[Sandwich]

Would anyone be talking about yeti if they rolled out another Lawill bike?
.

yes, if yeti re-released the dh6, i would poop my pants and post pictures of the dingleberries on the interweb. The lawill design is solid. The dh9 was long and heavy. They should have refined it, IMO. The dh6 weighed 9.5 lbs, pedalled better then any bike i have ridden, and had a smooth suspension feel even with the RS pullshock. I have contacted FTW in regards to building a 5-6-7" travel push-shock lawill bike. (he said he'd build three protos for 5800, I think, anyone interested?)

Anyways, two things. 1, where is the seat tube? 2, my biggest concern with this bike is lateral stiffness. It's held to the main frame by those two rods, right? So they have to be very strong. In this case, strong might mean heavy.

Thing 3, is the lawill patent up for grabs, or is yeti going to sit on it?

 

[punkassean]

Why dont companies focus on refining and strenghtening existing bikes, that i dont understand.

You mean like Kona or Specialized?

 

[YETI187]

the frame design looks nice

on the mud issue, some possible solutions:
-put wipers on the swing link beofre the bearings to wipe off the big pieces of grit
-a full plstic shield of the front triangle and it's moving parts. designing it around the linkage above the bb is kinda hard to think of cause the pictures. i think it may be a problem fitting around the rear swinglink without it itting while moving through its travle.
- partial plastic shields to cover just the rollers and rails

note: not much thought has been put into these ideas, so don't whine about how stupid they are

another idea spawned from the design. replace the rollers andrails with shocks. a pull shock on the bottom and a compression shock in the front. the placement angles would have to be different though. the arc could be changed by the spring rate you use in the shocks


i can't wait to get out of highschool and into college and get to start applying these ideas into actual designs

 

[ohio]

the frame design looks nice

on the mud issue, some possible solutions:

Let's give Yeti a little credit. If there even IS a mud issue, I'm sure they're addressing it. If they ARE addressing it, I'm sure they've got a better idea of what will work than we do since we can't even really see the mechanism and they've been working on it for two years.

 

[ÆX]

i can't wait to get out of highschool and into college and get to start applying these ideas into actual designs

or just thinking them through to know they are not feasable.

lol, keep thinking man.

 

[math2014]

You mean like Kona or Specialized?

Yes, and like Trek (77), Turner, Foes, etc....

I think one would appreciate more a frame using FSR, VPP, or any SP configuration, but where the extra work would be done on :

1. Better pivot points aka bearings and axles
2. Better FEA on the frame... less likely to be cracked etc.
3. Replacebale/Adjustable dropouts (77, Kingfisher,Scream)
4. Provision for the mud/dust protection of the Shock/Pivot (new V10)
5. Uber Durable paint finishes (Hard anodisation like CD Mavic rims)

Just my 2c.

 

[spoke80]

Yeti will be building these frames under their "special projects" banner meaning that only 100 or so will be built. THe 100 frames to be built will be individually numbered and the paint will comemorate their anniversary. So it is not like they are building 6000 of these things they are doing a limited run just like their 4x bike.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Yes, you can do things with rails that are not reasonably feasible or possible with pivots.

This bike, from Zedro's rough mapping appears to have a effective pivot far out ahead of the BB. If this is the case, AND that effective pivot is properly placed, you can achieve reduction in chain length, followed by growth... this is basically the VPP principle. I tried to do similar with a single pivot, and there was just no reasonable way to put the pivot where I wanted it, additionally, it would have had nasty kickback toward the end of it's stroke. You can avoid that with the rails with a curved rail that will move the effective pivot closer to the BB late in the travel.

Anyway, my e-pinion and e-prediction, is that this will perform similarly, although slightly more subtely, to a VPP. And it will brake slightly better. It'd be useful to see better pictures, especially from the non-drive side.

It is also my e-pinion, that the benefits aren't worth the trouble... and this is a misguided attempt to get around the VPP patents.

Ohio: am I right in thinking that you can plot the IC of the Yeti using lines perpendicular to the rails at the point where the roller things are (assuming the on the roller things are at that point, which they're *close* to)?

 

[thaflyinfatman]

or just thinking them through to know they are not feasable.

lol, keep thinking man.

I have nothing against you or your bikes, but I don't think it reflects very well on your professionalism to be bagging a bike that nobody's even ridden yet (other than a select few pros).

 

[ÆX]

I have nothing against you or your bikes, but I don't think it reflects very well on your professionalism to be bagging a bike that nobody's even ridden yet (other than a select few pros).

I WAS QUOTING YETI187!!!!!!!!

i can't wait to get out of highschool and into college and get to start applying these ideas into actual designs

or just thinking them through to know they are not feasable.

lol, keep thinking man.

