[ILikeFood]

I'm trying to decide on a new set of wheels for my Uzzi VPX, and while the hubs are an easy choice (Hadley's with a Saint axle) the Rims are not so clear. I really want to try a tubeless system, and I want something that isn't brick-heavy. So the choices as I see it are:

- EX823's - very heavy and still unproven for 05. The 04's had a lot of bad problems...
- XM819's - Light and narrow, maybe too narrow. Can't find too many positive reviews yet.
- Sun Single Track STS - Can't find any reviews, but I've been happy with normal Single Tracks in the past...the STS version seems really heavy though.
- Stan's ZTR Freeride - Lots of "hopeful" pre-review stuff not a lot of hands on reviews. A lot of people have a lot of bad things to say about first-run Stan's products.

What have you guys found as a good medium-weight (i.e. pedals up the hill) freeride tubeless rim?

To further complicate matters, I've also been advised away from Saint to go with a SRAM rear deraileur and the 10mm quick-axle option. The Saint is very heavy and rapidrise; whereas the SRAM has a lot of the same features (i.e. good chain tension and no forward rotaiton) with a lot less weight.

Thanks for any advice,
-f00d

 

[buildyourown]

First, I don't see how the SRAM recommendation complicates things. If you can save some weight...great!

As for the rim question: Have you tried a stan's or similar ghetto tubless system. I too was waiting for the UST issues to get ironed out before I tried tubeless. I been running ghetto tubeless for a few months with no issues.
It's a mess to change tires, but otherwise, it's a great way to save 200g per wheel.

 

[Jeremy R]

Yeah, listen to the guy above.
I have been running Stan's tubeless in the Sun MTX rims with great results.
If you want to save even more weight and money, run tubeless in Rhyno Light XL rim.
UST is a sweet system, but the rim choices blow bison right now.

 

[biker3]

Go for the new 823's. Ive had mine for a while. Ive raced at AngelFire and Deer Valley on them which are fairly rocky places. Theyve held up fine. Ive hit them hard tons and no flat spots or anything. Im running a DHF 2.5 UST up front and a 2.5 highroller or DHR UST in the rear. I tore through the highroller but I cant say anything bad about the DHR and DHR. I love Tubeless. Ive been running tubeless since last season and ever since Ive NEVER flatted in a race run or practice which is saying a lot.

 

[ILikeFood]

First, I don't see how the SRAM recommendation complicates things. If you can save some weight...great!

As for the rim question: Have you tried a stan's or similar ghetto tubless system. I too was waiting for the UST issues to get ironed out before I tried tubeless. I been running ghetto tubeless for a few months with no issues.
It's a mess to change tires, but otherwise, it's a great way to save 200g per wheel.

I'm not too afraid of going the ghetto route...but I have the money budgeted for a new set of hoops. So I'm just wondering what direction to go in, it feels weird to just buy some standard rims and no-tubes them.

-f00d

 

[iridebikes]

ghetto tubless works wonders. I've had no problems, and I've only put air in my tires a total of 3 times(once was when I orininaly mounted the tires). and I've had them for probably 4 months. ust tires and a 20 inch tube on any rim, works great! I'd suggest mavic 721's over the 823's. I weighted a set of hadley hubs and 823's and it was alot heavier than i thought it would be. front wheel was something like 1200 grams. there are definatly lighter options out there than hadley, but with hadley, you don't have to ever worry about the strength.

 

[.:Jeenyus:.]

My 823's are running strong with no dents or flatspots so far.

 

[Transcend]

721s, maxxis rim strips, stans sealant. Done.

 

[trailhacker]

- Sun Single Track STS - Can't find any reviews, but I've been happy with normal Single Tracks in the past...the STS version seems really heavy though.

I talked to the guy an Sun (Ryan?) becasue I ordered a set of the STS's at the beginning of the year (sponsor deal) and hadn't seen them yet. He said at this time they aren't going to release a tubeless rim now or anytime in the near future.
He said that they were working with Stans, hence the link on the website, and that they were happy with that setup.

 

[tacobelldhr]

mavic is a great rim but... the new dt swiss fr 6.1 are way bad ass and only a few grams heavier than 729 ...http://www.dtswiss.com/index.asp?fuseaction=rims.bikedetail&id=11

 

[tacobelldhr]

by the way you can get the stan's strip's for those and BAM! tubeless

 

[dlb]

Does anyone have the weight of the 721 and the 823's with the spoke adapters and stans strips? Just wondering the difference. Thanks

 

[Transcend]

Does anyone have the weight of the 721 and the 823's with the spoke adapters and stans strips? Just wondering the difference. Thanks

I believe the 823 ends up being a bit heavier with the adapters.

 

[Dusty Bottoms]

I believe the 823 ends up being a bit heavier with the adapters.

