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Nicolai frames...worth the hard earned cash?

TurnerDHRider

Monkey
Jul 5, 2004
127
0
Sydney, Australia
i just stumbled along the nicolai website couple of hours ago...and i have never liked their looks before..so you know..never gave it a though...but the 2006 range is very eye catching..i am totally inlove with the Nucleon TST...its just beautiful...but..its freaking nearly 9500 Aussie dollars...thats like..i dont know how much it is in US..its double the price of my Sunday frame...but its just so so beautiful...but why does it cost an arm and a leg..and my head..and my motorbikes and my car and..u know where i am heading...is it becasue of the build quality? the exclusivity? the small sized company? G-Boxx? i mean..doesnt cost that much does it..double the price of my sunday frame...like wow...but eyah...i am just inlove...i mean..i can get that bloody frame if i sell my sunday and my morewood...its gettable..but is it worth it? or should i brainwash myself..and look for another ride for the 07 season?

KC
 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
Not worth it IMO if you already have a Sunday. Both good bikes, but not worth dumping loads of cash to get the other.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
The TST weighs a tonne. Do yourself a favour and keep the sunday. It's lower, slacker, lighter, and racier.

If you're the small asian guy on a yellow sunday (I think I saw you at coffs) - then the TST would be what you'd get if you figured out the perfect frame for you and proceeded to find the exact inverse of that

Ignore that if it's not you, but my comments about the two frames compared still stand!
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,346
190
Vancouver
They're expensive for a few reasons: There is a lot of 'detail' on the frame that you might not find on other frames (intricate machining, welding...etc), the TST has the g-boxx in the frame so of course that will crank up the price tag. And, they probably don't make as many frames compared to other frame manufacturers. There are a few parts that you can't find at a 'local' shop...like that reverse rear hub. The frame will weigh more because of the gear hub built into the frame. I think the weight of that g-boxx gear system is heavier than a traditional crankset/cassette/derailleur BUT, it's all located at the bottom bracket which puts the center of gravity damn low.

If I had the money and wouldn't feel guilty about spending that much cash, I'd do it. Otherwise I think I would look at something else.

The TST 'evo' looks nice and light.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,346
190
Vancouver
LOL... here are the prices:

-regular TST: 5,590eu, $7,004usd
-TST evo: 6,035eu, $7,561usd

You get your rear frame, hub, shock, special crankset and shifter. I believe this price includes custom geometry... not too sure about that though.
 

DHS

Friendly Neighborhood Pool Boy
Apr 23, 2002
5,094
0
Sand, CA
well they are made to order.. so custom could be in there. probably matters just how custom you want to get.

i had a custom nicolai once.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,193
media blackout
I've also heard discussions about their frames (among some framebuilder friends of mine) that they put LOTS of time into design and analysis of a design (moreso than any other company) before they even touch any actual metal. The end result is that every single structural element on their frames is placed and shaped precisely such that there is nothing unnecessary on the bike. ChrisRobin can you confirm or refute this? You seem to be knowledgable on the bikes. Either way they are beautiful bikes. I've ridden a friends Nucleon and its one of the top 3 dh bikes I've ever been on.
 

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
2,936
1
Santiago du Chili
jonKranked said:
I've also heard discussions about their frames (among some framebuilder friends of mine) that they put LOTS of time into design and analysis of a design (moreso than any other company) before they even touch any actual metal. The end result is that every single structural element on their frames is placed and shaped precisely such that there is nothing unnecessary on the bike. ChrisRobin can you confirm or refute this? You seem to be knowledgable on the bikes. Either way they are beautiful bikes. I've ridden a friends Nucleon and its one of the top 3 dh bikes I've ever been on.

if that were so, and if that extra time and resources spent actually was well spent, then it would mean nicolai should be pushing the strength to weight envelope.
certainly their frames are not light, so that whould mean theyd have to be god damn near indesctuctable, is this so?
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,032
5,925
borcester rhymes
You could get a Lahar for that...with a "gearbox". And it's light....they might put extra design effort, but I highly doubt that there's no extra metal. They have several bikes that have an excess of linkages, gussets and CNCed bits.

I've said it before and I'll say it again,

SPEED HOLES.

The speed hole to aluminum ratio is so much higher on a Nicolai than on any other bike.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,346
190
Vancouver
jonKranked said:
I've also heard discussions about their frames (among some framebuilder friends of mine) that they put LOTS of time into design and analysis of a design (moreso than any other company) before they even touch any actual metal. The end result is that every single structural element on their frames is placed and shaped precisely such that there is nothing unnecessary on the bike. ChrisRobin can you confirm or refute this? You seem to be knowledgable on the bikes. Either way they are beautiful bikes. I've ridden a friends Nucleon and its one of the top 3 dh bikes I've ever been on.
I don't know what their build process is like but I assume what you're saying is true: they must put a lot of time into fabrication. I'm thinking they're trying to put less bells and whistles on the frames today in order to keep the weight competitive with other manufacturers. I'm saying this based on looking at my 2003 Nucleon ST. I think back then they wanted to make the most adjustable, strong DH bikes around; they just weighed a hell of a lot!
 

w00dy

In heaven there is no beer
Jun 18, 2004
3,417
51
that's why we drink it here
jonKranked said:
...there is nothing unnecessary on the bike.
I was about to laugh at you for this comment, but the evo version is actually pretty svelte. The original Nucleon TST looks like they just started throwing metal on there to make it look cool. I've never seen so many speed holes.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,346
190
Vancouver
Vitox... yeah you're right, they 'should' be indestructable. I've never heard of someone breaking one although they're not as common. Maybe someone from the bike industry in Europe would have a better idea since they're more common there.