 

[profro]

Given the quality of their existing line and their market credibility, Yeti should have continued to license technologies, IMO. Their expertise is in build quality and superb geometry, not suspension dynamics (unless they hired someone new).

I think you might be closer to the truth than you know. My understanding of this design is that it was not thought up at Yeti, but adapted from existing technology.

"Prototype by Indy"

 

[Sandwich]

Yeti will be building these frames under their "special projects" banner meaning that only 100 or so will be built. THe 100 frames to be built will be individually numbered and the paint will comemorate their anniversary. So it is not like they are building 6000 of these things they are doing a limited run just like their 4x bike.

just like manipoo did with their millenium? if it works...it'll sell.

 

[Threepointtwo]

Does anybody know about estimated production dates? Also, is it true that they have stopped production of the DH9?

 

[Jeremy R]

"Prototype by Indy"

Maybe they meant Indiana Jones.
They could have been sitting around one night baked, and saw those giant boulders rolling after him on rails and thought, "Hey, I bet we could like
build a suspension bike that worked on rails and it would give you a dope axle path.
If it works they can call it the Temple of Zoom.

I am looking foward to seeing this joker in person,
as my mind is to feeble to form an e-opinion on such new tech.

 

[OGRipper]

Everyone's got an opinion, that's one thing that makes RM so much fun.

I just don't agree that everyone should focus on refining existing designs. If all the bike companies ever did was refine existing designs, we would not have the rapid rate of technological development with which we've been blessed/cursed. The development curve for mountain bikes has been extremely steep. Look back 5 years, or 10, or 15. At any of those points in time the industry could have said, "Well, we're never going to come up with something better, so we should just refine what we've got." Basically, we'd all be riding super light, cheap, and strong...rigid bikes. Yeah, it would have proven Bontrager wrong, but would we be better off?

Instead, companies need to come up with new ideas now and then and THEN refine them. If the first iteration of the yeti rail-bike has a few issues (which remains to be seen), chances are good they will work on it and come up with something better.

As consumers we benefit from companies like yeti taking a shot at new ideas. If you don't like it, don't buy one, but technological development is all about taking risks, and ignoring the naysayers to focus on your vision.

Not directed at anyone in particular, just my $.02. Damn I wish I was in Vegas...

 

[Salami]

 

[OGRipper]

Sweet pics man. Still makes my head hurt just looking at it, but sweet pics.

 

[profro]

Does anybody know about estimated production dates? Also, is it true that they have stopped production of the DH9?

I have heard that production will be spring '05 and YES they have stopped production of the DH9.

 

[Trond]

Those rails must be made of steel, I wonder if they get rusty and/or noisy after the rollers have hammered the rails for a few months in mud and grime.

 

[Lumpy_Gravy]

It looks awesome

 

[Acadian]

Those rails must be made of steel, I wonder if they get rusty and/or noisy after the rollers have hammered the rails for a few months in mud and grime.

either

or

 

[Echo]

Thanks for the new pics Salami

 

[MMcG]

I want that AS-X with the Fox Air shock and the Fox 36 up front that is in the background of some of Salami's photos! That bike gives me instant wood!!

 

[math2014]

And i want a demo8 with 888R but this has nothing to do with yetis

 

[WSU DH'er]

From mammoth...

I think everyone, being all wrapped up in the Yeti discussion, has missed the pic of this dhx. Take a look at that reserve reservoir placement. Yeti may have a mud problem but turner has a much bigger one.... that just isn't gonna work....

 

[ohio]

Yeti may have a mud problem but turner has a much bigger one.... that just isn't gonna work....

Dude, by tying the inertial valving directly to the crank arm you get perfect increased compression damping at exactly the right moment in your pedalling stroke, thus resulting in bob-free pedalling!

 

[OGRipper]

Bwahahahahaha!

No. It's the new VSRMS: Virtual Shock Resevoir Mounting Standard.

Try to keep up.

 

[Full Trucker]

"Prototype by Indy"

Alright, I've kept my MOUF shut for long enough, and I'm not gonna flame anyone beacuse this thread is HILARIOUS! But, I wanted to answer a few questions that a recent visit to the factory uncovered:

Everyone at Yeti has a nickname. "Indy" happens to be the welder-guy, so named because he moved here from Indianapolis, Indiana. His job before welding Yetis? Fabricating Formula racecars. Nice guy, loves cyclocross. No sh!t, Chet, no sh!t. So, prototype, welded and fabricated by Indy. In Golden. OK, you get it, sorry.

Goal for production 303's is to have them available March-ish. Now I am under the impression that they will be PRODUCTION bikes, not Special Projects. Time will tell, I forgot to ask. I'm pretty sure they'll let me buy one though...

