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Newz: Texas University Shuts Down Bake Sale

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Texas University Shuts Down Bake Sale
By Associated Press
September 24, 2003, 11:17 PM EDT


DALLAS -- Southern Methodist University shut down a bake sale Wednesday in which cookies were offered for sale at different prices, depending on the buyer's race or gender.

The sale was organized by the Young Conservatives of Texas, who said it was intended as a protest of affirmative action.

A sign said white males had to pay $1 for a cookie. The price was 75 cents for white women, 50 cents for Hispanics and 25 cents for blacks.

Members of the conservative group said they meant no offense and were only trying to protest the use of race or gender as a factor in college admissions.

Similar sales have been held by College Republican chapters at colleges in at least five other states since February.

A black student filed a complaint with SMU, saying the sale was offensive. SMU officials said they halted the event after 45 minutes because it created a potentially unsafe situation.

"This was not an issue about free speech," Tim Moore, director of the SMU student center, said in a story for Thursday's edition of The Dallas Morning News. "It was really an issue where we had a hostile environment being created."

The sale drew a crowd outside the student center and several students engaged in a shouting match, Moore said.

David C. Rushing, 23, a law student and chairman of Young Conservatives of Texas at SMU and for the state, said the event didn't get out of hand. At most, a dozen students gathered around the table of cookies and Rice Krispies treats, he said.

"We copied what's been done at multiple campuses around the country to illustrate our opinion of affirmative action and how we think it's unfair," he said.

Matt Houston, a 19-year-old sophomore, called the group's price list offensive.

"My reaction was disgust because of the ignorance of some SMU students," said Houston, who is black. "They were arguing that affirmative action was solely based on race. It's not based on race. It's based on bringing a diverse community to a certain organization."

The group sold three cookies during its protest, raising $1.50.

In June, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled universities could use race as a factor in admissions under limited conditions. In Texas, universities had been banned from using race as a factor under a 1996 decision by a lower court.
Copyright © 2003, The Associated Press
 

mr_dove

Monkey
Jan 18, 2002
179
0
Denver, CO
I think that their sale would fall under "freedom of speech" protection. Freedom of speech includes a freedom to protest.

It does sound like things "might" have been getting out of hand though.

I agree with their viewpoint (to some extent).
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,903
20,774
Sleazattle
Originally posted by mr_dove
I think that their sale would fall under "freedom of speech" protection. Freedom of speech includes a freedom to protest.
SMU officials said they halted the event after 45 minutes because it created a potentially unsafe situation.
Actually it would have been great if they did not stop it and those kids got the crap kicked out of them. I am no big fan of affirmative action, but look at the way they structured the prices and tell me if that would not piss some people off.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Originally posted by ummbikes
Yawn.

More white kids bitching they had to go to SMU instead of U. Texas.
Yeah no sh*t ummbikes, poor whitey's really doing it tough out there. Young Conservatives.......bwaaahahhaaaa, I bet those guys have got lots of mates:rolleyes: :D
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
0
North of Oz
Dumb idea on the part of the students holding the bakesale...but the US collegiate system has some seriously major flaws that I hope someday get fixed due to proper protesting and lobbying of local and federal governments.

When I applied to college, with a 4.0, high school varsity athlete, lead violin in orchestra, study team leader, and local volunteer, I'd also been to China and Japan as a representative from my city and graduated HS in both the US and Japan, but I did not qualify for most scholarships because I was white and considered to have been a priveleged student...what was a bigger pain was that my parents paid no money whatsoever towards my college degree because we were too poor for that too occur. Then I got one of the larger scholarships I had earned taken away from me because my daddy got a raise my sophomore year and I was given 2 weeks notice to come up with 10grand for that years tuition. :rolleyes:

Yeah....college is truly a fair and equal area for students to grow and learn.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
The ONLY way this could have been better is if minority students got federal funding for their purchases. :D
 

ummbikes

Don't mess with the Santas
Apr 16, 2002
1,794
0
Napavine, Warshington
Originally posted by LordOpie
The ONLY way this could have been better is if minority students got federal funding for their purchases. :D
They probably did in the form of their Pell Grants. Oh wait those are based on income not race...:devil:
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,903
20,774
Sleazattle
Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
When I applied to college, with a 4.0, high school varsity athlete, lead violin in orchestra, study team leader, and local volunteer, I'd also been to China and Japan as a representative from my city and graduated HS in both the US and Japan, but I did not qualify for most scholarships because I was white and considered to have been a priveleged student....
Actually it sounds like you were a privileged student. Your family may not have had a lot of money but it sounds like you had plenty of opportunities made available to you. There are a lot of kids who go to schools that cannot afford music programs or are not big enough to have a formal sports program. There are plenty of brilliant students who don't have the time to participate in after school activities and study because they either need to work long hours to help the family or take care of younger siblings while their parents work.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
0
North of Oz
Originally posted by Westy
Actually it sounds like you were a privileged student. Your family may not have had a lot of money but it sounds like you had plenty of opportunities made available to you. There are a lot of kids who go to schools that cannot afford music programs or are not big enough to have a formal sports program. There are plenty of brilliant students who don't have the time to participate in after school activities and study because they either need to work long hours to help the family or take care of younger siblings while their parents work.
Yeah - I was lucky in that I had a ton of opportunities prior to leaving for college - what I think has always stuck in my head was that nothing I did to make myself attractive to scholarships helped because I wasn't a minority of any kind. Sure - I got into every college I applied to...but I couldn't afford them, even with the huge amounts of financial aid I did earn.

My first two years of college I worked full-time jobs, in the summers between I would hold down two to three jobs to keep afloat and put cash in the bank. My last two years of HS I worked as much as I could to put money in the bank...
I know I know - wa wah poor me...but my point is mostly this...My degree is not yet done - and it's not for lack of working hard and being a good student, and it's not for lack of wanting it. It's for my inability to earn the right kind of scholarships to get me through the four years - every one I qualified for and then some I was turned down simply because of skin. It's not that I have a problem with ensuring all students have an opportunity to attend college, but it should be for all students. If you have a white student with a less wealthy family, they should have equal ability to earn a scholarship as a minority student and not be dismissed out of hand by sheer point of skin color or ethnic background.
Personally, I don't know why we still bother basing any of our judgement systems on color or ethnicity - it seems silly. If you have a student, any student who can prove that mommy and daddy can't and/or won't pay for them to attend then they should be given equal opportunity to advance themselves in the attendance of college.

I know my experiences have made me personally stronger, but I don't know that everyone should have to go through it.
 

LoboDelFuego

Monkey
Mar 5, 2002
193
0
I'm against affirmative action for a couple reasons, and I think the bake sale was a very good idea, showing how any policy that uses race a factor is inherently racist.

Why is the black kid complaining? He had the best deal!
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Originally posted by LoboDelFuego


Why is the black kid complaining? He had the best deal!
Sometimes the rolling eyes smilie just isn't enough...In Shirley's absence I'm appointing you acting "most clueless" on the board. You're a good chance to get the job full-time too;) :D
 

LoboDelFuego

Monkey
Mar 5, 2002
193
0
Originally posted by KFulch
That statement is ... damn well funny:D
That was the intent. I know why he was complaining.



















Its because he couldn't afford the .25

ok that was bad. sorry but I debated this topic over the summer so I have a million jokes and the humorous tension buildup is threatening my rib cage to burst.
 

LoboDelFuego

Monkey
Mar 5, 2002
193
0
Originally posted by Dog Welder
That is messed up. That you could "joke" about it is also messed up.
I don't think race is an issue in anything, so I tend to joke around with it. people don't notice the reactions they have and in many cases don't even know why they have them.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
0
North of Oz
When I was like 14 or so and one of the up and coming favorite troublemakers of the newspaper staff in school I spent two weeks running around school with crayola crayons. We figured out everyone's skin color based on crayola crayons...and then told everyone how silly the whole thing was...because most of us are so bloody similar that a simple slight pixelation difference means absolutely nothing.

Good article for a 14 year old if I must say so myself :) Pissed off anyone in school who felt the need to defend and promote their skin color as if it were some sort of badge of honor, rather than simply something that defined their appearance - like blue eyes, or grey hair.

