I'm 6'2. No issues. Not sure I'd like 165 for pedaling but on a DH bike it feels fine.
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New Whip? New toys for the dependable steed?
- Thread starter mykel
- Start date
So, this spring I went through the overanalysis paralysis about whether to go to 170’s from 175’s. I did it, and absolutely convinced myself I could feel a torque difference, and went lower on my chainring. Ok, fine...then I was cleaning my Altitude, and saw that I had been running 170’s for the previous two years. DOH!
(However, the new bike is a 29-er, so that’s obviously different)
No point here, just a story, bruh
(However, the new bike is a 29-er, so that’s obviously different)
No point here, just a story, bruh
why not for pedalling?
for reference, I'm 5'9 with very short legs. I usually have to hem my jeans that come with a 30" inseam.
Sorry for being unclear. I was literally saying that I have no experience going to 165mm on a trail bike that I pedal. Seems pretty short for a tallish guy. But as others have said, it's possible I may not notice anything at all.
I think your height and pedal cadence both matter. I'm 6'2" with a very slow (I like to call diesel) cadence and I very much notice shorter crank arms and won't voluntarily go less than 175 on trail bike. Similar height buddy is a spinner and he seems to be just as strong on either 170 or 175 lengths based on my speed comparison to him on climbs.
My big bike is a Canyon Torque which I do trail ride occasionally to access worthy downhills and it has 165 crank arms. I feel like I have to shift more often as the smaller circles feel like they spin up much quicker and it feels quite detrimental. If you are already a high rpm, horsepower pedaler, I don't think you'll notice as much as those who are low rpm torque pedalers.
My big bike is a Canyon Torque which I do trail ride occasionally to access worthy downhills and it has 165 crank arms. I feel like I have to shift more often as the smaller circles feel like they spin up much quicker and it feels quite detrimental. If you are already a high rpm, horsepower pedaler, I don't think you'll notice as much as those who are low rpm torque pedalers.
6'2" officially, but actually I'm starting the shrinking process and am down to 6'1.5"
Not new, but definitely getting replaced when I get back to the UK at the end of the month. Expecting to be replaced with a DPX2 that I will send to TF Tuned so they can reduce the stroke and tune for my Process 153. I just missed out on a sweet deal for a X2 with the right stroke, gutted because they don't seem to come up readily on PB. DPX2s are popping up pretty regularly though, so this seems to be the best route. I have a week to see if any other options come up.
Really not impressed with this shock. Initial stroke, pushing down on the saddle or through the pedals, is smooth but mid to high speed over roots and S/M rocks results in a feeling that I can only describe as spiking. This is not something I have previously experienced before. Even on short travel bikes I can feel the bike skipping around, but it never felt like this. On big impacts it also doesn't feel controlled and feels harsh (less of an issues as I prefer this to bottoming out). The RP23 with Corset sleeve fitted to my 5 Spot (140mm travel) feels better for sure, and the X2 I have just come off was outstanding (very controlled in every way).
I am also not very impressed with the stock Lyrik, which is also too harsh over roots and rocks at mid to high speeds, and also ramps up poorly. It also takes the biggest hits to get almost full travel. I didn't get a chance to pop open to air cap before flying out, to see how many tokens come stock with the fork). Granted I have just come off a 2011 26" coil Lyrik with Avy Cart, but I was expecting a lot more from this fork. I've looked into available upgrades to see what's on the market, with the specific intention of not starting with the damper side. I installed a Lufkappe in my 2016 Solo air Pike and it really helped, but it seems like the Debonair spring is an attempt to address the same issues as the Luftkappe, but costs less. Researching the differences, its seems like it is harder to get full travel with the Luftkappe, which is something I have noticed with the Pike. Wondering is anyone can comment? Once I have done this upgrade, and if ramp up is still shit, I will look at something like the MRP Ramp Control Cart. Doing some research last night I came across the Runt, seems interesting and I haven't seen this discussed by da Monkeys (not sure if I have missed it).
https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/Introducing-The-RUNT-by-Diaz-Suspension-Design,2512
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Be advised: I have the DPX2 and am unimpressed with it. I would also describe it sort of "spikey"
Also - y u no Ribbon coil??
Also - y u no Ribbon coil??