Not sure what the rails are made of, but the color reminded me of... well... "not steel"? Maybe magnesium or something, again I forget to ask.

DH9 are for the time being GONE. Again, I think the 303 is going to be the production Yeti DH bike. I mean, Yeti didn't even have any DH9's left to send to Interbike, they had to borrow mine (which is why I was at the factory). Now, why would they want DH9's going to Interbike? Because they were unable to finish all five prototype 303's that were SUPPOSED to have Fox DH40 forks put on them for the dirt demo. Well, I guess (this is only a guess) that Fox still wanted to use Yeti's to demo the new DH fork on, so BAM! Send in the DH9 reinforcements. So if anyone went to the dirt demo and road a turquoise DH9 with a Fox ProPedal Vanilla thingy on it, it might have been mine. I hope you were nice to her!

And I am SOOOOO waiting for the new dw-designed VSRMS on the 2011 Ironhorse line... word!

 

[Curb Hucker]

Not sure what the rails are made of, but the color reminded me of... well... "not steel"? Maybe magnesium or something, again I forget to ask.

no way theyre magnesium. Optimum material would be a good grade of stainless

 

[Full Trucker]

Optimum material would be a good grade of seedless

I couldn't agree more!

 

[Salami]

Thanks for the new pics Salami

Thank Downfall Productions, they took them. I just borrowed them from another site for your viewing pleasure.

 

[thaflyinfatman]

I WAS QUOTING YETI187!!!!!!!!




or just thinking them through to know they are not feasable.

lol, keep thinking man.

OK SORRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111

 

[profro]

So, prototype, welded and fabricated by Indy. In Golden. OK, you get it, sorry.

Close to what I heard. I heard that someone from a forumula car background designed the suspension. I assumed it was an engineer, but heck some of the best engineer's I know have never been officially trained as engineers. I still think its rad and can't wait to ride one.

 

[Instigator]

Full trucker thanks for the info!

Everyone else thanks for the entertainment, this thread is great

I am still to figure out if I want to spend that kind of cash for just a frame or get a complete IH Sunday for probably two thirds the cost

 

[MikeD]

the frame design looks nice

on the mud issue, some possible solutions:
-put wipers on the swing link beofre the bearings to wipe off the big pieces of grit
-a full plstic shield of the front triangle and it's moving parts. designing it around the linkage above the bb is kinda hard to think of cause the pictures. i think it may be a problem fitting around the rear swinglink without it itting while moving through its travle.
- partial plastic shields to cover just the rollers and rails

"Hey, is that the new CBR600?"

"Nah, man, it's my DH bike!"

 

[Sandwich]

you know, the more pictures I see, the more I like it. It looks like it should be pretty solid, after seeing it in e-real life.

That fox fork reminds me of the old k2 Noleen fork found on their higher-level DH bike. Either that or a zzyzx, if you want to get extreme.

I still wish they didn't abandon the lawill

 

[go-ride.com]

I don't disagree with anything your saying (except maybe that anyone could have come up with it). When I saw the designs I also discounted it as too compex and problematic (I think most people would have said that about most of your protos), but no one can do anything but speculate about the viability of an idea ... until you build one. Props you both you and Yeti for going the distance.

The mistake I think they are making is claiming to be REPLACING the DH-9 (a great bike) with this WAY unproven design. Tha just seems incredibly premature and maybe a bit arrogant. But maybe I'm wrong. I guess we'll all find out together.

I had a chance to ride the 303 (proto-type) and DH9, back to back, for 2 days and found the 303 to be a much better ride. Better pedaling, bump absorption, braking and cornering. All around a superior bike to the DH9. This was a proto-type that had the same wheel path, but achieved it with a slightly different system than what was displayed at Interbike. At this point I think Yeti is 95% of the way there and just needs to work out some small tolerances. As far as mud, well, I have some concerns there too, but doubt it will even need a boot.

 

[wirly]

I had a chance to ride the 303 (proto-type) and DH9, back to back, for 2 days and found the 303 to be a much better ride. Better pedaling, bump absorption, braking and cornering. All around a superior bike to the DH9. This was a proto-type that had the same wheel path, but achieved it with a slightly different system than what was displayed at Interbike. At this point I think Yeti is 95% of the way there and just needs to work out some small tolerances. As far as mud, well, I have some concerns there too, but doubt it will even need a boot.

Wow, glowing review! I'm stoked to hear your impressions, and I hope any mud or durability issues are either moot or resolveable.

 

[Instigator]

Scott(go-ride.com) thanks for the info.

I have faith that yeti will come through and have a great new DH frame to brag about for years to come.