[James | Go-Ride]

So somehow Kris managed to acquire some of the new 2005 Manitou Flick forks. The one in the picture below is a 6" fork with a standard 1 1/8" steerer tube (which is made of steel) and the 20mm HexLock axle. The axle pinch bolts have 4mm heads this year instead of 3mm, so that should cut down on stripped-out heads. The fork is 5.7 pounds out of the box with the axle and steerer tube uncut.

Just thought some of you would like to see a big picture of the '05 stuff

 

[Jm_]

So much for the 1.5 standard.

The new firefly is also a 6" single crown with a 1.125 steerer....

 

[S.G.D]

So much for the 1.5 standard.

The new firefly is also a 6" single crown with a 1.125 steerer....

if it aint broke, dont fix it.....y'all.



~SGD

 

[syadasti]

Its more like don't miss out on the existing market...

1.5 frames are a good idea, regardless of the steerer size...

 

[James | Go-Ride]

Without sparking this never-ending philosophical argument once again, I'm just going to address JM's comment. I know you were just joking around, but for those who are wondering why the inventors of 1.5 are now making a standard steerer, 6" fork, the answer is pretty simple. ONEpointFIVE makes sense for a variety of different reasons. It offers more weld area at the headtube for certain frame designs (Evil Imperial, Yeti ASX, older Turner DHRs, etc), a stronger headtube that is more resistant to ovalization without excessive weight, the ability to run a larger bearing assembly with either size steerer in a 1.5 head tube, and some other things I can't remember. Does it need to exist? Probably not, but Shimano didn't NEED to go to 9 speed and Hope didn't NEED to create a 6 piston brake with titanium nitride coated pistons (luckily, Hope did create this machined beauty, and that's kind of the point). The benefits of the design are enough to justify that 1.5 exists, IMO.

Anyway, the Flick and Firefly are available in 6" this year because there are sooooo many riders that don't want to buy a new frame to accomodate their fork. I am included in this group of riders. Marzocchi totally had the handle on riders who wanted a big travel, single crown fork for their 1.125" headtube frame with the Z150, and Manitou most likely saw the chance to break into that (however limited) market. I've got a Z150 on my Saber. I like my frame and didn't want to sell it just to get a new trail bike with a 6" single-crown fork. So, short answer to "so much for the standard" is that there's never going to be a standard, just different nitches. I know some guys don't like moto references, but if anybody has ever gone to buy a new clutch cable for a motorcycle (moto, enduro, sport, touring, whatever) you know there are about 200 different clutch cable assemblies to fit different bikes. Probably more than that.

Personally I'm excited to see Manitou offering a new option for riders like myself. They offer the Flick, which is TPC Plus for those of us who like buttery suspension, and the Firefly for those who prefer platform valving. Anyway, this response probably wasn't necessary but it's my two cents.

The Trogdor comes in the night.

 

[Tarpon]

Meh, I'm stick with my Breakout.

I can see them wanting to compete with the Marzocchi (and soon Fox) 6" SC forks but I think the 1.5's will always be better (strength and stiffness). Does anyone know why Fox and Marzocchi are so reluctant to use 1.5? Is it just ego?

I've owned both '02 and '03 Z1's and my Breakout puts them to shame.

 

[greenreese]

So somehow Kris managed to acquire some of the new 2005 Manitou Flick forks. The one in the picture below is a 6" fork with a standard 1 1/8" steerer tube (which is made of steel) and the 20mm HexLock axle. The axle pinch bolts have 4mm heads this year instead of 3mm, so that should cut down on stripped-out heads. The fork is 5.7 pounds out of the box with the axle and steerer tube uncut.

Just thought some of you would like to see a big picture of the '05 stuff

My Jumper has 4mm bolts. Did some of the forks come with three and some with four, or did they switch half way through the year?

-dAn

 

[Slugman]

So somehow Kris managed to acquire some of the new 2005 Manitou Flick forks. The one in the picture below is a 6" fork with a standard 1 1/8" steerer tube (which is made of steel) and the 20mm HexLock axle. The axle pinch bolts have 4mm heads this year instead of 3mm, so that should cut down on stripped-out heads. The fork is 5.7 pounds out of the box with the axle and steerer tube uncut.