I had a similar experience with a Super Deluxe on my Bronson. Good initial breakaway but what felt like spiking on hard hits. Vorsprung Tractive tune/kit completely changed that. I don't think they offer the kit for the non-piggy back shocks, but they can probably tune out the spike.
Smashpot it nao!
Typically I have always prioritized suspension when it comes to splashing my cash, which is typically the most costly part of upgrading anyway. But after unexpectedly having to buy a new bike I was hoping to avoid throwing a ton more cash to get the performance I am looking for (or at least I the ball park). I know what brakes, bars, stem , drivetrain I like, same with tires which I run till they done. So upgrading typically doesn’t go on and on for me, and to be honest I am relatively impressed with the stock parts that came with the bike, which are mostly new to me e.g. SRAM vs Shimano.
Just really disappointed with how poor the suspension is, to the point it makes things sketchy at speed through roots and holding a line to avoid trees. I knew I as going to change the shock, but still surprised with how bad it is. I am definitely disappointed with the Lyrik though. While I wasn’t planning to buy a new bike or upgrade for the sake of it, I have monitored reviews and comments about the new Lyriks which were mostly positive. If the Debonair spring fixes things I will be satisfied as it won’t break the bank and it’s an easy install.
Honestly the Avy cart is the bomb. Once it’s in it performs as per the tin. Self-installing is easy if some what stressful when drilling out the lower leg, and the settings are not complicated. Took a while to find the right oil (especially in Korea and Brazil) but maintenance cycles are a real bonus.
I thought the DPX2 was a great shock (intended more for trails vs the X2), and considering they arnt crazy expensive on PB (new off other bikes) It isn’t good news to hear this shock also falls short. I don’t what the weight of a coil shock, and after an X2 I don’t feel coils is needed either. Would a TF Tuned DPX2 still be crappy?
Just really disappointed with how poor the suspension is, to the point it makes things sketchy at speed through roots and holding a line to avoid trees. I knew I as going to change the shock, but still surprised with how bad it is. I am definitely disappointed with the Lyrik though. While I wasn’t planning to buy a new bike or upgrade for the sake of it, I have monitored reviews and comments about the new Lyriks which were mostly positive. If the Debonair spring fixes things I will be satisfied as it won’t break the bank and it’s an easy install.
Honestly the Avy cart is the bomb. Once it’s in it performs as per the tin. Self-installing is easy if some what stressful when drilling out the lower leg, and the settings are not complicated. Took a while to find the right oil (especially in Korea and Brazil) but maintenance cycles are a real bonus.
I thought the DPX2 was a great shock (intended more for trails vs the X2), and considering they arnt crazy expensive on PB (new off other bikes) It isn’t good news to hear this shock also falls short. I don’t what the weight of a coil shock, and after an X2 I don’t feel coils is needed either. Would a TF Tuned DPX2 still be crappy?
Might have to. Not so concerned about the weight, but I have found air forks and shocks have more pop. Something I like for most of the trails I ride. Not a cheap upgrade.
Is the issue just on the spring side? My gut feel is that this is where most of the issues are. Aside from the Lyrik RC2/Ultimate, is the damper side OK? My concern is that I won’t know until I fix the spring side first air or coil.
Obviously my 26” Lyrik has the best of both - Avy+coil
To be honest, I don't know. I've been riding Fox forks exclusively since 2006 and always their RC2 dampers. Never felt at home on friend's Pikes or Lyriks I tried.
My 2019 36 Grip2 got better by the Smashpot, staying higher in its travel while being significantly more supple at the same time. Won't go back to air.
@djjohnr - I tested the new Bronson a couple of months ago. Mainly because it was a local demo that I could test on local trails to give the best result. Aside from being the first bike that really made me want to upgrade in years (150mm travel is my current sweet spot, and just because it looks sexy) it was also the first 27.”5 bike I would ride. Thought it would take getting used to, but first run down I just opened the gas after the first corner. Instantly comfortable. What blew me away was a flat turn through roots, where my 26” bikes take muscles to get through, the Bronson smoothed out the trail and after the first run I found I could just stay off the brakes and ride it flat out. Insane. Haven’t tested the Process through this corner but with the way the suspension feels I don’t have high hopes. The Bronson also jumps so well. Other than the price tag (got to love free demos) I have heard the pivot bearings don’t last long, and there have been a few snapped or bent main axles around these parts, which also put me off.