Sandwich... The Lahar is cool and everything but it still has that Rohloff hub in the frame. The crappy thing about that is you HAVE to have a rear hub with the best engagement as possible. The Rohloff hub has a bit of a ****ty engagement and then you have to deal with the engagement of the rear hub. If you're not racing, it's no big deal but if you are, that might be something that you don't want. The g-boxx bikes (like the new GT bike as well) have those 'direct' drive hubs that don't have freehubs.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,346
190
Vancouver
w00dy said:
I was about to laugh at you for this comment, but the evo version is actually pretty svelte. The original Nucleon TST looks like they just started throwing metal on there to make it look cool. I've never seen so many speed holes.
Well that's it, any other Nicolai frame has extra **** you don't need on it but the TST evo looks like the best answer to light(ish) weight with a gearhub with lots of travel.
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
ChrisRobin said:
Sandwich... The Lahar is cool and everything but it still has that Rohloff hub in the frame. The crappy thing about that is you HAVE to have a rear hub with the best engagement as possible. The Rohloff hub has a bit of a ****ty engagement and then you have to deal with the engagement of the rear hub. If you're not racing, it's no big deal but if you are, that might be something that you don't want. The g-boxx bikes (like the new GT bike as well) have those 'direct' drive hubs that don't have freehubs.
huh. never really thought of that before. i imagine your nucleon has pretty similar engagement characteristics - is it fairly noticeable?
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,346
190
Vancouver
xy9ine said:
huh. never really thought of that before. i imagine your nucleon has pretty similar engagement characteristics - is it fairly noticeable?

Sort of... if I'm looking for that slop, I notice it right away. I don't race so I don't really care if my pedal strides and gearing isn't perfect. A dude at www.downcycles.com did a review on it and that's one of the things that pissed him off: http://www.downcycles.com/techtips_NucleonST.htm

I'm assuming the Lahar will be similar depending on what kind of rear hub they're using.

I actually toyed with the idea of somehow locking out the rear hub and only depending on the Rohloff hub. When it comes to chain tracking and keeping things from chewing themselves apart, it's too tricky.
 

benno

Monkey
Apr 7, 2006
201
0
What are people's opinion's on the suspension on these things?

The G-Boxx is cool and all, but it restricts the pivot location to a few inches above and slightly behind the BB.... Doesn't really seem ideal in my probably misinformed opinion.
 

xy9ine

Turbo Monkey
Mar 22, 2004
2,940
353
vancouver eastside
ChrisRobin said:
Sort of... if I'm looking for that slop, I notice it right away. I don't race so I don't really care if my pedal strides and gearing isn't perfect. A dude at www.downcycles.com did a review on it and that's one of the things that pissed him off: http://www.downcycles.com/techtips_NucleonST.htm

I'm assuming the Lahar will be similar depending on what kind of rear hub they're using.

I actually toyed with the idea of somehow locking out the rear hub and only depending on the Rohloff hub. When it comes to chain tracking and keeping things from chewing themselves apart, it's too tricky.
neat review! that nucleon looks like one i almost bought on ebay a while back. the lahar uses a standard bmx freewheel on a custom (carbon) 0-dish hub. most bmx freewheels are crap, but white industries makes a very nice 72 point unit.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,346
190
Vancouver
xy9ine said:
neat review! that nucleon looks like one i almost bought on ebay a while back. the lahar uses a standard bmx freewheel on a custom (carbon) 0-dish hub. most bmx freewheels are crap, but white industries makes a very nice 72 point unit.
I know which one you're talking about... but I think it was a 2002 or a very early 2003. The plates holding the Rohloff hub weren't all fancy like they were on the regular 2003 frames (or like in the pics from that review). It had an avy shock and it was all matte black right? Really nice looking.
 

boone

Monkey
Jun 27, 2005
362
0
I really love mine!!! It's the helius FR.
Attention to detail is amazing. Every little thing covered, and then covered again. Super lateral rigidity, smooth suspension, adjustability...what more could you want.

It is not one of their huge DH bikes though.
Only one I would really consider for DH is the tst evo 5 for. The rest of them are pretty heavy. IMO, there are a lot of really nice race bikes for less money that "should" perform similarly if not better. Just because they got a gear box and cost a bizzilion dollars doesn't make them great.

Now a lighter one with a good eye on susp. design AND a gear box and interal hub...now whether that one is worth the money should be the next question!

This is what I have....It rocks!!!
 