Just thought some of you would like to see a big picture of the '05 stuff

1.5 vs. 1.125 - who gives a F'... when are they going to start trying to have better prices thatn the other guy!

 

[Jm_]

Just to clarify, my comments were directed at manitous use of the 1.5, rather than 1.5 headtubed bikes. I've maintained from the beginning that they were seperate issues (ovalization vs running some 7" single crown).....

What is funny is that manitou was so adamant about needing 1.5" for their 6" breakoutl....

 

[frorider]

Meh, I'm stick with my Breakout.

I can see them wanting to compete with the Marzocchi (and soon Fox) 6" SC forks but I think the 1.5's will always be better (strength and stiffness). Does anyone know why Fox and Marzocchi are so reluctant to use 1.5? Is it just ego?

I've owned both '02 and '03 Z1's and my Breakout puts them to shame.

i agree, i've owned many SC marzocchis & was a die-hard fan but my breakout owns them totally. even my friends that like their Z150 complain about the flex in hi speed rocks / washboard. :eviltongu ...while i just blast thru the same section. it's almost like having a DC fork. almost.

not many N americans have noticed the freeride Magura, looks way beefy and uses 1.5 inch steerer. finally some competition to manitou.

in the case of Fox, i don't see much stubborness, just the fact that they're slowly expanding from an XC emphasis (the new DH fork will start changing that). fox of course has always recognized the advantages of large diameter tubes in their XC forks and now in their new DH fork. it's pretty simple...physics 101...and applies to the steerer/crown interface too of course.

marzocchi unfortunately uses that guy, bryson martin (sp.?), to represent them on this topic and he pretty much makes an ass of himself. i remember reading that letter to MBA he wrote. pretty much a textbook example of how NOT to handle a competitive issue like this. i should know; i'm a technology spokesperson for a $ 50 billion+ global technology company. Bryson is so bush league on this PR issue, it's laughable (and tragic). Bryson's approach has basically been to whine that it requires new tooling (yawn) and inconvenience and 'trust us, Marzocchi knows freeride better than anyone'. i.e. rather than fight on legitimate engineering grounds (which they can't, because they'd be contradicting physics 101), they whine instead. I've had several conversations w/ Marzocchi tech support guys and sadly it is a case of denial and wounded pride. Magura of course doesn't have those pride issues--they're new to this fork market--so they didn't hesitate introducing a 1.5 inch SC fork.

 

[radbradus]

manitou chose the 1.5 so they can run an alum steerer - so light , my breakout plus w/ 170mm /7 in. travel weighs 5.4 lbs. marzocchi z 150 is like 6.6 lbs. or somethin. not to mention the 31.8mm stem/ bar i can feel the difference , almost like when we switched to 20mm hubs ... remember that? o.k. now i'm bracing for my critics, come on

 

[Jm_]

manitou chose the 1.5 so they can run an alum steerer - so light , my breakout plus w/ 170mm /7 in. travel weighs 5.4 lbs. marzocchi z 150 is like 6.6 lbs. or somethin. not to mention the 31.8mm stem/ bar i can feel the difference , almost like when we switched to 20mm hubs ... remember that? o.k. now i'm bracing for my critics, come on

I doubt it, a 1.5 firefly 20mm is 5.4lbs...a Z150 SL is 5.2

There's no way in hell that your breakout+ weighs 5.4lbs.



verafiable by more than one person on mtbr that has weighed their fireflys/z150sls...

 

[frorider]

a long time ago i weighed my 6 inch breakout and a z150 on a scale at the bike shop. i think both had a cut steerer tube. anyway, i remember that the z150 was over a pound heavier. 1.3 lbs heavier?? can't remember the exact number.

i have no doubt that the z150 is plenty strong enough, but it does flex more--and it's significantly heavier. no suprise there. the air version z150 SL is a little lighter than the spring breakout--but it's an air fork.

the new Nixon fork has 145 mm travel and a 1.125 steerer, but it's for trail bikes not FR. if everyone had 1.5 frames , i doubt manitou would make a steel steerer 1.125 Firefly w/ long travel, but there are so many 1.125 frame owners looking for a fork like this, manitou had to offer it.

maybe the new 66 fork rides better than the z150. i'm trying to stay openminded about marzocchi but it's hard considering the lame-ass statements they've been making.

