[James | Go-Ride]

So because you guys decided to use the other thread to talk about super important things like whether pink is flexier than brown, I'm going to repost to make it easier for other people to find the images.

http://www.go-ride.com/prod_frames_yeti.html#dh9

Also, before new readers start asking questions, PLEASE read the other 683209 pages that have already been posted this morning about the bike in the old thread - http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97385

Tanks, hoffa gud tay.

 

[dan-o]

Thanks for posting the pics. Can you explain how the rails are sealed against Snowshoe and Mt Snow type conditions?

 

[kidwoo]

Spammer!!!

 

[leprechaun]

well the bike might come with a rear fender for the swingarm.and the front rail is under the top tube sort of protected.Not really sealed though.They said that a seal wiper could be made in the shape of the rail to wipe it every compression stroke.I guess time will tell

 

[DßR]

well the bike might come with a rear fender for the swingarm.and the front rail is under the top tube sort of protected.Not really sealed though.They said that a seal wiper could be made in the shape of the rail to wipe it every compression stroke.I guess time will tell

Sounds like a hella west-coast style bike to me....

 

[Instigator]

Ok, first of all I thank the guys from go-ride for posting the pics and info. Second, now I need to figure out what needs to be sold, so I can afford one of them

 

[profro]

As was mentioned in the other thread, mills and lathes use a similar system and I am always amazed at how they stay perfect with coolant and chips in the way. I have faith that Yeti will work the system and it should work just fine. It may need a little more service under Snowshoe conditions, but heck the bearings on my DH9 were almost trashed in one weekend at the last national there. But time will tell. My biggest concern is bent rails from a crash.

 

[Echo]

Thanks for posting the pics. Can you explain how the rails are sealed against Snowshoe and Mt Snow type conditions?

Discussed in the other thread...

 

[buildyourown]

Mills and lathes use a completely different design. The Yeti has rollers on rails. Machine tools ahve gibs on ways. Ways are either dovetail or box in shape and gibs are matching in shape with a tapered piece that can be adjusted in and out to take up slack and compensate for wear. You can't take out all the slack with out it being tight. It is also constantly running on a film of lightly pressurized way lube. The wipers act to keep the lube in and the chips/coolant out.

I would be very curious to see how yeti has solved this problem. The rail design isn't new. Executing is. I suspect the custom rollers are the key. Something about the shape that means they never need adjustment.

 

[partsbara]

My biggest concern is bent rails from a crash.

amen........................................

 

[Echo]

My biggest concern is bent rails from a crash.

What makes you think these bike parts would be more likely to bend/break in a crash than any other bike's parts? They are made out of stainless, if anything it would seem they are less likely to be damaged in a crash.

 

[Instigator]

My biggest concern is bent rails from a crash.

The guide rails are made out of stainless and are very strong. I use these type of rail/bearing block parts on some fixture I build at work for manual and automatted assembly machines. They are quite stout and I believe plenty strong for this application.

 

[Westy]

Mills and lathes use a completely different design. The Yeti has rollers on rails. Machine tools ahve gibs on ways. Ways are either dovetail or box in shape and gibs are matching in shape with a tapered piece that can be adjusted in and out to take up slack and compensate for wear. You can't take out all the slack with out it being tight. It is also constantly running on a film of lightly pressurized way lube. The wipers act to keep the lube in and the chips/coolant out.

I would be very curious to see how yeti has solved this problem. The rail design isn't new. Executing is. I suspect the custom rollers are the key. Something about the shape that means they never need adjustment.

I think the other thread was refering to linear motion guides. But it matters not. Yeti went with more of a cam follower type design, of which I am interested in how they are going to protect it from mud, especially stopping mud from getting in the rails and limiting travel.

 

[Westy]

The guide rails are made out of stainless and are very strong. I use these type of rail/bearing block parts on some fixture I build at work for manual and automatted assembly machines. They are quite stout and I believe plenty strong for this application.

