk won't even have the correct lockring tool back in their car/van. and plenty folk don't even actually own the correct too at all for the stupid direct mount lockring that came on their bikes pretty shitty non shimano OEM cranks.
The reason I'd choose to stick with 104bcd is because it's well proven and has now become a very long established standard (20+ years) and because of this offers by far the greatest choice for spare/replacement mtb chainrings and at far better pricing than any DM offerings.

26" wheels were pretty fucking great too

SRAM chainrings are held in place with three Torx screws. Way easier to change or adjust than anything else out there. Even while in a ride.

 

[Gary]

I'll give you a race to completely remove that SRAM chainring from the bike trailside with your torx key while I remove a 4 bolt ring.

I'll even let you have a headstart of our time zone difference

 

[slimshady]

I'll give you a race to completely remove that SRAM chainring from the bike trailside with your torx key while I remove a 4 bolt ring.

I'll even let you have a headstart of our time zone difference

I was comparing it to other direct mount systems, Mr. Smartykilts... All you need to carry with you are a M12 Allen and a Torx T25 keys to get the chainring off. Compare it against the proprietary tool+huge spanner or tool+socket wrench+cheater bar and you'll find enlightenment the obvious way.

 

[StiHacka]

I have done many trailside hacks but chainring removal was not one of them.

 

[Gary]

Noob

 

[slimshady]

Oh please, enlighten us with your anecdotes about trailside cotter pin removals and loose bearing BB play adjustments...

 

[jonKranked]

Well. Yeah... But I do actually have reason to... and it isn't arbitrary
Firstly. The reason I'd rather stick with a spider and chainring bolts as it's a far easier attachment system to deal with in almost every concievable way.
Secondly. Ask yourself who carries a direct mount lockring tool on rides with them incase say. I dunno, a chain jams or your chainring comes loose? and then ask yourself who doesn't carry a 4/5mm allen key when they ride?
Fact is. most folk won't even have the correct lockring tool back in their car/van. and plenty folk don't even actually own the correct too at all for the stupid direct mount lockring that came on their bikes pretty shitty non shimano OEM cranks.
The reason I'd choose to stick with 104bcd is because it's well proven and has now become a very long established standard (20+ years) and because of this offers by far the greatest choice for spare/replacement mtb chainrings and at far better pricing than any DM offerings.

26" wheels were pretty fucking great too

Oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg

 

[jonKranked]

I'll give you a race to completely remove that SRAM chainring from the bike trailside with your torx key while I remove a 4 bolt ring.

I'll even let you have a headstart of our time zone difference

If you've fucked up so badly you have to fix those things trailside you shouldn't be allowed to work on bikes again, ever.

 

[Gary]

If you've fucked up so badly you have to fix those things trailside you shouldn't be allowed to work on bikes again, ever.

If you haven't ever seen a chainring damaged up or a chain jam between a chainring and frame you should send your bikes to me. Not to be worked on. So they actually get ridden

 

[jonKranked]

If you haven't ever seen a chainring damaged up or a chain jam between a chainring and frame you should send your bikes to me. Not to be worked on. So they actually get ridden

Only chainring I ever broke was a 22t on my trials bike. I switched to steel chainrings for it and it never happened again. The one real chain guide jam I ever had was a gamut because I didn't realize that I needed a bash plate with a little extra offset for the thicker chainring tabs on saint cranks. Couple instances of chainsuck back in the 90s when I had my first bike with a triple chainring.

 

[Gary]

ah'm only fuckin wid cha

shit is pretty reliable these days.

still hate DM tho

 

[jonKranked]

ah'm only fuckin wid cha

shit is pretty reliable these days.

still hate DM tho

I know.

Serious question: what companies are actually currently manufacturing mtb cranks with a 104bcd? I honestly can't think of any offhand.

 

[jonKranked]

Also, have you ever used a spline drive sprocket on a bmx bike? I fucking love those

 

[slimshady]

I know.

Serious question: what companies are actually currently manufacturing mtb cranks with a 104bcd? I honestly can't think of any offhand.

I was thinking of Wolf Tooth, but they have their own system, not a pure 104bcd one:

CAMO Aluminum Round Chainring

The CAMO chainring system was created by the Wolf Tooth engineers for Chainline And Material Optimization on direct mount style Chainrings. They key advantages include perfect chainline, price, easy swapping and more. This chainring requires the purchase of a spider.

www.wolftoothcomponents.com

 

[Gary]

Serious question: what companies are actually currently manufacturing mtb cranks with a 104bcd? I honestly can't think of any offhand.

now Shimano have their daft offset 4 bolt and the new 8 bolt shit it's pretty much relegated to shimano square taper, the likes of lower level SRAM/suntour etc. chainsets.