 

[Tarpon]

In my opinion, Marzocchi is now a reactive company rather than a proactive company. I really like my Shiver (DC), in my opinion it is their best product. It is in the 4th year with the only mods being new stickers (I know, the first year did not have stanchion guards). Lately, they have been waiting to see if Manitou's new porducts are successful and then they bring out a competing product a year later.

Right now, I think they put more emphasis on form than function (the M-arch and crown stuff). With Fox getting into the DC and FR market I think Marzocchi is in for a world of hurt.

 

[Jm_]

In my opinion, Marzocchi is now a reactive company rather than a proactive company. I really like my Shiver (DC), in my opinion it is their best product. It is in the 4th year with the only mods being new stickers (I know, the first year did not have stanchion guards). Lately, they have been waiting to see if Manitou's new porducts are successful and then they bring out a competing product a year later.

Right now, I think they put more emphasis on form than function (the M-arch and crown stuff). With Fox getting into the DC and FR market I think Marzocchi is in for a world of hurt.

interestingly I was thinking the same thing about manitou, since they've moved to steel steerers on many forks, they've lost a big edge and now many of the forks will be significantly heavier, meaning that marzocchis Z150 is suddenly "not that heavy" and the 66 might be lighter than most manitous. Manitou can't get their X-works working right, and they've only upgraded to 32mm stanchions as of now (while the shiver has always had 35mm ones). The 888 is lighter than the X-works MRD, and about exactly the same as the regular dorado.

That said, I'm putting the Fox 36 on my wishlist...

 

[frorider]

interesting comment tarpon. i was thinking along similar lines. marzocchi hasn't appeared to be innovating in the overall fork market. travel adjust--they came late to that game. my marathon fork on my XC bike has that ECC travel adjust, which even when working 'perfectly' still creeps back to original position on long hills. stable platform valve--it was just a matter of time before this appeared on forks, and although i think it has some improving to do, it should enable an adjustable resistance to brake induced diving. and improve sprinting on a 5 or 6 inch trail bike. marzocchi is way behind on SPV. And rear shocks--why do they continue to not have a decent contender? i know they're working on one now, but these days there are so many new, established shocks. the reason this is important is that many mid price built bikes go for the package deal (and cost saving)--fox front and rear, manitou front and rear...and marzocchi can't play that.

hell even something as basic as a 20 mm dropout design--manitou did the hex thing (one of those design improvements that seems super obvious in retrospect); i think fox DH is doing a knurled interface to reduce twisting under load; meanwhile marzocchi hasn't done a thing.

that whole 'm arch' thing always bugged me. it looks like a cosmetic thing. i look at other brands, and the arch has a bigger cross section which translates into increased stiffness (all else being equal, which it usually isn't).

still though i've had such good memories w/ zokes over the years, i'm hoping they start competing better in the future.

 

[Tully]

1.5 vs. 1.125 - who gives a F'... when are they going to start trying to have better prices thatn the other guy!

I'll drink to that.

 

[Tully]

I'll drink to that.

I know that's lame, I just wanted to use that smilie. Anyway, I think we aren't too far from the point at which companies must compete over price, because within a year, every major company will have a 6" single crown, which, IMO, will make things pretty even.

 

[J5ive]

are manitou saying its ok to mod our 03 and 04 forks to 6 inch? Its easily done with a breakout rod and spring. It doesnt look like the've beefed anything up.

 

[daevh]

Marzocchi concentrate on producing forks which work very well and that last a lot longer than the competition. that's their selling point, not stupid gimicks like the TALAS, SPV (leave that to sort out suspension linkages) and 1.5" steerers.
from an engineering point of view, the 1.5" steerer on the forks (not talking about frames here) isn't nessesary at all, all it allows is the use of a thinner walled alu steerer instead of steel ones and allows a smaller/lighter steerer-crown interface. BUT good engineering can make a 1.125" steerer-crown interface just as strong and light! take the Marzocchi 66 for example, the reason why they're so god damn long is because the crown is very big so that there is enough strength and stiffness. the target weight for the 66 is 6.06lbs for the RC and 5.94lbs for the VF (basic model), the target weight for the Breakout Plus is 5.8lbs (all that information is from '05 specs)! OK, so the Breakout+ is a touch lighter BUT Manitou claim their fork to be a freeride fork and Marzocchi claim the 66 to be a DH fork/Extreme freeride - one step beyond the Z150 say. the 66 also uses twin coils, twin MX-style HSCV cartridges and larger stanchions = more DH/FR friendly. it's sounding like a great fork, i can't wait to get my hands on a pair!

