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New Whip? New toys for the dependable steed?

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,192
1,160
I'm looking to get a bit more ramp out of my shock (currently running my Megatrail in the more progressive setting with a linear 375# EXT spring). A buddy returned my 390-430 Sprindex, and I ordered a 340-380 Sprindex and a 400-480 Valt Progressive. I'll check sag with both the new springs and return whichever is further off, then ride the other. Right now I'm only measuring like 0.25-0.5mm less sag with the 390 Sprindex vs the 375 EXT, so less than 1% difference in sag, which is about what I expected due to spring variability.

I'm hoping the Valt works - I had good luck with one of those on my 11-6 on my Sentinel (very linear bike). The Sprindex progression supposedly only kicks on at the last 20%, whereas the Valt is supposed to start ramping closer to 50%, which is what I want.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,111
1,799
Northern California
I'm looking to get a bit more ramp out of my shock (currently running my Megatrail in the more progressive setting with a linear 375# EXT spring). A buddy returned my 390-430 Sprindex, and I ordered a 340-380 Sprindex and a 400-480 Valt Progressive. I'll check sag with both the new springs and return whichever is further off, then ride the other. Right now I'm only measuring like 0.25-0.5mm less sag with the 390 Sprindex vs the 375 EXT, so less than 1% difference in sag, which is about what I expected due to spring variability.

I'm hoping the Valt works - I had good luck with one of those on my 11-6 on my Sentinel (very linear bike). The Sprindex progression supposedly only kicks on at the last 20%, whereas the Valt is supposed to start ramping closer to 50%, which is what I want.
The Sprindex is regressive vs progressive. You can see bench test results here - https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/components/rear-shocks/sprindex-adjustable-coil-spring-review/.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,192
1,160
The Sprindex is regressive vs progressive. You can see bench test results here - https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/components/rear-shocks/sprindex-adjustable-coil-spring-review/.
Hmm thanks. I'd seen that article before but forgot about it. If it was 10% softer at the start but only 2% off the stated value at 75% travel, wouldn't that make it more progressive? So going from 374# at start to 382# at 75%.

Their measurements do coincide with what I'm feeling (the 390 setting is very, very close to my 375# EXT, which has it's own inaccuracy).

Or are you saying that it's regressive at start from the stated value?
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,111
1,799
Northern California
Hmm thanks. I'd seen that article before but forgot about it. If it was 10% softer at the start but only 2% off the stated value at 75% travel, wouldn't that make it more progressive? So going from 374# at start to 382# at 75%.

Their measurements do coincide with what I'm feeling (the 390 setting is very, very close to my 375# EXT, which has it's own inaccuracy).

Or are you saying that it's regressive at start from the stated value?
The rate of force it takes to compress the spring decreases as you compress the spring, which makes it regressive. Normally a coil spring's rate is ~linear - ie a 400lb/in spring takes 400lbs to compress 1 inch, 800 lbs to compress 2 inches etc. If a spring takes 400lbs to compress 1 inch, but only 700lbs to compress 2 inches the rate is regressive.

From the article -

"As far as adjustments go, the Sprindex works as it should, but the range isn’t quite as large as stated. In the initial part of the stroke we recorded a 10 per cent difference in spring rate, but this reduced to 2 per cent when the spring was compressed by two inches (75 per cent of the 2.6in stroke on my shock).

This corresponds to what I felt out on the trail, which is that there’s a notable difference early in the stroke, but deeper into the travel, the effect lessens. Part of this is down to the way the plastic adjuster effectively shortens the coil.

We observed on the testing jig that when the forces exerted on the shock reached a certain point, the coil started bending around the edge of the plastic adjuster. This deflection effectively makes the spring longer again and therefore softer."
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,727
7,074
My 4mm was bent and sketchy.
View attachment 173072
Yeah I bought a screwdriver set and a couple of the flat blade tips weren't cut straight, my current stubby carby servicing set doesn't fit in to Philips screws all that well, I'm gonna swap all the bits out as the handle and case are nice.
The price is pretty nuts considering they don't make much outta Germany, you can get German made Wiha for less and it performs better according to this case study of one-
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,837
5,212
Australia
i have the same set. very nice.
Ditto. Great set. I was worried the plastic coating would flare out and get ratty but I've had mine for years and they're still fine.

The price is pretty nuts considering they don't make much outta Germany, you can get German made Wiha for less and it performs better according to this case study of one
Wera vs Wiha battles have been running for years. I don't think either is really better overall, just the bits and pieces from one or the other stand out although I like Wera's hex engagement better for stupid shallow fasteners etc. I've got their 1/4" socket set as well and while its pretty nice, my Stahlwille set makes it look very average. I'd try the Stahlwille allen keys but I've gotten so used to the coloured Wera set I don't wanna change.

I forget the brand the makes those really nice sliding T handle hex wrenches. That's my dream set. Until then I've got a cheapish Bondhus T handle set.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,727
7,074
Ditto. Great set. I was worried the plastic coating would flare out and get ratty but I've had mine for years and they're still fine.



Wera vs Wiha battles have been running for years. I don't think either is really better overall, just the bits and pieces from one or the other stand out although I like Wera's hex engagement better for stupid shallow fasteners etc. I've got their 1/4" socket set as well and while its pretty nice, my Stahlwille set makes it look very average. I'd try the Stahlwille allen keys but I've gotten so used to the coloured Wera set I don't wanna change.