Assuming tubeless, doesn't the neccessity for a rim strip on the 721 make it the heavier choice?

 

[frorider]

My 823's are running strong with no dents or flatspots so far.

mine are running strong too. i've been asking aruond and it seems all users agree they are a big improvement over 2004. any rim can fail, but I would put these in the 'strong' category now.

 

[James | Go-Ride]

Scott has been running the Stans DH/FR rims for a few months now, although with a fairly limited amount of use, you might want to call down and bug him about them.

 

[descender]

823s with UST tires works great.

 

[Mountain_Dewd]

I just got a new 823 36 hole laced up on a hadley with alpine 3's for my front wheel, i put a trusty 2.8 michie on and it seated right away, i saved about 400 grams going from a arrow dhx and tube to this setup with the same tire.

The new rim looks much more reliable than last years which blew. I am about to go to whistler for two weeks and i think it will hold up to my hard riding 200 lbs. but who knows, i never thought id hurt a dhx but tacoed one earlier this year that led to the 823. but that was in a big crash.

 

[meatboot]

I run 823s ('04 front and '05 rear) laced to Hadleys on my Uzzi and I'm very happy with the set up.

I didn't want to have to use Stan's because I absolutely hate goop in tires -- back when I worked in shops, I used to pretend I had to go to the bathroom when someone brought in a tire with slime in it.

I just got back from a week in BC/Whistler and no flat spots or dings despite flating more times that I would have liked (guess I might have to run Stan's after all). In fact, the rear has a big scratch on it from a rock impact that definitely would have dinged my 729s.

I'm a "pedal up" kind of guy to, and I thought the weight was ok.

This would be a hot set up too; my friend is running it on his VPX.

721s, maxxis rim strips, stans sealant. Done.

My only objections were the Stan's thing, and that 721s give 2.5s a little rounder profile than I'd like.

Couple notes on the Hadley's: First, get the 108s. I was really surprised and how much the rapid engagement improved my riding. Second thing to keep in mind is that the non-turn end on the Hadley 10mm axle isn't compatible with the step down donuts. Unless you're positive you're going to run Saint, I'd go with the 12mm TA. If you decide to run Saint later (or SRAM comes out with a similar system also based on 10mm axles) would can always get the kit to convert to 10mm, or Problem Solvers makes a reducer. Or you could get a 10mm TA that's nutted on both sides.

 

[frorider]

I run 823s ('04 front and '05 rear) laced to Hadleys on my Uzzi and I'm very happy with the set up.

I didn't want to have to use Stan's because I absolutely hate goop in tires -- back when I worked in shops, I used to pretend I had to go to the bathroom when someone brought in a tire with slime in it.

I just got back from a week in BC/Whistler and no flat spots or dings despite flating more times that I would have liked (guess I might have to run Stan's after all). In fact, the rear has a big scratch on it from a rock impact that definitely would have dinged my 729s.

I'm a "pedal up" kind of guy to, and I thought the weight was ok.

This would be a hot set up too; my friend is running it on his VPX.


My only objections were the Stan's thing, and that 721s give 2.5s a little rounder profile than I'd like.

Couple notes on the Hadley's: First, get the 108s. I was really surprised and how much the rapid engagement improved my riding. Second thing to keep in mind is that the non-turn end on the Hadley 10mm axle isn't compatible with the step down donuts. Unless you're positive you're going to run Saint, I'd go with the 12mm TA. If you decide to run Saint later (or SRAM comes out with a similar system also based on 10mm axles) would can always get the kit to convert to 10mm, or Problem Solvers makes a reducer. Or you could get a 10mm TA that's nutted on both sides.

interesting comment on the hadleys. before building up my 823 set, i asked around for opinons on the 108 vs regular. i tend to put hella stress on freehubs, i guess 'cos i have large leg muscles, anyway bottom line is that the consensus from shops like go-ride was to stick w/ the regular hadley engagement. there's less total engagement interfaces w/ the 108, right?

have you tried the motoX slime? i've only been using it for a month, no problems yet. it seems a lot more viscous and thick, which I hope means that when i have to mess w/ the tire it won't tend to get all over everything like STan's does. ANd it has all these little chunks of rubber suspended in it that help it seal up slits.

 

[meatboot]

interesting comment on the hadleys. before building up my 823 set, i asked around for opinons on the 108 vs regular. i tend to put hella stress on freehubs, i guess 'cos i have large leg muscles, anyway bottom line is that the consensus from shops like go-ride was to stick w/ the regular hadley engagement. there's less total engagement interfaces w/ the 108, right?

have you tried the motoX slime? i've only been using it for a month, no problems yet. it seems a lot more viscous and thick, which I hope means that when i have to mess w/ the tire it won't tend to get all over everything like STan's does. ANd it has all these little chunks of rubber suspended in it that help it seal up slits.

