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New Whip? New toys for the dependable steed?

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,151
3,876
sw ontario canada
I had a few pretty bad experiences with S4 back in the day. Messed up a bunch of stuff for me and my buddies. I would send my stuff to Vorsprung for all the service as a result. I was really bummed when I learned that Vorsprung separated their service business and sold it to S4. I'm really torn now whether to send my Tractive tuned Monarch to S4. I think the best solution is to send it to the BC location. My hope being that the techs out there are the same that worked for Vorsprung...
Damn.
Hopefully I got a mid-week build. Keeping fingers crossed.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,761
19,833
Canaderp
I had a few pretty bad experiences with S4 back in the day. Messed up a bunch of stuff for me and my buddies. I would send my stuff to Vorsprung for all the service as a result. I was really bummed when I learned that Vorsprung separated their service business and sold it to S4. I'm really torn now whether to send my Tractive tuned Monarch to S4. I think the best solution is to send it to the BC location. My hope being that the techs out there are the same that worked for Vorsprung...
Thats a bummer to hear about, same with what @konifere experienced.

So do they now have 3 service locations - Quebec, Whistler and Vorsprung's shop in Squamish?

I guess things can change over time, hopefully @mykel can prove this correct.

I was mostly excited about S4, as like what Mykel described, they have a pretty straight forward process for getting the suspension bits to them. I was always a little hesitant to send stuff out West due to the cost, but now that I'm not a fool and realize that shipping is almost the same - questions have been opened.

I do like S4's website for parts, they have a lot to offer. Doubly so if they keep having that huge deal around Christmas time. I've personally had two small mishaps with orders from them - one time they sent a bag of DU bushings, instead of polymer bushings - which to their credit they just admitted as a mistake and shipped out the proper ones quickly (if anyone wants some Fox DU bushings, I have some for freetiddy). Then the 170mm Zeb I ordered - they changed the travel on a 180mm version and shipped me that. I was so confused when it arrived, I questioned if I had made the mistake when I ordered it or not. But nope, on the invoice at the bottom it just had a little one line note saying something like "170mm version" they should have put this in bold or highlighted it on the invoice - even the box was the 180mm version. On a plus side, at least (or so I hope), that the fork has been given a thorough once over from them through the process and it at least has oil inside of it.
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
557
687
They (S4) are super friendly and are good people so I'd love to give them my business, but the few mistakes that they've done did not inspire me confidence in their tech work. Plus they used Canpar (I don't know if it's still the case) for shipping, did not give the tracking info, and I had to drive to the other side of town after work to go get my packages since they did not knock at the door and left a note. It was always a hassle and I hope they've changed that.

Sign up for a small business account with Canada Post and you'll save some money on shipping fees. It's the clerk at the post office who told me to do it (I don't have a small business haha) so I could save on expensive packages. You'll see that it's not much more costly to ship across the country than to ship locally, especially for bigger packages like fork boxes. I've checked with othe companies (and ShipTime) and CP pretty much always end up being the cheapest option.

If you want to go S4, I'd find a way to know if the S4 office (formerly Melius) in BC has the same staff, otherwise I'd recommend Suspension Werx in North Vancouver. They've been fast, great communication, great work and just as friendly as S4.
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,151
3,876
sw ontario canada
They (S4) are super friendly and are good people so I'd love to give them my business, but the few mistakes that they've done did not inspire me confidence in their tech work. Plus they used Canpar (I don't know if it's still the case) for shipping, did not give the tracking info, and I had to drive to the other side of town after work to go get my packages since they did not knock at the door and left a note. It was always a hassle and I hope they've changed that.

Sign up for a small business account with Canada Post and you'll save some money on shipping fees. It's the clerk at the post office who told me to do it (I don't have a small business haha) so I could save on expensive packages. You'll see that it's not much more costly to ship across the country than to ship locally, especially for bigger packages like fork boxes. I've checked with othe companies (and ShipTime) and CP pretty much always end up being the cheapest option.

If you want to go S4, I'd find a way to know if the S4 office (formerly Melius) in BC has the same staff, otherwise I'd recommend Suspension Werx in North Vancouver. They've been fast, great communication, great work and just as friendly as S4.

For me it was a Can-Par pickup. Guy arrived in the time window I was given.
Got a tracking number that worked all the way there.
Return was by UPS.
Again tracking number worked a charm and it arrived in the time window specified.

Lets now see how happy I am with the actual work performed. Now we wait for the brown coloured ground covering.
Round trip for a forkbox with fork and shock was 30.00 cdn.
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
557
687
I guess the Canpar service is region-dependent and that was a few years ago so things must have improved. My last orders (this year) from S4 were small parts that fit in my mailbox so they just left it in even if I was away, which was perfect.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,390
830
I used to send my stuff to PUSH and SuspensionWerx. I always got great service from both places, but I prefer SW since there is no border crossing.