Oh yeah...and in 5th grade I had this teacher who who had the entire class every month spend the entire month discriminating against a group of students based on eye color and/or gender so we'd all know what it felt like. There were only two blue eyed kids in the class, me and another girl...most miserable month I've ever had....
 

laura

DH_Laura
Jul 16, 2002
6,259
15
Glitter Gulch
Originally posted by LoboDelFuego
I don't think race is an issue in anything, so I tend to joke around with it.

that is a loadof bull****. if you think race isnt an issue, you havent been around long enough, or you havent been paying attention. i second the nomination for you to take the lead as the most clueless person on ride monkey. if you would for one minute stop acting like you know everything and just listen to people you might learn something.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
Originally posted by laura
that is a loadof bull****. if you think race isnt an issue, you havent been around long enough, or you havent been paying attention. i second the nomination for you to take the lead as the most clueless person on ride monkey. if you would for one minute stop acting like you know everything and just listen to people you might learn something.
I believe Lobo said, "He didn't think race is an issue with anything". Is he not intitled to what he thinks? Or does that run against the PC thought police rules?

I tend to agree, in my dealings with people, race either doesn't come to mind or is "last on the list".

So what if he cracked a joke about the black student "getting the best deal", what's wrong with that? Or by cracking that joke does that make him a racist? By laughing at that joke does that make me a racist? (according to the PC police)
 

TN

Hey baby, want a hot dog?
Jul 9, 2002
14,301
1,353
Jimtown, CO
Originally posted by Andyman_1970
So what if he cracked a joke about the black student "getting the best deal", what's wrong with that? Or by cracking that joke does that make him a racist? By laughing at that joke does that make me a racist? (according to the PC police)

i didnt say anything about the joke, i said something about his assumption that race is not an issue in anything. it may not be an issue with him but it is a huge issue and that is not an opinion.



-LAURA
 

LoboDelFuego

Monkey
Mar 5, 2002
193
0
The only reason you think racism is an issue is because people make it that way. Because you live in a society that is so poltically correct and scarred by slavery that it tries to avoid anything racist like the plague. But if everyone just shut the hell up and stopped defining an abuse against them as perpetrated by racial biases, it wouldnt be an issue at all.

This is the way it works.

Racism --(in the past led to)---> $ocio-economic gaps ----(which currently creates)--> problems like crime, poor education

The direct root of problems is economic, and most nations will realize this, but americans skip the link and say it is because of race, both from personal incentive and societal norms. So while it is fair to say that crime is caused by poverty, it is not ok to say that it is caused by racism. Race is only an issue if you insist on taking about it.

I don't care what you are, I will judge each person on a personal level. I will honestly tell you that I hate many of the kids in my school. They are imbeciles who cut class and lounge about in the halls. Some of them do drugs, others deal them, some are just idiots who respect nothing. I will also tell you that a large percentage of these kids are black or hispanic. (certainly more than their respective populations within the school) Their misbehavior and problems may be inherent, but I know that many relate directly to the economic issues.

What is important to realize is that unlike most of america, i don't skip the link. I don't care if the gap was created because 150 years ago these people were property or enemies or savages. I just care about the gap right now, and all the societal garbage that comes out of it. The river that carved the canyon dried up a long time ago. So stop trying to dam it. Start filling the space it left.

On a side note, racist jokes are a good thing. The laughter comes from the absurdity of the joke were it true. (same thing as the reason we laugh at slapstick is because we know the actor isnt really injured, or hurt badly)
 
K

knuckle salad

Guest
Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Yeah - I was lucky in that I had a ton of opportunities prior to leaving for college - what I think has always stuck in my head was that nothing I did to make myself attractive to scholarships helped because I wasn't a minority of any kind.
Did you only apply for scholarships designated for underprivileged? There are purely merit scholarships, scholarships for kids of alumni (e.g. Bush's ride thru Yale), athletic scholarships, scholarships for particular disciplines, for specific research fields, etc. Lots of folks get financial aid by virtue of things the college wants its student body to be like. But it's the minority kids with the "free ride" who always seem to take the criticism. Have a cookie, dude. ;)
 

ummbikes

Don't mess with the Santas
Apr 16, 2002
1,794
0
Napavine, Warshington
Originally posted by LoboDelFuego



Their misbehavior and problems may be inherent, but I know that many relate directly to the economic issues.