1.5" headtubes are a great idea and should be used more, even if its only with 1.125" steerers because you could put some helluva big bearings in there and increase the headset life strength of the frame around the headtube.

Marzocchi products just work, thats what i love about them and makes me choose ONLY them to produce the forks that end up on the front of my bike...

 

[Tarpon]

are manitou saying its ok to mod our 03 and 04 forks to 6 inch? Its easily done with a breakout rod and spring. It doesnt look like the've beefed anything up.

I think you missed the part about the new forks having a steel steer tube. So no, you would not be able to convert the older model (at least not cheaply).

 

[Tully]

I think you missed the part about the new forks having a steel steer tube. So no, you would not be able to convert the older model (at least not cheaply).

I might be wrong, but I thought the Flick does have a steel steerer.

 

[Tully]

I might be wrong, but I thought the Flick does have a steel steerer.

As does the firefly, according to go-ride.com.

 

[Tarpon]

My mistake, the Flick does have a steel steerer. Did it have one last year also?

I guess you would have to ask Manitou if you can convert it.

 

[endtroducing]

Marzocchi concentrate on producing forks which work very well and that last a lot longer than the competition. that's their selling point, not stupid gimicks like the TALAS, SPV (leave that to sort out suspension linkages) and 1.5" steerers.
from an engineering point of view, the 1.5" steerer on the forks (not talking about frames here) isn't nessesary at all, all it allows is the use of a thinner walled alu steerer instead of steel ones and allows a smaller/lighter steerer-crown interface. BUT good engineering can make a 1.125" steerer-crown interface just as strong and light! take the Marzocchi 66 for example, the reason why they're so god damn long is because the crown is very big so that there is enough strength and stiffness. the target weight for the 66 is 6.06lbs for the RC and 5.94lbs for the VF (basic model), the target weight for the Breakout Plus is 5.8lbs (all that information is from '05 specs)! OK, so the Breakout+ is a touch lighter BUT Manitou claim their fork to be a freeride fork and Marzocchi claim the 66 to be a DH fork/Extreme freeride - one step beyond the Z150 say. the 66 also uses twin coils, twin MX-style HSCV cartridges and larger stanchions = more DH/FR friendly. it's sounding like a great fork, i can't wait to get my hands on a pair!

1.5" headtubes are a great idea and should be used more, even if its only with 1.125" steerers because you could put some helluva big bearings in there and increase the headset life strength of the frame around the headtube.

Marzocchi products just work, thats what i love about them and makes me choose ONLY them to produce the forks that end up on the front of my bike...

I hate to enter brand-loyalty frays, but without a doubt, this is one of the silliest posts I have ever read.

First off, TALAS and SPV aren't "gimmicks", they are features. While you personally may feel them extraneous, many people don't. In fact, Marzocchi must find some merit in them, as they have similiar features on their forks, in the form of External Air Preload (for stiffening the fork like SPV) and ECC (for adjusting travel on the fly, like Talas.)

Secondly, there are no free lunches when it comes to physics and engineering a product. Keith Bontrager said it best: Light, strong, cheap. Pick two. Can a 1.125 steerer/crown be as strong as a 1.5 setup? Sure. But it's probably going to be heavier. Can Marz make a 1.125 setup nearly as light and strong as a 1.5 by using an elongated and overbuilt crown? Possibly. But consider this: While people complain that 1.5 forks are silly because they require retooling and obsolesce current frames, what about 1.125 forks that require aftermarket modification simply to allow near normal geometry due to their ballooned axle-crown length? Is requiring frames to be redesigned a degree steeper to compensate for john holmesian marz forks any less inconvenient?

Thirdly, sorry. You're right. Marzocchi used the word EXTREME to describe an intended use, and thus their fork is magically more gnar-inclined.