Also, have you ever used a spline drive sprocket on a bmx bike? I fucking love those

Yeah. But that is a massive improvement from the old chainring sat on the axle with spacers and the arm holding the ring on and one bolt holding it in place system.

 

[jonKranked]

I was thinking of Wolf Tooth, but they have their own system, not a pure 104bcd one:

CAMO Aluminum Round Chainring

The CAMO chainring system was created by the Wolf Tooth engineers for Chainline And Material Optimization on direct mount style Chainrings. They key advantages include perfect chainline, price, easy swapping and more. This chainring requires the purchase of a spider.

www.wolftoothcomponents.com

I said cranks, not chainrings. As far as I'm aware everyone has moved to direct mount.

 

[jstuhlman]

shimano xt is still 4 bolt, although not the same pattern as older xt.

 

[marshalolson]

It’s way cheaper to forge arms only and not have to deal with the spider (or hand lay carbonz spiders). And they can charge the same price!

File me in the weird camp of preferring normal chainrings too. 104 on all three of my bikes. Mainly because I have broken 3 DM rings and never had an issue with normal 4 bolt chainrings

 

[Jm_]

Well. Yeah... But I do actually have reason to... and it isn't arbitrary
Firstly. The reason I'd rather stick with a spider and chainring bolts as it's a far easier attachment system to deal with in almost every concievable way.
Secondly. Ask yourself who carries a direct mount lockring tool on rides with them incase say. I dunno, a chain jams or your chainring comes loose? and then ask yourself who doesn't carry a 4/5mm allen key when they ride?
Fact is. most folk won't even have the correct lockring tool back in their car/van. and plenty folk don't even actually own the correct too at all for the stupid direct mount lockring that came on their bikes pretty shitty non shimano OEM cranks.
The reason I'd choose to stick with 104bcd is because it's well proven and has now become a very long established standard (20+ years) and because of this offers by far the greatest choice for spare/replacement mtb chainrings and at far better pricing than any DM offerings.

26" wheels were pretty fucking great too

There are things that are so rare that I don't carry the tools for them, hedging against the extremely improbable. To that extent, I tend to not carry a BB tool, cassette lockring tool, punches and drifts, torx drivers (other than T25), bleed kits, air compressors, cable cutters, etc.

I can't say anything like that has ever happened on any bike I owned. Hell, the stupid chainring bolts were more of a point of failure IME, they sometimes loosened up, and of course, you need ANOTHER FREAKING TOOL to tighten them, to get the pressure so they tighten.

The RF direct mount especially take a lot of torque to set, but I've never heard of one working loose that was set anywhere near the required ft/lb.

Between the two "standards", one uses 3 little allen bolts easily removed and the other uses an old stanard BB tool that most of us that have been riding for more than 2 years already have. This is not the standard I have problems with. The interface leaves something to be desired, Shimano's, when using a metal preload cap, is hands down better, but they've been the slowest to react to other changes, probably because their setup is the most "inflexible" to changes, vs. wolftooth or 1up just CNCing some aluminum for the newest standard.

 

[Jm_]

shimano xt is still 4 bolt, although not the same pattern as older xt.

 

[toodles]

Didn't shimano 4 bolt cranks come with some ridiculous thing like a T-30 Torx anyway? So unless you swapped them out in the shop you were fucked if you needed to loosen\tighten one trailside unless you had an pre-1953 Eastern Lithuanian Standard toolkit that included the stupid torx size.

 

[hitar_potar]

A rear mech and an unmarked crankset are on the photos. Anyone seen new brakes or a shifter?
What could they do with the brakes, how can they make them stronger? By enlargening the calipers?

 

[Gary]

RF direct mount especially take a lot of torque to set, but I've never heard of one working loose that was set anywhere near the required ft/lb.

They came loose and creaked like hell on plenty bikes. In fact absolutely tons of YTs did exactly that.

Didn't shimano 4 bolt cranks come with some ridiculous thing like a T-30 Torx anyway?

