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New Works Components offset headset cups

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,479
4,719
Australia
How many faceplants and torn knee ligaments has 7mm of 'reach' caused you?


What company in 2020 only has 14mm of reach difference between sizes?

2020
a) going to a longer frame saved my ass more than you'd think.

b) Don't you own a Guerrila Gravity bike? Oh sorry thats 15mm
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,479
4,719
Australia
b):rofl:

How many of these you want?
Dude, the size 2 and 3 frames are 15mm apart in their long and short settings respectively. Also, the company bothered selling the bikes with a "radical and game changing" 10mm reach difference adjustment. I guess thats a far larger change than the 7mm that the Works option gives you?

If you can't tell the difference in sizing then thats splendid. I'm just saying I'm sure 90% of riders can.

The new Sentinel is 20mm between frames sizes on the XL and XXL btw
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
You got a readin problem son?

Of course. But the idea that <10mm of anything being the only thing that is somehow making a meaningfully different bike for someone who 'rides seldom and slowly' is just barking up the wrong tree.
I also said multiple times now that yes you can 'notice the difference'. My point was that it's minor to the point of being insignificant in light of other things you could do. And if you really want something different, buy a bigger frame.


Honing in on a frame with an adjustable headtube cup and then comparing the longest with the shortest between sizes is ONE case, and a weird one at that. That only provides 15mm of adjustablility within a frame size, AGAIN, less than truly moving up or down a size. I screen capped the setting with those cups in the same position for a reason. Because those FRAME SIZES are an inch apart, just like most other frames.

So no, 7mm is not half a frame size, in any frame made in 2020. Exactly as I said.


Unrelated (possibly not) but do you own a pair of glasses that look like this? Because of enduro I mean?

 
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buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,777
4,699
Champery, Switzerland
I think some people won’t notice the difference with a reach extending headset beyond the fact that it’s only 6mm.

Recently, one of our engineers had a look at how much reach you loose due to increased stack height by going with the external cups (to get max Reach increase on a 63* headtoob). Flo Payet is pretty tall so we need to make the bike as long as possible for him. surprisingly, a normal headset was half a mil longer than the +6 reach adjust headset. You can get the most length out of a bike by running your fork/stem as low as possible and a high rise bar rather than spacers and reach headsets.
The GG frames are cool because they don’t loose the reach by increasing the stack height like in a zs49 headtube.

Also, I like reading reach arguments from a couple a fife footers.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I think some people won’t notice the difference with a reach extending headset beyond the fact that it’s only 6mm.

Recently, one of our engineers had a look at how much reach you loose due to increased stack height by going with the external cups (to get max Reach increase on a 63* headtoob). Flo Payet is pretty tall so we need to make the bike as long as possible for him. surprisingly, a normal headset was half a mil longer than the +6 reach adjust headset. You can get the most length out of a bike by running your fork/stem as low as possible and a high rise bar rather than spacers and reach headsets.
So what you're saying is that there may be other factors that influence physical reach of the rider that aren't specifically just the position of the steerer tube in the headtube of the frame.......


Interesting......








:rofl:
 

marshalolson

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2006
1,770
519
So what you're saying is that there may be other factors that influence physical reach of the rider that aren't specifically just the position of the steerer tube in the headtube of the frame.......
Did you know bike engineers can now summarize all riding characteristics of a super complex tool (the bike) in motion on a wide variety of situations (the trail), under a huge variance of pilot skill level, joint mobility, and core strength (the rider), Doing away with all other variables and factors (the setup)?

it’s called “reach”.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,777
4,699
Champery, Switzerland
So what you're saying is that there may be other factors that influence physical reach of the rider that aren't specifically just the position of the steerer tube in the headtube of the frame.......


Interesting......








:rofl:
Yeah!
Either way, I can’t pilot a long reach bike very well (nor full 29) but I can passenger it like a muthafucker!
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,479
4,719
Australia
I also said multiple times now that yes you can 'notice the difference'. My point was that it's minor to the point of being insignificant in light of other things you could do. And if you really want something different, buy a bigger frame.
Ah look its an $80 part versus a new frame. If it makes him happy then go for it.

I tend to agree that a new frame/bike is the more ideal solution, but they do tend to cost a bit more.

So no, 7mm is not half a frame size, in any frame made in 2020. Exactly as I said.
Aside from the friggen Guerrilla Gravity. For brands like Yeti, Santa Cruz, Intense that use 20mm increments on sizes it's 0.35 of a frame size instead of 0.5. My bad.

Also, I like reading reach arguments from a couple a fife footers.
I hope the altitude gives you dizzy spells Gandalf.

I know.......REACH™ is magical. The single metric around which all other factors must fall.

Because road cycling.
You keep saying that, despite the fact that its the one measurement that actually came from MTB riders where an indication of frame length while standing has some merit.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
You keep saying that, despite the fact that its the one measurement that actually came from MTB riders where an indication of frame length while standing has some merit.
Search my username and "downtube measurement". I'm an innovator.

If you can manage to think back to when you had a dh bike and rode real shit, you'll remember an even more important one.........us neanderthals called it 'wheelbase'

Which of course you'll notice is the bigger factor between sizes which most punters assume is 'reach'



I never said reach is irrelevant. What I said was minor increments are essentially irrelevant. Which 5-7mm is.

I've already said that if the headset is available, sure get it. But waiting around for it just for a few mm of the holy metric of reach to move is a waste of time. New pedals are cheaper than a new frame too. But they'll do about as much as a reach headset will do to change the handling of the bike.
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I can literally rest my chin on top of schleybletop's head :rofl:




Was hoping to find the picture where I drew dicks all over his bike with a sharpie....
I see nothing until you do.


For reals, is that a 1.5 headtube or some stupid giant proprietary shit? Asking because I may have some parts for you.
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,624
12,916
Cackalacka du Nord
i was gonna guess it was a glory...soooo close!

at least he has good rims on there. and dat 2015 36 w/rc2. he could slide the seat back on the rails a few mm...maybe not a yuge number of mm like SEVEN tho...stem already looks pretty long.

and dammit woo, y u gotta drag the nomad into this?
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,479
4,719
Australia
Lol.... not that its even relevant anymore, but for a giggle i checked what offsets headsets people are running so Kidwoo can tell them they're wrong. Neko is running +3mm, Minaar and Shaw are running +8mm, Loic Bruni is running +5mm.

Idiots all of them. I told them that new pedals will do the same but apparently they have to run what sponsors tell them and need to use reach adjust headsets instead.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Lol.... not that its even relevant anymore, but for a giggle i checked what offsets headsets people are running so Kidwoo can tell them they're wrong. Neko is running +3mm, Minaar and Shaw are running +8mm, Loic Bruni is running +5mm.

Idiots all of them. I told them that new pedals will do the same but apparently they have to run what sponsors tell them and need to use reach adjust headsets instead.
Mick hannah runs kenda tires.


Kenda.










Kenda.




When englert's buddy starts dealing with multiyear contracts, literally world cup speed, and fine tuning of finite frame sizes for multithousand dollar win bonuses, let's talk.

Until then.........you knock yourself out with that works components sponsorship proving yet again, that what pros do influences your buying habits.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
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