Lastly, I'm glad your Marzocchi forks have treated you well. My '97 Z2 gave me many many years of riding enjoyment. That doesn't preclude me from giving other companies and products their fair shake though.

 

[McGRP01]

I hate to enter brand-loyalty frays, but without a doubt, this is one of the silliest posts I have ever read.

First off, TALAS and SPV aren't "gimmicks", they are features. While you personally may feel them extraneous, many people don't. In fact, Marzocchi must find some merit in them, as they have similiar features on their forks, in the form of External Air Preload (for stiffening the fork like SPV) and ECC (for adjusting travel on the fly, like Talas.)

Secondly, there are no free lunches when it comes to physics and engineering a product. Keith Bontrager said it best: Light, strong, cheap. Pick two. Can a 1.125 steerer/crown be as strong as a 1.5 setup? Sure. But it's probably going to be heavier. Can Marz make a 1.125 setup nearly as light and strong as a 1.5 by using an elongated and overbuilt crown? Possibly. But consider this: While people complain that 1.5 forks are silly because they require retooling and obsolesce current frames, what about 1.125 forks that require aftermarket modification simply to allow near normal geometry due to their ballooned axle-crown length? Is requiring frames to be redesigned a degree steeper to compensate for john holmesian marz forks any less inconvenient?

Thirdly, sorry. You're right. Marzocchi used the word EXTREME to describe an intended use, and thus their fork is magically more gnar-inclined.

Lastly, I'm glad your Marzocchi forks have treated you well. My '97 Z2 gave me many many years of riding enjoyment. That doesn't preclude me from giving other companies and products their fair shake though.

OWNED!

 

[Tully]

 

[Incubus]

...not many N americans have noticed the freeride Magura, looks way beefy and uses 1.5 inch steerer. finally some competition to manitou.
...

I don't know that there is a retailer in the states that has one. Not to mention the 4 figure retail price.

 

[Kornphlake]

nobody was owned, one brand loyalist was crucified for his poorly choosen wording.

personally I'll stick to my old proven technology in my current fork. I know it fits my bike well and it does everything I need it to. I've just not seen anything that is a ground breaking innovation in terms of fork technology. Sure features have been added but at what price. I didn't ask for more travel, I didn't ask for added weight, reduced durability, marginal damping characteristics or increased cost. What I'd really like is a stiff double crown fork with 7" travel, cartridge damping, effective seals, smooth bushings and a rebound lockout or a travel adjust of some type that would lower the front for climbing. Notice I don't really want a SC fork, I don't care about stantion size, axle type, steeer tube material, gold annodized part count. Just make something work without compromising the strong points of the current product. For example if Marzocchi were to take the Super T platform add one piece lowers and increase the stantion diameter to give better stiffness without downgrading the internals, having arches that are prone to cracking and cyrofitting the stantions... It's like companies take the features that customers love most and eliminate them in the name of innovation and improvement. They tout that one product will be better than its predecessor when in reality they're just changing one set of problems for another. Look at the Boxxer, it's been given relatively few changes over the last several years, yet year after year it continues to sell... It fills a niche market and apparently RS is content to only fill that niche market with only refinements to the product that customers demand like improved damping. I've yet to hear that one year's boxxer was inferior to a previous year, unlike most other companies. That's the kind of improvement I'd like to see, not just adding bells and whistles for the sake of doing so.

 

[Jm_]

For example if Marzocchi were to take the Super T platform add one piece lowers and increase the stantion diameter to give better stiffness without downgrading the internals, having arches that are prone to cracking and cyrofitting the stantions... .

Welcome to 2003.

 

[daevh]

what about 1.125 forks that require aftermarket modification simply to allow near normal geometry due to their ballooned axle-crown length?

Firstly, the 66 is designed as a DH and 'Extreme' (you obviously don't like that word) FR fork with means it is intended to compete with twin crown forks of the DH/FR type, which generally all happen to be as long as the 66 is so no modifications need to be made there...