Sparky, do you think these kids who cut classes are doing so because of an inherent trait of their being African or Latino?

Help me understand your superior logic here I mean you debate and take AP classes so you have to have it going on in the smarts department...

Think carefully, this is a defining moment for you!
 

laura

DH_Laura
Jul 16, 2002
6,259
15
Glitter Gulch
Originally posted by LoboDelFuego
The only reason you think racism is an issue is because people make it that way. Because you live in a society that is so poltically correct and scarred by slavery that it tries to avoid anything racist like the plague. But if everyone just shut the hell up and stopped defining an abuse against them as perpetrated by racial biases, it wouldnt be an issue at all.

This is the way it works.

Racism --(in the past led to)---> $ocio-economic gaps ----(which currently creates)--> problems like crime, poor education

The direct root of problems is economic, and most nations will realize this, but americans skip the link and say it is because of race, both from personal incentive and societal norms. So while it is fair to say that crime is caused by poverty, it is not ok to say that it is caused by racism. Race is only an issue if you insist on taking about it.

I don't care what you are, I will judge each person on a personal level. I will honestly tell you that I hate many of the kids in my school. They are imbeciles who cut class and lounge about in the halls. Some of them do drugs, others deal them, some are just idiots who respect nothing. I will also tell you that a large percentage of these kids are black or hispanic. (certainly more than their respective populations within the school) Their misbehavior and problems may be inherent, but I know that many relate directly to the economic issues.

What is important to realize is that unlike most of america, i don't skip the link. I don't care if the gap was created because 150 years ago these people were property or enemies or savages. I just care about the gap right now, and all the societal garbage that comes out of it. The river that carved the canyon dried up a long time ago. So stop trying to dam it. Start filling the space it left.

On a side note, racist jokes are a good thing. The laughter comes from the absurdity of the joke were it true. (same thing as the reason we laugh at slapstick is because we know the actor isnt really injured, or hurt badly)

i have no clue what you are talking about. i never connected race to crime or racism to crime or whatever you are trying to say. what i am saying is, racism is alive and well and as long as we are discriminating against people because of the color of their skin, we have major problems as a society. and it is a very big issue in itself, even is you leave out the problems of poverty and crime.
 

LoboDelFuego

Monkey
Mar 5, 2002
193
0
Originally posted by ummbikes
Sparky, do you think these kids who cut classes are doing so because of an inherent trait of their being African or Latino?

Help me understand your superior logic here I mean you debate and take AP classes so you have to have it going on in the smarts department...

Think carefully, this is a defining moment for you!
tio, why you callin me sparky???

No i meant inherent in their individual being. What I was trying to say is that some people might be bad regardless(nature), but living in poverty and being trampled on by the haves of society tends to turn people toward crime(nurture).

In response to what laura says under you, the main display of "racism" is usually claimed in response to the law or witin the law. These claims come from some sort of harm or negligence, ie crime.
 

ummbikes

Don't mess with the Santas
Apr 16, 2002
1,794
0
Napavine, Warshington
Originally posted by LoboDelFuego
tio, why you callin me sparky???

Ahh mijo, it's what we old dudes call you youngsters...


Your point:
Originally posted by LoboDelFuego

No i meant inherent in their individual being. What I was trying to say is that some people might be bad regardless(nature),
What am asking is if you feel Africans and Latinos are predisposed to act out in a "bad" manner. If by "individual being" you mean a person regardless of race who may be prone to misdemeanor thats one thing, but if you mean all Blacks and Mexicans or Irish are prone to crime thats another issue all together.

Originally posted by LoboDelFuego

but living in poverty and being trampled on by the haves of society tends to turn people toward crime(nurture).

The point you are making here is one many have made to support a pro-affimative action stance. There is a strong link between poverty and race in America.

The minority groups in this country have made great strides in gaining access to education and the increased earning potential an education can bring but still face a working world that is still mostly white and that is feeling slighted because of an impression that minority applicants have had an easier path to their education. So despite gaining an education that is equal to any whites education many minoritys are still looked at as less desirable than an equally educated white applicant.

The issue of racism is different than 50 years ago but I still hold that it is still an issue worth exploring and improving upon.
 

crashing_sux

Monkey
Jul 17, 2002
311
0
Vancouver, WA
[QUOTE
The group sold three cookies during its protest, raising $1.50.