Ok thanks for the input Flo. Defo food for thought and I will do some research on this right nao.
I have a RUNT sitting in customs as we speak.
It should get here next week as long as nobody brings donuts into the CBSA office.
I was going to go Smashpot, but got thinking...
I seem to be in between spring rates.
With the TBI and the meds, my weight can fluctuate by 20 lbs over a couple of months.
The bike is already 34 lbs.
The RUNT is 150.00 Canukistani rubles less than the Smashpot.
I put an IRT into a Mattoc, and it was a huge improvement. (lots of faffing about first though)
If I don't like it I will PB it and get a Smashpot a selection of coils and F the weight.
It is going into what was a Yari, but now has an Avy cartridge and Push seals.
BTW - Your Monkey-Fu needs work young sheng.
DSD RUNT?
https://m.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/Introducing-The-RUNT-by-Diaz-Suspension-Design,2512 Kinda reminds me of those old proprietary shocks for Trek... Same thing?
ridemonkey.bikemag.com
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Nice, it was love at first test ride for me as well, although it was really about the geometry. They supposedly made a running change to the shock tune to address the spiking issue I mentioned.
I had the exact same Kona Process 153 CR (with -1º headset cup installed). After the 2018 Trans NZ I was well and truly over the Deluxe RT and replaced it with a DPX2 (62.5mm stroke option = ~160mm travel) running a 0.8" spacer. Much better than the Deluxe RT, I used it that way from TransBC and the EWS challenger in Whistler. An X2 would be a better shock again, but obviously costs more so see what you can get if you don't want to go coil.
On the fork, I got the damper changed to the RCT3 in the shop, and put a Luftkappe in the air leg with no tokens. I ran the fork at 170mm for the Canada trip, but left it at 160mm for the NZ stuff and in Australia. I'd highly recommend either a Luftkappe or upgrading to a Debonair spring for better small bump and a lighter breakaway in the fork. It really helped tracking on bad camber and tricky sections.
Obviously, if you don't mind the weight and cost - going coil F&R is going to net the biggest improvement in traction and feel. Otherwise just try those options. I'm still running the Lyrik now on my Patrol, but am trialling both the Debonair spring and the Charger 2.1 RC2 damper. I'll report back on those once I've done some proper runs.
Ooh, looking forward to your thoughts on the Runt. I just looked at the Smashpot and the price tag is a turn off as a starting point for me right now, together with the added weight. Thinking I will start with either a Debonair Spring or Luftkappe, as they are affordable and should provide a decent improvement. I really need to focus on the shock and this will be costly on its own. Just reading through Avy's upgrades for the DPX2 now, but I am really getting pissed I missed out on that X2.I have a RUNT sitting in customs as we speak.
It should get here next week as long as nobody brings donuts into the CBSA office.
I was going to go Smashpot, but got thinking...
I seem to be in between spring rates.
With the TBI and the meds, my weight can fluctuate by 20 lbs over a couple of months.
The bike is already 34 lbs.
The RUNT is 150.00 Canukistani rubles less than the Smashpot.
I put an IRT into a Mattoc, and it was a huge improvement. (lots of faffing about first though)
If I don't like it I will PB it and get a Smashpot a selection of coils and F the weight.
It is going into what was a Yari, but now has an Avy cartridge and Push seals.
BTW - Your Monkey-Fu needs work young sheng.
DSD RUNT?
https://m.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/Introducing-The-RUNT-by-Diaz-Suspension-Design,2512 Kinda reminds me of those old proprietary shocks for Trek... Same thing?
While posting on the forum today, I realised that if I headed out to one of the Bike Parks in Wales I would get destroyed as the bike currently stands. First run down on my Chilcotin a couple of months ago was really hard on the hands and forearms (weak sauce), but it did get better after subsequent runs. But on the Process it would be hell.
I would like to says I just missed that thread you posted, but I guess I was just too lazy to check before posting. Thanks for pointing it out. Young sheng will read through so he can gain mastery.