No. Mainly just 4 or 5mm Allen

 

[sethimus]

If you haven't ever seen a chainring damaged up or a chain jam between a chainring and frame you should send your bikes to me. Not to be worked on. So they actually get ridden

isn‘t that what chain guides are for?

 

[jonKranked]

shimano xt is still 4 bolt, although not the same pattern as older xt.

XT moved to direct mount with m8100 (12 speed). even the 2x cranks are direct mount, with the small gear bolting to the larger direct mount ring.

 

[jonKranked]

Didn't shimano 4 bolt cranks come with some ridiculous thing like a T-30 Torx anyway? So unless you swapped them out in the shop you were fucked if you needed to loosen\tighten one trailside unless you had an pre-1953 Eastern Lithuanian Standard toolkit that included the stupid torx size.

torx is great. i have everything from t10 to t50.

 

[jonKranked]

Didn't shimano 4 bolt cranks come with some ridiculous thing like a T-30 Torx anyway? So unless you swapped them out in the shop you were fucked if you needed to loosen\tighten one trailside unless you had an pre-1953 Eastern Lithuanian Standard toolkit that included the stupid torx size.

are you talking the chainring bolts, or the crank spindle bolt? because the crank spindle bolt isn't torx; torx is 6 spline interface, shimano's crank spindle bolt is an 8 spline

 

[Sandwich]

torx for the sake of torx. nothing like completing your set of tools, only to need a new set of tools because MTB industry. "it's technically better!"

I have shimano weird 4 bolt and easton cinch. I had raceface cinch before that. I can say definitively that cinch SUCKS- the lockring will come loose and you need an 8 and 2.5mm wrench to loosen, then a square taper BB tool to tighten. Nothing like starting a 30m ride only to have your chainring start creaking at mile 3.

Shimano weird 4 bolt is easily better, but still frustrating with torx. Since all of my gear is based around allens, I regularly tighten those bolts with a 4mm allen in place of the proper torx head, because fuck you MTB industry.

Retardless, I much prefer a bolt system to direct mount. Stronger lever arms and you don't need to disassemble your BB to tighten a ring. Those cranks look like XT or spray painted XTR to me.

 

[jonKranked]

torx for the sake of torx. nothing like completing your set of tools, only to need a new set of tools because MTB industry. "it's technically better!"

I have shimano weird 4 bolt and easton cinch. I had raceface cinch before that. I can say definitively that cinch SUCKS- the lockring will come loose and you need an 8 and 2.5mm wrench to loosen, then a square taper BB tool to tighten. Nothing like starting a 30m ride only to have your chainring start creaking at mile 3.

Shimano weird 4 bolt is easily better, but still frustrating with torx. Since all of my gear is based around allens, I regularly tighten those bolts with a 4mm allen in place of the proper torx head, because fuck you MTB industry.

Retardless, I much prefer a bolt system to direct mount. Stronger lever arms and you don't need to disassemble your BB to tighten a ring. Those cranks look like XT or spray painted XTR to me.

if i ever sell you a bike i'm going to replace every single bolt with torx.

 

[Gary]

isn‘t that what chain guides are for?

You'd think so, eh?

 

[Gary]

if i ever sell you a bike i'm going to replace every single bolt with torx.

Every second bolt with a
Torx and make sure your bike has a few 1.5 and 1.25mm Allen heads in there for good measure.
SRAM already have this covered

 

[jonKranked]

Every second bolt with a
Torx and make sure your bike has a few 1.5 and 1.25mm Allen heads in there for good measure.
SRAM already have this covered

i'll make sure i toss in a few security torx for good measure. and maybe some of those fucking triangle bolts.

 

[canadmos]

i'll make sure i toss in a few security torx for good measure. and maybe some of those fucking triangle bolts.

Just use philips, that way even if he has the right bit, it'll probably round out or the bit will popout of the head and scratch whatever is behind it.

 

[jonKranked]

Just use philips, that way even if he has the right bit, it'll probably round out or the bit will popout of the head and scratch whatever is behind it.

no, i'd much rather make him go on a goose hunt for random tool bits. then when he gives up and uses the wrong one the head will round out anyways

 

[jstuhlman]

use ALL teh security screwsssss! you know, for extra securities!

 

[sethimus]

Pentalob or die

 

[6thElement]

Some of those square hole ones required too.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Some of those square hole ones required too.

Robertson

 

[mykel]

Robertson

Pretty much the standard in Canada.
Phillips are for bitches.