I forget the brand the makes those really nice sliding T handle hex wrenches. That's my dream set. Until then I've got a cheapish Bondhus T handle set.
I guess for pro bike level use the Wera would be better for reducing RSI type problems.

USAG or Facom? I'm hoping that the Facoms show up in Australia with Sidchrome branding, they have been doing it for a bunch of Facom tools and they are cheaper in Aus than pretty much anywhere else, it's weird.
Since you are an Aussie, don't buy the SP sliding T handles, they suck.

I could never have a Stahlwille 1/4" set, they are crazy money and I am forgetful.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,612
3,122
The bunker at parliament
Park tools do the sliding T's I have a set and so far (14 months in) performing brilliantly in the workshop, only 1 of the 2mm has had a tip snap off undoing a home mechanics work which is pretty good, I normally don't get this sort of lifespan from Hex and Torx tools.
Feedback Sports also to T's (non sliding) that are crap, they last about 3 months in my workshop before they are worn out and rounding out stuff.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,837
5,212
Australia
USAG or Facom? I'm hoping that the Facoms show up in Australia with Sidchrome branding, they have been doing it for a bunch of Facom tools and they are cheaper in Aus than pretty much anywhere else, it's weird.
Since you are an Aussie, don't buy the SP sliding T handles, they suck.

I could never have a Stahlwille 1/4" set, they are crazy money and I am forgetful.
Facom are the ones I'm thinking of. I used a set once and they were pretty damn nice. Been on my wishlist since. I'll google the USAG ones.

Yeah the Stahlwille 1/4" set was a work set unfortunately in my my possession when my last job made us all redundant cos COVID. Somehow, didn't make it back to them. Terrible tragedy that.
 

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,780
5,217
North Van
I have adjusted my seat post height, and confirm that the Wera have performed admirably.

All joking a salad, the engagement in the bolt head is palpably(?) better than my Canadian Tire special mega set Allen wrenches.

I expect these to make me happy every time I use
them. Or else…
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,192
1,160
The rate of force it takes to compress the spring decreases as you compress the spring, which makes it regressive. Normally a coil spring's rate is ~linear - ie a 400lb/in spring takes 400lbs to compress 1 inch, 800 lbs to compress 2 inches etc. If a spring takes 400lbs to compress 1 inch, but only 700lbs to compress 2 inches the rate is regressive.

From the article -

"As far as adjustments go, the Sprindex works as it should, but the range isn’t quite as large as stated. In the initial part of the stroke we recorded a 10 per cent difference in spring rate, but this reduced to 2 per cent when the spring was compressed by two inches (75 per cent of the 2.6in stroke on my shock).

This corresponds to what I felt out on the trail, which is that there’s a notable difference early in the stroke, but deeper into the travel, the effect lessens. Part of this is down to the way the plastic adjuster effectively shortens the coil.

We observed on the testing jig that when the forces exerted on the shock reached a certain point, the coil started bending around the edge of the plastic adjuster. This deflection effectively makes the spring longer again and therefore softer."
Yeah, so initial plan cratered. The 380 Sprindex adjuster rattled loosely out of the box, so I returned it (besides your reasons). Cane Creek is 35mm ID, so didn't fit, and is getting returned.

I did remember about Race Only Springs, so I emailed them to see what the length of their 375-430 spring is. Their springs are meant for a 75mm stroke, but I've got 45mm of space between the preload collar and the end of threads with a 120mm long spring. Fingers crossed it'll fit, because that's pretty much exactly the rate I want.
 

Loki87

Monkey
Aug 24, 2008
181
146
Salzburg, Austria
Ditto. Great set. I was worried the plastic coating would flare out and get ratty but I've had mine for years and they're still fine.



Wera vs Wiha battles have been running for years. I don't think either is really better overall, just the bits and pieces from one or the other stand out although I like Wera's hex engagement better for stupid shallow fasteners etc. I've got their 1/4" socket set as well and while its pretty nice, my Stahlwille set makes it look very average. I'd try the Stahlwille allen keys but I've gotten so used to the coloured Wera set I don't wanna change.

I forget the brand the makes those really nice sliding T handle hex wrenches. That's my dream set. Until then I've got a cheapish Bondhus T handle set.
You mean the ones all the worldcup wrenches use?
Those are made by Beta and yes, they put all others to shame. The fit is incredibly precise. Absolutely love mine.
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,088
1,235
El Lay
Thanks - that thing certainly looks nice, but I need a bell that "auto-rings" for use on the trail.

I use these due to the on/off switch. Unfortunately, they have a limited life span and aren't rebuildable.
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
5,326
2,422
not in Whistler anymore :/
Thanks - that thing certainly looks nice, but I need a bell that "auto-rings" for use on the trail.

I use these due to the on/off switch. Unfortunately, they have a limited life span and aren't rebuildable.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,727
7,074
I had that one and it broke! Then I had to do the most Karen thing ever and warranty a fucken bell. I ended up getting the more durable looking model down as a replacement with the credit just do be safe.
Ohhh, I ordered this one about reading the bad reviews on the other one.
Knog stuff has always been shit in my experience, but there didn't seem to be anything else that would fit.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,837
5,212
Australia
Ohhh, I ordered this one about reading the bad reviews on the other one.
Knog stuff has always been shit in my experience, but there didn't seem to be anything else that would fit.
To be fair, the clanger thingy on mine went missing sometime on the ride back from the pub so it may have been user error involved.