My only experience with S4: My friend borrowed my nice Lyrik box to send his fork to S4 a few months ago. They kept the nice box and returned the fork in a piece of shit box from the dumpster. :(
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,151
3,876
sw ontario canada
I used to send my stuff to PUSH and SuspensionWerx. I always got great service from both places, but I prefer SW since there is no border crossing.

My only experience with S4: My friend borrowed my nice Lyrik box to send his fork to S4 a few months ago. They kept the nice box and returned the fork in a piece of shit box from the dumpster. :(
Yup, went up in a nice Marzocchi box, came back in an Amazon special.
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
557
687
That won't beat DVO USA who serviced my Jade shock recently (for the 3rd time in a year because it was knocking, then leaking, WTF). One sticker was peeling off because oil creeped underneath it. They cut it right on the reservoir with a knife, which left two ugly knife marks on the reservoir, and a cut sticker that looked like shit anyway. I just removed it and asked them wtf was wrong? It was still like new and I considered selling it because I had so much trouble with it. But now I'll keep it.

Oh, and they also threw away my nice DIY box with hot glued foam inside on which I had politely written "Please keep this box to send it back in". First world problems but still annoying!
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
557
687
Sorry for the thread derailing. Here's my new just-finished NS hardtail for 2023. It was supposed to be a parts-bin build, but I ended up building it 90% of new parts :clapping: My FS build will probably end up being done in August with the spare time that I have so this will most likely be my main bike this summer.
NS.jpg
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,761
19,833
Canaderp
Yup, went up in a nice Marzocchi box, came back in an Amazon special.
Balls!

Speaking of which, I just got word from Full Cycle that my 27.5 Zeb is ready to be shipped back to me. So I guess we'll see how Sram's service center in Vancouver handles that - I sent them my pristine, beautiful and well-tailored (lol) box from the new Zeb.

They ended up replacing the whole damper, under warranty, due to it leaking oil out from under the top side compression dials.
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,151
3,876
sw ontario canada
Balls!

Speaking of which, I just got word from Full Cycle that my 27.5 Zeb is ready to be shipped back to me. So I guess we'll see how Sram's service center in Vancouver handles that - I sent them my pristine, beautiful and well-tailored (lol) box from the new Zeb.

They ended up replacing the whole damper, under warranty, due to it leaking oil out from under the top side compression dials.

I'm betting it will at least be a proper fork box.
Nice that they are just replacing it instead of faffing around with it.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,390
830
Sorry for the thread derailing. Here's my new just-finished NS hardtail for 2023. It was supposed to be a parts-bin build, but I ended up building it 90% of new parts :clapping: My FS build will probably end up being done in August with the spare time that I have so this will most likely be my main bike this summer.
View attachment 189320
Very nice! Is it the Helm Coil or Air?

I suggest you plan riding at E47 next summer. I rode my new hardtail a lot last summer and I think E47 is my favorite center on a hardtail. I find a big enduro bike is a bit overkill there, but a nice hardtail is just perfect. Enjoy! :)
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
557
687
Helm Coil Mk1. Just changed the stock 55lb spring for a 50 and it should be perfect! Your comment is timely as I'm currently debating which trail center to get my season pass. I've only been 2-3 times to E47 in the last 10 years so it could be a nice change.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,390
830
Helm Coil Mk1. Just changed the stock 55lb spring for a 50 and it should be perfect! Your comment is timely as I'm currently debating which trail center to get my season pass. I've only been 2-3 times to E47 in the last 10 years so it could be a nice change.
Nice! I was was looking at the Helm Coil for my hardtail about a year ago, but availability was scheduled for march 2023 or something crazy like that, so I went for a Lyrik Ultimate and I'm super happy with it.

I'd say the real answer for the trail center is to get season passes both at SDM and E47. I personally find SDM is better, but the good stuff at SDM can get a bit intense on a hardtail (high speed, big compressions, etc.). On the other hand, E47 can get boring on a big bike, but the level is perfect for a hardtail and it's overall a more enjoyable experience IMO. There is also the Centre Castor in Valcartier that will open this summer. Certainly worth checking out.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,761
19,833
Canaderp
Are all the "little" spots in QC on private property? Surprised there isn't a cheap seasons pass deal that encompasses multiple locations for yall. That many spots gets expensive quick, especially if you have kids, I imagine..
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,390
830
There were discussions before Covid about a pass for all centers on the region. Now that prices have increased a lot and some centers often run out of parking space on busy days, I doubt we'll see this anytime soon. I personally just take my season pass pretty much everywhere and I go wherever I want. Similar price to a ski season, but with more variety, longer and more fun. :)
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
557
687
Oh yeah I forgot about Castor! My friend is a trailbuilder for Sentiers Boreals and they worked there most of all summer last year at so it should be nice! I worked for them 2 seasons many years ago, when we built the Aurore and Boreale at VBN, part of the Neilson Nord and many others (Gaspé, SDM, East Hereford, pumptracks, etc.), but he has been the main excavator for the last 10 years and he knows his shit. It was a good time but my body couldn't take the daily pounding of 10-12 hrs of building trails every day. It taught me a lot on trail building, but also about grants/funding, land ownership, political issues, etc.