[/QUOTE]

So what do you guys think?

1. One white guy and two black people.
2. A white woman, a hispanic person and a black person.
3. Three hispanic people.

None of those sound like viable options to me, I think they just reported it wrong and it was actually two cookies sold for $1.50.

I'm thinking most black and hispanic people I know would be too offended to buy the cookies, the white men I know wouldn't agree to paying a higher price just because they were white, and most of the women I know would say "Oh my god, those cookies are 25 cents off!".

Your thoughts?
 

laura

DH_Laura
Jul 16, 2002
6,259
15
Glitter Gulch
Originally posted by crashing_sux
[QUOTE
The group sold three cookies during its protest, raising $1.50.



So what do you guys think?

1. One white guy and two black people.
2. A white woman, a hispanic person and a black person.
3. Three hispanic people.

None of those sound like viable options to me, I think they just reported it wrong and it was actually two cookies sold for $1.50.

I'm thinking most black and hispanic people I know would be too offended to buy the cookies, the white men I know wouldn't agree to paying a higher price just because they were white, and most of the women I know would say "Oh my god, those cookies are 25 cents off!".

Your thoughts?
[/QUOTE]


the people selling the cookies probably got hungry and bought em.
 

LoboDelFuego

Monkey
Mar 5, 2002
193
0
Originally posted by ummbikes


a person regardless of race who may be prone to misdemeanor
yeah thats what I meant

Originally posted by ummbikes

The point you are making here is one many have made to support a pro-affimative action stance. There is a strong link between poverty and race in America.
The minority groups in this country have made great strides in gaining access to education and the increased earning potential an education can bring but still face a working world that is still mostly white and that is feeling slighted because of an impression that minority applicants have had an easier path to their education. So despite gaining an education that is equal to any whites education many minoritys are still looked at as less desirable than an equally educated white applicant.
The issue of racism is different than 50 years ago but I still hold that it is still an issue worth exploring and improving upon.
OK, so what I am saying is that we shouldn't be dwelling on the racial factors, since we all know and agree that people are equal and should be treated equally. Therefore we see that the problem is economic. You don't have to tie it back to race(even though it is possible to do so), theres no point, all it does is antagonize society and perpetuate stereotypes.

"Minority groups" should be people who are at a socioeconomic or political diasadvantage, or simply whose numbers are fewer, not races, which can span these economic boundaries and social strata.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
25
SF, CA
Originally posted by LoboDelFuego
blah blah blah

savages

blah blah blah
sweet jesus. I hope you get into one of those Ivy League schools you're applying to. You are in sore need of an education.

Aptitude without knowledge is a dangerous thing.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
25
SF, CA
Originally posted by LoboDelFuego
we all know and agree that people are equal and should be treated equally.
And therein lies the fault in your argument. "We" on this board (to the best of my knowledge) agree on that point, but far from all people do.

Additionally, it has been shown that even those people that don't show themselves to have racist tendencies through Q&A methods, still have a neuro-response of fear when shown the face of someone of another race (this includes minorities being shown white faces).
 

LoboDelFuego

Monkey
Mar 5, 2002
193
0
Originally posted by ohio
(in response to "blah blah blah savages blah blah blah")
sweet jesus. I hope you get into one of those Ivy League schools you're applying to. You are in sore need of an education.
Aptitude without knowledge is a dangerous thing.
I have seen many texts from the past refer to native americans and black africans as savages. My usage of the word was there to show a contrast. Glad you picked up on it, but whats the problem?

"And therein lies the fault in your argument. "We" on this board (to the best of my knowledge) agree on that point, but far from all people do."

It doesnt matter to my argument, my point is that racism only exists in the minds of certain individuals (yourself, and others), and does not exist on a massive conspiratorial society-wide level.

The neuro-response to races: Ok well that sucks. too bad that that is innate within us. So is neural-response to tigers, (both sabertoothed and bengal) pictures of wounds and discolored landscapes. I also have a certain neuro-response to hot girls, it doesn't mean I act on it or make it a major social issue.
And therein lies the fault in your argument. "We" on this board (to the best of my knowledge) agree on that point, but far from all people do.