First off, TALAS and SPV aren't "gimmicks", they are features. While you personally may feel them extraneous, many people don't. In fact, Marzocchi must find some merit in them, as they have similiar features on their forks, in the form of External Air Preload (for stiffening the fork like SPV) and ECC (for adjusting travel on the fly, like Talas.)

in my opinion (i'm entitled to one yeh?) the TALAS, 1.5" and SPV are a bit pointless for forks. People i know who have on the fly travel adjust just don't ever use it, SPV in forks is just going to kill more small bump performance and 1.5", while a great idea in theory just isn't going to take off. don't get me wrong, i'd like it too but it just won't. i know a pretty big (ish) bike manufacturer giving up on the 1.5" because it just isn't working out.

External Air Preload is just that, not a basic SPV. SPV is damping based not the actual spring - big difference. ETA isn't exactctly travel adjust either. its a damping based system which effectively stops the forks from rebounding so they pack down, it doesn't adjust travel.

Can a 1.125 steerer/crown be as strong as a 1.5 setup? Sure. But it's probably going to be heavier. Can Marz make a 1.125 setup nearly as light and strong as a 1.5 by using an elongated and overbuilt crown? Possibly.

maybe it's a bit heavier but maybe it's also a bit stronger... the Breakout+ and 66 are very different forks, yes, they may both be singlecrown 170mm travel forks but thats about it. they seem to be built for very different purposes. Marzocchi very obviously feel confident with the strength of their product because of them marketing at DH/Extreme (sorry to use that word again) FR and they're going to warranty the product for that use. Marzocchi over the last year or so have been making it very clear what the intended use for their forks are and if you 'abuse' them by doing something they said you shouldn't then its your fault. giving the 66 a purpose of being a very heavy duty fork is pretty much saying 'do what you like with it' and they'll warranty it.

That doesn't preclude me from giving other companies and products their fair shake though.

fair play to you but i've gone through most of the fork manufacturers and always land up being with Marzocchi because they do what they should do, if i little to basically and heavily for some people. like i said, they just work...

 

[The Kadvang]

JM, hahah. I was reading that post, and I was thinking, wait, don't we have this now? Still, I agree. I just want a fork that rides well. I don't care about looks, gimmicks, or what have you. If it works well, I will ride it.

 

[dw]

What is funny is that manitou was so adamant about needing 1.5" for their 6" breakoutl....

Seeing as this is intended as a long travel enduro bike fork, the 1.125 steerer makes sense. It is intended more for 26-28 lb 6 inch travel XC/ trail bikes. It is not a hucker fork.

The bottom line is that this fork was not intended to, and will most likely not take the same abuse as the 1.5 version, and furthermore, if they wanted to build a 1.125 version that did take the same abuse as the 1.5 fork, it would end up being much heavier.

But im sure you knew that already and were just trying to start sh!t.

dw

 

[endtroducing]

Firstly, the 66 is designed as a DH and 'Extreme' (you obviously don't like that word) FR fork with means it is intended to compete with twin crown forks of the DH/FR type, which generally all happen to be as long as the 66 is so no modifications need to be made there...

Not sure of your point. Do you mean to imply that Manitou's long travel singlecrown offerings are NOT meant to compete with dual crown forks? Whether by Manitou's intention or not, Breakouts are being succesfully raced and ridden in applications that in the past would have been the exclusive territory of dual crowns.

in my opinion (i'm entitled to one yeh?) the TALAS, 1.5" and SPV are a bit pointless for forks. People i know who have on the fly travel adjust just don't ever use it, SPV in forks is just going to kill more small bump performance and 1.5", while a great idea in theory just isn't going to take off. don't get me wrong, i'd like it too but it just won't. i know a pretty big (ish) bike manufacturer giving up on the 1.5" because it just isn't working out.

Of course you're entitled. These are vague statements that I don't know how to address. I can't comment on the efficacy of SPV, as I've never ridden any such equipped fork, let alone all of them.

External Air Preload is just that, not a basic SPV. SPV is damping based not the actual spring - big difference. ETA isn't exactctly travel adjust either. its a damping based system which effectively stops the forks from rebounding so they pack down, it doesn't adjust travel.