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,552
77
teedotohdot
That red UFO ST is a hot bike. Been playing on my friends for a bit now so if your not loaded that might be something to try out.
 

DHCorky

Monkey
Aug 5, 2003
514
0
Headed to the lift...
Nicolai pays very close attention to the details when building their bikes as Chris pointed out. Each frame carries a five year(even under race conditions) warranty. The warranty is linked to the frame so if you buy one second hand and have the original invoice the frame still has a warranty.

I am in love with the TST Evo. The price is steep, but one thing I see many people forgeting is that the frame has the drivetrain on it already and its included in the price. Makes the price a little easier to justify.
 

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
2,936
1
Santiago du Chili
that evo frame looks more like something with a future

which is probably more than can be said for the cranks, at least with that pivot location and that bb height i dont see them living long.

anyhow, its a huge step towards forwards IMO, hope people dont think that no speedholes=weaksauce.
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
796
Lima, Peru, Peru
ChrisRobin said:
LOL... here are the prices:

-regular TST: 5,590eu, $7,004usd
-TST evo: 6,035eu, $7,561usd

You get your rear frame, hub, shock, special crankset and shifter. I believe this price includes custom geometry... not too sure about that though.

holee sheet!!!!!:eek: :eek:

thats in the "my frame is jewerly" range...
you can get a submariner and a half, for the price of that frame.....

no "performance" bs here.. if anything, that is 10th order hair-splitting superior than any 2.5-3k frame...
 

TheMontashu

Pourly Tatteued Jeu
Mar 15, 2004
5,549
0
I'm homeless
ALEXIS_DH said:
holee sheet!!!!!:eek: :eek:

thats in the "my frame is jewerly" range...
you can get a submariner and a half, for the price of that frame.....

no "performance" bs here.. if anything, that is 10th order hair-splitting superior than any 2.5-3k frame...
The quality probably is not that much better, BUT you get any geometry you want and there is no derailer, as well there are 14 gears that you can shift while coasting or pedaling backwards
 

TheMontashu

Pourly Tatteued Jeu
Mar 15, 2004
5,549
0
I'm homeless
DHCorky said:
Nicolai pays very close attention to the details when building their bikes as Chris pointed out. Each frame carries a five year(even under race conditions) warranty. The warranty is linked to the frame so if you buy one second hand and have the original invoice the frame still has a warranty.

I am in love with the TST Evo. The price is steep, but one thing I see many people forgeting is that the frame has the drivetrain on it already and its included in the price. Makes the price a little easier to justify.
If you need to justify that frame you should not get it. People need to buy that knowing there is no justification beyond "I want it"
 

TurnerDHRider

Monkey
Jul 5, 2004
127
0
Sydney, Australia
Udi said:
The TST weighs a tonne. Do yourself a favour and keep the sunday. It's lower, slacker, lighter, and racier.

If you're the small asian guy on a yellow sunday (I think I saw you at coffs) - then the TST would be what you'd get if you figured out the perfect frame for you and proceeded to find the exact inverse of that

Ignore that if it's not you, but my comments about the two frames compared still stand!
haha...wow...how did u work that out? i m impressed...
yeah i mean..its just a fantasy i guess....i am just looking around for an 07 ride..want something unique..but of course..less expensive than that thing..
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,032
5,925
borcester rhymes
vitox said:
hope people dont think that no speedholes=weaksauce.
wait, I'm not sure what you're saying...you're asking if people think that the lack of speed holes is a bad thing?


regardless, i'm just kidding around. I can't stand the way nicolai machines everything. If you're doing it to save weight, then do it right, do as much as you can. I just can't believe how much CRAP is on their frames-extra gussets, linkages, torsion bars, holes, etc. I look at Nicolai frames and then other high end GOOD bikes and I just can't understand the need for such excess.
 

TurnerDHRider

Monkey
Jul 5, 2004
127
0
Sydney, Australia
yeah...i think its very fair to say that the Nucleon TST is a bit over the top...what would you guys recommend if i want something exotic/un common...but maybe with a price tag that is less than the TST? like Foes 2:1 Mono? or maybe a Yeti 303(if there is still a chance to get them)...
 

Ginger Ninja

Chimp
Oct 25, 2004
43
0
Australia
TurnerDHRider said:
yeah...i think its very fair to say that the Nucleon TST is a bit over the top...what would you guys recommend if i want something exotic/un common...but maybe with a price tag that is less than the TST? like Foes 2:1 Mono? or maybe a Yeti 303...
If you're only interested in getting something "exotic" then just get the rarest frame you can afford, it doesn't matter if it rides like a covered wagon. If you're hoping for more performance then your decision is going to be somewhat harder.

What don't you like about your Sunday? What are you hoping to gain from a new frame?
 

boozy1976

Monkey
Sep 7, 2005
129
0
world-euro-ger-bavaria-munich
my sunday is pretty exotic here in germany (app. 3 sundays in germany).

the TST evo has a Mag housing for the rohloff hub and Ti Bolts all over!

i personally don't like single pivots but this one is pretty trick with all the tech underneath...
look at the turner, almost same position of the pivot...