@ Toodles - I recall your input on the DPX2 vs Deluxe (my ass) RT. Still trying to decide if I will go 60mm or 62.5mm. I was hoping the RT would be decent enough that I could complete my move and let the local trails decide what the best option would be. I expect another 4-8 weeks to have this info, so kinda sucks.
Sorry for my ignorance, but I am not up to speed with the latest forks. I though the RCT3 was the same damper but with a 3 pos switch? Not sure if comparing between Debonair and Luftkappe will be easy if you are using the Charger 2.1, but defo interest to hear feedback. The Debonair is cheaper and easier to install, and if the Charger 2.1 is significantly better then I can do this upgrade once the shock of all this out going cash dies down. Step by step upgrades as it were.
I would have to go back to confirm, but you picked up the Patrol while you were recovery from injury right? Have you had a chance to ride it yet, or are you still getting it setup? Would like to hear your thoughts between the 2. I preferred the Bronson to the Process, but its not a fair comparison at the moment. While the suspension is shit, the Process has endless traction through corners that dont have roots/rocks, the front comes up easily, it jumps well and is easy to move around when in the air. In general I am really happy, just need to get it dialed so I can get the most out of it.
Sorry for my ignorance, but I am not up to speed with the latest forks. I though the RCT3 was the same damper but with a 3 pos switch? Not sure if comparing between Debonair and Luftkappe will be easy if you are using the Charger 2.1, but defo interest to hear feedback. The Debonair is cheaper and easier to install, and if the Charger 2.1 is significantly better then I can do this upgrade once the shock of all this out going cash dies down. Step by step upgrades as it were.
I would have to go back to confirm, but you picked up the Patrol while you were recovery from injury right? Have you had a chance to ride it yet, or are you still getting it setup? Would like to hear your thoughts between the 2. I preferred the Bronson to the Process, but its not a fair comparison at the moment. While the suspension is shit, the Process has endless traction through corners that dont have roots/rocks, the front comes up easily, it jumps well and is easy to move around when in the air. In general I am really happy, just need to get it dialed so I can get the most out of it.
TBH, I've been told that the RCT3 and RC are shimmed differently but I've never pulled them apart to check, I believe the RCT3 is supposed to be softer. The shop offered to give me the RCT3 cartridge upgrade when I bought the bike so I went with it from the get-go.
The Luftkappe is certainly better than the stock air spring, I feel like the Debonair is pretty much in the middle of the two, but is less progressive than the Luftkappe (I had to add a token). It has the low friction sealhead which is noticeable when you cycle the spring by hand, but will need more time on it to see how it goes. Hopefully Vorsprung does a Luftkappe for the Debonair spring assembly one day.
I've spent a fair bit more time on the Patrol but haven't raced it yet (can't seem to stay out of hospital lately). The Patrol corners better than the Kona in my opinion, but the lower BB can be a bit tricky in the rocky sections. I don't think either has a better suspension than the other really and the Kona was stiffer and probably more robustly constructed. My main reason for the change was the longer seatstay and steeper seat angle which has been great for me.
The Luftkappe is certainly better than the stock air spring, I feel like the Debonair is pretty much in the middle of the two, but is less progressive than the Luftkappe (I had to add a token). It has the low friction sealhead which is noticeable when you cycle the spring by hand, but will need more time on it to see how it goes. Hopefully Vorsprung does a Luftkappe for the Debonair spring assembly one day.
I've spent a fair bit more time on the Patrol but haven't raced it yet (can't seem to stay out of hospital lately). The Patrol corners better than the Kona in my opinion, but the lower BB can be a bit tricky in the rocky sections. I don't think either has a better suspension than the other really and the Kona was stiffer and probably more robustly constructed. My main reason for the change was the longer seatstay and steeper seat angle which has been great for me.
Thanks for all the input Toodles. Good info for sure. Sounds like the Debonair would pair well with the MRP Cart. Less progression from the Debonair, but tunability from the MRP. Ok I am just piecing shit together and making things up now
I spoke to a Tech at TF Tuned about the Super Deluxe while I was waiting for the Process to arrive, and they really seem to prefer Fox as a whole when compare to RS. I think it was specifically to do with support and parts. Will keep an eye out for a PB dealio.
I spoke to a Tech at TF Tuned about the Super Deluxe while I was waiting for the Process to arrive, and they really seem to prefer Fox as a whole when compare to RS. I think it was specifically to do with support and parts. Will keep an eye out for a PB dealio.
So a funny story to add to my saga. Did the usual PB checks this morning to see if any new shocks have been listed. Decided to try my luck and see if there would be any Debonair springs or other upgrade bits for my Lyrik. Some fella has listed an air spring from his Pike with a Luftkappe installed, and the list price is a couple of rhubarbs lower than a Debonair spring assembly. Firstly, I have been totally focused on finding a shock that I totally forgot to check if there would be any upgrade bits listed for my fork (will be keeping an eye open for a MRP Cart or other from now on), but I didn't realise until I saw the advert that there is compatibility between a Pike and Lyrik. Since I have Luftkappe fitted to my 26" Pike that I might be selling, I have the option to move the Luftkappe over and then keep the cash for other upgrades. So a bit if a win today.
Oh my lord, and now there is this:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/formula-introduces-cts-pack-to-customize-fork-damping-curves.html
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/formula-introduces-cts-pack-to-customize-fork-damping-curves.html
A couple lift days, a few trail rides.
Frame is a medium and for sale...
Nice for the lifts, but way too much for my local pedaling. Swapped the frame out for a Clash, which serves me just as well at the lifts, while working superbly better on the local trails.
I'd assume the Q factor would have gone up as your bikes got boost too?
I'm 6ft and have 165mm cranks, the only annoyance I found is I had to put the seat up a few mm. I was clipping the on flat seated corners, yeah you lose a touch of leverage but you can pedal more and you have gears to combat your massive 6% loss in leverage.
It's still fine with 34t ring, 11-36 cass.
Luckily I didn't go to boost! New bike was still on 142, so I could reuse my rear hub.
I checked today, and my cranks are already 170, so I don't think I'm going to bother with 165. At least not yet... I needed a new chainring,so was going to use that as an excuse to get new cranks, but figured I'd wait till the winter,when there might be even better sales. Picked up a sweet blue ano blackspire ring for (somewhat) cheap instead.
Y u no fanny pack with water bottle holder?
I use a small fanny pack just for a mini-tool, my keys and my cellphone. If I had zippable pockets I'd even skip that. The less shit I need to carry on my person when riding the better.
It started with heat management for me. But I also felt like on 95% of my rides all I was bringing was a pump, a multi-tool, a spare tube and usually I drank about 1.2 l of water. It dawned on my that I could carry all those things on my bike, without a need for a pack. It helped that I already had a paid of bibs (Spesh Swat) with back pockets. I put a 500ml folding water bottle in the centre pocket of the bibs, and until last week I put my multitool in one of the side pockets. But last week I got an OneUp EDC tool for my steerer tube, with a CO2 screwed into it. I have a pump clipped and strapped next to my water bottle cage, and a spare tube strapped to the frame. As the days get cooler and my water consumption goes down, I probably won't even need the extra water in my bibs (and therefore the bibs either).
One thing I noticed after ditching the pack is that my shoulders didn't ache as much after a ride. Or rather, they were fresher during the ride. I'm still as hot on the climbs, but the heat dissipates much quicker the second you get moving again.
The added bonus is that I can now wear button-up shirts, further distancing myself from the middle-aged, mid-life crisis-having spandex warriors.
I've been thinking about moving away from them as well, using a strap for tube and doing the oneup pump/tool watercollte cage attachment. The only place I think I'd really need a pack then is for backcountry rides over 20 miles when I need more food/hydration. I do wear my pack with button down shirts with no issues - did you feel like the shirt rides up too much?
only for DH. i've run 170's on trail bikes before but went back to 175's. i'm about 6'1" for reference, and have longer legs.
To be honest, I hadn't really thought of it too much before. I've commuted with button down shirts before and appreciated the ability to adjust the amount of ventilation by opening buttons! But I'd never considered it for "real" riding.
But as my riding buddies are getting older, they're starting to obsess about Strava times, started showing up for rides in lycra, getting big balloon tires, and shudder, even doing cross-training and running intervals.
I was being honest in saying I wanted to further distance myself from all that nonsense!