I'm not really concerned with specifics or the execution of the functions, and whether they be concerned with the spring element or the damping. Rather, my point is that they are similar means to a similar end.
SPV and EAP: you put in air. fork is less likely to bob.
TALAS and ECC: (i never mentioned ETA) You twist nob. Fork alters travel on the fly.

maybe it's a bit heavier but maybe it's also a bit stronger... the Breakout+ and 66 are very different forks, yes, they may both be singlecrown 170mm travel forks but thats about it. they seem to be built for very different purposes. Marzocchi very obviously feel confident with the strength of their product because of them marketing at DH/Extreme (sorry to use that word again) FR and they're going to warranty the product for that use. Marzocchi over the last year or so have been making it very clear what the intended use for their forks are and if you 'abuse' them by doing something they said you shouldn't then its your fault. giving the 66 a purpose of being a very heavy duty fork is pretty much saying 'do what you like with it' and they'll warranty it.

I'm still not sure what you mean by the forks are intended for different purposes. Are you saying Manitou isn't marketing the breakout plus as a DH fork (based on what?) Or are you just trying to say you think the 66 is stronger, and therefore a weight penalty is justified? Also are you implying that Manitou will NOT warranty their forks if you ride it as someone could presumably ride a 66? You're making an interesting argument at the end as well. Marzocchi is stepping up the constraints of its warranty, presumably because people have been breaking lots of forks, thus if Marz were to theoretically give you a get out of warrantry jail free card w/ the 66, it MUST be strong. Hrm. On a side note, has anyone come across a broken Breakout yet?


Let me end by saying, I'm not out to "own" anybody or pick a sweet sweet internet message board fight. Rather, I just think if you hold a strong allegiance to a company, do it a favor, and choose your arguments and words wisely.

 

[The Kadvang]

Seeing as this is intended as a long travel enduro bike fork, the 1.125 steerer makes sense. It is intended more for 26-28 lb 6 inch travel XC/ trail bikes. It is not a hucker fork.
dw

Isn't the new Nixon the fork for that style? The flick has been previously marketed as a DJ/Urban/Freeride fork, not an All Mountain or Enduro fork. Not that it couldn't be used as such, but to me it seems that the Minute/Nixon would fill that area nicely. I have trouble seeing why someone doing AM/Enduro riding would chose the new 6" flick over the nixon, but hey, why not.

The bottom line is that this fork was not intended to, and will most likely not take the same abuse as the 1.5 version, and furthermore, if they wanted to build a 1.125 version that did take the same abuse as the 1.5 fork, it would end up being much heavier.

I agree completely.

 

[Jm_]

Seeing as this is intended as a long travel enduro bike fork, the 1.125 steerer makes sense. It is intended more for 26-28 lb 6 inch travel XC/ trail bikes. It is not a hucker fork.

The bottom line is that this fork was not intended to, and will most likely not take the same abuse as the 1.5 version, and furthermore, if they wanted to build a 1.125 version that did take the same abuse as the 1.5 fork, it would end up being much heavier.

Yet, the only real diff between the two forks is the 1.5 correct? In other words, same chassi sans crown (flick, firefly, breakout...) ?

I know that the 1.5 changes quite a bit, but these are beefy forks overal (the firefly is 5.4lbs afterall) just like the Z150s are beefy forks...i'd think that they could take at least the kind of abuse that a Z1 takes, if not a bit more...


I'm always trying to start sh*t

 

[The Kadvang]

Yep, JM, thats what I was trying to say. I see the Flick/Firefly/Breakout (the entire Sherman line) as beefy forks meant to take DJ/FR/Whatever abuse. I don't think this would change with the 1.125 steerer, but who knows.

 

[PepperJester]

thre is really no need for a 1.5 in my opinon. 1.125 works well enuff. how many forks do we see with broken steer tubes these days? very very fue.

marz proved we don't need 1.5 for 6in SC forks, thier steer tubes are not snapping of. but its unforinate that their crowns have not been so lucky.

manitou will be able to get away with the standard steer on the flick because the flick is better designed then the other forks that are braking such as the z150's

 

[Toshi]

PepperJester, the Z150 is quite a bit heavier than the equivalent Breakout or Breakout+ with an aluminum steerer. that goes against "marz proved we don't need 1.5 for 6in SC forks"...

 

[Tarpon]

It is likely that the 1.5 crown interface is stronger than 1.125 as well. But I would guess the failures in the Marzocchi crowns are from the stress concentrations due to the "M" or manufacturing problems.