About private property, none of them own their land, except E47 which is owned by a guy who plans to develop housing/condos/etc nearby at some point. Vallée Bras du Nord operates on private (not theirs) and public lands, Sentiers du Moulin is on a mountain that's property of the city and another one that's private (not their own), Mont Ste-Anne's mountain is leased to RCR from the government of Quebec, etc...
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,700
1,751
chez moi
I just went to zee cherman vebsites and ordered some Trickstuff pads for the Magura trail brakes on my new Canfield Tilt, plus blew 85 Euro on one of those superlight 77 Designz stems while I was paying for shipping.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,095
9,750
AK
Luckily it comes in this discrete box which is not at all likely to get stolen off your doorstep…
3203DD41-A5E5-4748-ADE1-6F6828CD70AB.jpeg
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,506
In hell. Welcome!
Made another tool so I can pull the midvalve from my Avy cartridge without draining all the oil. I think this is similar to the actual Avy tool but this cost me $2.00 to make.

Was not impressed with the cartridge at first. The 'custom' tune was little better than the garbage damper I was replacing. Initial dicking around with shims didn't do much then I reduced the float on the midvalve and holy shit, love this thing now. Super supportive yet still plush enough, at least for me.

View attachment 189226
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Loving the blood stains, too.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,700
1,751
chez moi
Wait what? I thought you Secus guys laughed at us Luftkappe guys. Why the change?
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,039
1,754
Northern California
So hybrid coil...still has all the air seals...thus all the friction of an air spring. Why not just run a Secus if that's the case? Or Smashpot if you want the full coil experience?
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
So hybrid coil...still has all the air seals...thus all the friction of an air spring. Why not just run a Secus if that's the case? Or Smashpot if you want the full coil experience?
It's not a friction thing morso less progressive curve. With hybrid coil you let the coil carry majority weight air is there to adjust ride height and assist....so less progressive rate less need for a large extra negative chamber.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,506
In hell. Welcome!
It's not a friction thing morso less progressive curve. With hybrid coil you let the coil carry majority weight air is there to adjust ride height and assist....so less progressive rate less need for a large extra negative chamber.
27 PSI in my setup. Also, springs in both legs - less binding.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,620
20,437
Sleazattle
Also, springs in both legs - less binding.
Is that an actual problem though? Lateral forces on the wheel are going to create a larger torque than leg balance would. Not to mention the binding forces from simply weighting the bike with an appropriate head angle are a hell of a lot more significant. Also the damper leg is still an air spring and shoving more shit into it makes it more progressive.

Peak force imbalance should occur during rebound from full compression. You can easily reproduce this state just bouncing around in a parking lot, I don't see any signs of binding in those conditions.

I prefer some progression in a fork, but I get why someone would want something more linear with a spring, but the balance part smells like marketing BS to me. Less binding is probably technically correct, significant enough to make a difference???
 
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StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,506
In hell. Welcome!
Is that an actual problem though? Lateral forces on the wheel are going to create a larger torque than leg balance would. Not to mention the binding forces from simply weighting the bike with an appropriate head angle are a hell of a lot more significant. Also the damper leg is still an air spring and shoving more shit into it makes it more progressive.

Peak force imbalance should occur during rebound from full compression. You can easily reproduce this state just bouncing around in a parking lot, I don't see any signs of binding in those conditions.

I prefer some progression in a fork, but I get why someone would want something more linear with a spring, but the balance part smells like marketing BS to me. Less binding is probably technically correct, significant enough to make a difference???
I’ll share how I like it when I have a few rugged rides in. IMO any advantage should be more prominent during high speed events, not just bouncing around the parking lot. It’s an experiment. I can always return to the original setup, no risk of having the spring stanchion scored.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,039
1,754
Northern California
It's not a friction thing morso less progressive curve. With hybrid coil you let the coil carry majority weight air is there to adjust ride height and assist....so less progressive rate less need for a large extra negative chamber.
I agree with wanting a linear rate with some ramp later. It just seems like the Secus solves the same problem but weighs less, while the Smashpot also achieves something similar (although with a hydraulic bottom out for the ramp instead of an air spring) but gets rid of the seal drag (although introducing a problem of being in between spring rates as the % difference between springs is ~equivalent to 50lb rear spring increments).
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,506
In hell. Welcome!
I agree with wanting a linear rate with some ramp later. It just seems like the Secus solves the same problem but weighs less, while the Smashpot also achieves something similar (although with a hydraulic bottom out for the ramp instead of an air spring) but gets rid of the seal drag (although introducing a problem of being in between spring rates as the % difference between springs is ~equivalent to 50lb rear spring increments).
I was mainly after the Avy damper, got tired of the GRIP2. The hybrid coil option was just too tempting not to try, plus my air spring with secus developed an air leak somewhere lately. The Avy coil weights ~150g, btw.
 
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