They are probably very easy to replace if there is damage.

 

[Damn True]

This is facinating.
Does the shade of gray scale in the drawing tell you guys the color as well?

 

[Westy]

This is facinating.
Does the shade of gray scale in the drawing tell you guys the color as well?

The shading does show that you can bite me.

 

[zedro]

heres a projection of the axle path. I took co-ordinates of a photoshop program and plugged them into a parametric Catia model. Of course i'm not gonna get the precision, but it can give an idea. Gonna try and setup a gif animation

Edit: just to add, the CC of the axle path is somewhere along the front fork axis, like around the half travel mark. I dont think you can get such a light axle path curvature using a standard linkage system

 

[zedro]

more, heres the projected CC (the yellow circle) and ICs at each tenth of the travel (red points).

what i find funny, is going by the classic Lawill Marketing Handbook, this appears to be more "Lawill" than the Lawill was.

 

[leprechaun]

yup zed-few paid attention to the numbers i posted.he told me exactly what it did.Goes back 4 mm.then foreward 13.They say it goes rearward for 6",then forewared,but that's from the bb. According to the graph i tried to burn into my brain with coffee it goes rearward about 100mm where it is 4 mm back from vertical then starts to curve foreward til 150mm travelwhere it meets verticel again(the starting point at zerotravel)then curves foreward at a faster rate til it reaches 230mm,13mm foreward from vertical.
I too believe that this cannot be done with links,in can be closely done,but rails were chosen to do EXACTLY what they want.Can you say perfectionist?

 

[UiUiUiUi]

ok i got this wrong when i read the first post about this.
what do they want to achieve with that kind of axlepath?

and why is this axlepath supposed to be worth using those rails?

 

[Kornphlake]

Since when is generic stainless strong? I can bend a dinner fork with 4 fingers and they're stainless. I'm not saying that stainless can't be strong, I'm just saying being stainless doesn't inherently make anything strong. I really do think Yeti's done their homework on this one, and it certainly is interesting looking, their marketing guys may be a little out of the loop on the techinical side though.

 

[leprechaun]

The idea is to have an axle path rearward enough to help eat bumps but not so much that it gives noticeable pedal feedback.And then curve foreward late in the travel to keep the wheelbase(and chain) from lengthening too much.
Stainless is used because it is being used as a bearing race.It should be strong enough for the short,and wide part being used as the main rail.The top rail is long and skinny but acts more as a guide.They mentioned a new type of titanium possibly being available with some kind of treatment done to it for surface hardness.

 

[Renegade]

Since when is generic stainless strong? I can bend a dinner fork with 4 fingers and they're stainless. I'm not saying that stainless can't be strong, I'm just saying being stainless doesn't inherently make anything strong. I really do think Yeti's done their homework on this one, and it certainly is interesting looking, their marketing guys may be a little out of the loop on the techinical side though.

Did I miss something? First of all, there's no such thing as "generic stainless". There are many stainless steels, some of which can be easily hardened to 40 'ish on the rockwell C scale. Linear bearings usually use steel hardened to 58 to 62 on the C scale. I strongly doubt that they will use dinner cutlery grade poop metal for this purpose.

 

[Lexx D]

I strongly doubt that they will use dinner cutlery grade poop metal for this purpose.

I read they are going to melt down forks to keep cost below a demo 9.

 

[zedro]

and why is this axlepath supposed to be worth using those rails?

this is where i have a problem with overly complex designs in general, to me theres a point where practicality should outweight any performance gain. Sometimes people get too focused on numbers and loose sight on the bigger picture.

The whole rail thing would freak me out too much to contemplate investing in. If i really needed a linear member, i would of looked into strut type mechanisms, something that could appear to take some damage but still operate fairly normally.

 

[dw]

more, heres the projected CC (the yellow circle) and ICs at each tenth of the travel (red points).

what i find funny, is going by the classic Lawill Marketing Handbook, this appears to be more "Lawill" than the Lawill was.