The standard Hadley line is that the regular engagement 36 is more appropriate for heavier riders, which I guess would extrapolate to freehub killers. There was a thread a while back on the subject and no one reported any explosions. I being a 97lbs weakling went with that, despite having blown up a freehub or two of my own in the past. Although I hate to imput ill will to shops I don't even know, another possible reason for the recommendation against 108s is that they can be harder to get: as far as I know, you have to call Hadley directly to get them (and they're pretty much a one woman shop) as opposed to just picking up the phone to BTI or QBP. The shops might've been trying to save you the hassle of waiting for them. Regardless, if you're dying to try the 108 it's simply a matter of getting a new freehub body rather than a whole new hub.

As far as the sealant, thanks for the recommendation. The chunks thing sounds particularly attractive, since I'm running into the sidewall slits problem on my Michies.

 

[James | Go-Ride]

Although I hate to imput ill will to shops I don't even know, another possible reason for the recommendation against 108s is that they can be harder to get: as far as I know, you have to call Hadley directly to get them (and they're pretty much a one woman shop) as opposed to just picking up the phone to BTI or QBP. The shops might've been trying to save you the hassle of waiting for them. Regardless, if you're dying to try the 108 it's simply a matter of getting a new freehub body rather than a whole new hub.

In my experience, we're usually better off going straight to Hadley anyway, in terms of availability. There's really not much of a difference in wait time for the 36 vs the 108.

The recommendation for heavier riders makes sense for two reasons. The first is the life of the engagement mechanism itself. Having only two pawls in contact instead of six under heavy loads should lead to more frequent failures. Of course, because Hadley hubs are made so well, we're talking about one failure in maybe 5 years under a clydesdale XC rider intead of one in 10. The other reason is that with the 108 engagement, there's uneven load on the axle and bearings which, again, will wear faster than the 36 point version would.

A couple of other things. You can't just pick between 10mm and 12mm hubs, unless you have an old M1 or Azonic Recoil or something with the spacers. Most frames don't have the option of just randomly picking an axle size, if you have QR dropouts you run the 10mm Hadley, if you have a 12mm axle, you run the 12mm hub. Second, Stans is a totally different substance than Slime. Slime sucks. Stans doesn't all wind up dried out in one spot as long as the bike gets ridden once a week or so. We run Stans stuff in normal tubes and in our motos, it works really well and is cheap insurance against smaller punctures without adding much weight.

 

[meatboot]

The recommendation for heavier riders makes sense for two reasons. The first is the life of the engagement mechanism itself. Having only two pawls in contact instead of six under heavy loads should lead to more frequent failures. Of course, because Hadley hubs are made so well, we're talking about one failure in maybe 5 years under a clydesdale XC rider intead of one in 10. The other reason is that with the 108 engagement, there's uneven load on the axle and bearings which, again, will wear faster than the 36 point version would.

True, but wouldn't the response be that since there's less time for momentum to build up because they engage faster, there's less stress on the pawls? Yes, it does load the mechanism unevenly, but we're also talking about a hub with a thumb-sized axle and roller bearings under the cassette body.

Still, you could be entirely right about the life thing and I'd still run the 108s. It's been a long time, if ever, since a component improved my riding and I'm willing to take the risk of slamming my knees into the handlebars once every 5 years. Hell, I do that anyway. And they make a cool noise too boot, not annoying like Kings or Ringles, but maybe that's just because they're on my bike. neaky:

A couple of other things. You can't just pick between 10mm and 12mm hubs, unless you have an old M1 or Azonic Recoil or something with the spacers. Most frames don't have the option of just randomly picking an axle size, if you have QR dropouts you run the 10mm Hadley, if you have a 12mm axle, you run the 12mm hub. .

Thanks for the heads up, but we're talking about wheels for an Uzzi VPX, which does use spacers like the M1.

 

[James | Go-Ride]

True, but wouldn't the response be that since there's less time for momentum to build up because they engage faster, there's less stress on the pawls? Yes, it does load the mechanism unevenly, but we're also talking about a hub with a thumb-sized axle and roller bearings under the cassette body.

Still, you could be entirely right about the life thing and I'd still run the 108s. It's been a long time, if ever, since a component improved my riding and I'm willing to take the risk of slamming my knees into the handlebars once every 5 years. Hell, I do that anyway. And they make a cool noise too boot, not annoying like Kings or Ringles, but maybe that's just because they're on my bike. neaky:



Thanks for the heads up, but we're talking about wheels for an Uzzi VPX, which does use spacers like the M1.

Right, I realized you were talking about the Uzzi shortly after my post, I just wanted to clarify (in case anybody with, say, a 6 Pack was reading and got confused). Also, to be totally honest, Hadleys are such nice hubs, I don't think it really matters whether people have the 36 or the 108 in terms of durability. They're both pretty awesome.