So the CC does not move at all in your model Zedro?

 

[-BB-]

What happens if something (like a small piece of gravel) gets wedged inbetween the rails and rollers?

 

[wirly]

What happens if something (like a small piece of gravel) gets wedged inbetween the rails and rollers?

You get a hardtail. :devil:

 

[Acadian]

What happens if something (like a small piece of gravel) gets wedged inbetween the rails and rollers?

gravel or some sort of fabric - like riding shorts!!

 

[go-ride.com]

What happens if something (like a small piece of gravel) gets wedged inbetween the rails and rollers?

I'll be interested to see how the self cleaning rail/bearing interface works, but I don't think that a small piece of gravel is any more likely to get caught in a Yeti 303 rail as it is to in any other multi-linkage bike.

 

[zedro]

So the CC does not move at all in your model Zedro?

no it does, i just 'best fit' a radius curve for simplicity, since the actual path deviated very little at the axle.

Below shows the CC points between paired intervals, how the CC moves fowards in an arc. The radii is relatively pretty large so the actual deviation at the axle is fairly small despite the noticible CC movement.

Not making any assumptions either, just painting a basic picture.

On a side note, one time trying to get such a large CC radius, i needed to use a VPP style linkage arrangement with a rediculous linkage and swingarm arrangment, something i wouldn't even consider for a second.

 

[shock]

gravel or some sort of fabric - like riding shorts!!

Ouch!!!! Would that then be a ball bearing?

Sorry, just had to

 

[Slacker]

It's a cute design, but no thanks. I think I'll be hanging onto my

 

[Sandwich]

Damn, i was hoping for big things....this is....not impressive?

Yeah, yeti is using rails instead of links, but to be honest, it seems to me that a rail has a lot more possibility for damage and therefore wear. What if it gets nicked or dented? You now have a flat spot in your travel, with the possibility that the whole rear end will wobble when it hits that spot. I'm sure yeti has tested it and all that BS, but what happens when the stupid chair lift attendant stacks your bike on top of another....BLAM, 2899 down the toilet.

Maybe the rails are replaceable...but who cars? Pivots and bearings have a lot less possibility for critical failure. All in all, it looks like the bike will ride like a single pivot (it goes back and then forwards...in an ARC? Holy crap). So why bother with parts that pose greater possibilty of wear?

I miss the lawill. Maybe the patent is up for grabs.

 

[bizutch]

the tuning option thing reminds me of when the M1 used to have 2 different wheelbase lengths, 3 BB heights and 3 leverage ratio adjustments. Steber said every race there was a bunch of "Tards" with some goofball setup that was not even useful. So finally he did away with all the extra adjustments so people wouldn't mess up the bike's ride.

I'm always a negative nancy...but seriously....adjustable plates to change the ride...then strap that to a stable platform shock with 3-6 adjustment knobs. 80-85% of the guys will be riding a bike that isn't setup right.

I applaud the new thinking...but my first thought was the same as Acadian. Looks like one big giant set of clothes mincing, Edward Scissorhands, Roncomatic short dicers.

But when Spoke80 or Profro break down and buy it, I'll be the first the drool on it....like so....

 

[dump]

internet forums are great for building hype

the concept is intriguing, it'll be interesting to see how effective it is in real life.

- dump

 

[WheelieMan]

James, do you have any info on the 05 ASX that you can give me? Will there be any changes?

 

[neversummersnow]

I know they've had working protos since mid July or earlier but none of their factory team has really been on the bike. It's almost a new trend in the industry to develop something and just "release" it.

AKA M3, new V10 etc.

 

[Dogboy]

From his original post it sounds like Krispy rode the bike. He didn't come back with his clothes mangled

 

[Acadian]

I know they've had working protos since mid July or earlier but none of their factory team has really been on the bike. It's almost a new trend in the industry to develop something and just "release" it.

AKA M3, new V10 etc.

and let the consumers do all the R&D :nuts: