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Nikon D700

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,165
0
california
Biggest rumblings are of 21mp for the 5D2...damn.

RELEASE SO I CAN BUY A MK1 ALREADY. My $1000 5D is approaching...
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,643
397
NC
Off topic, but the 5D comment reminded me... I was at a wedding on Saturday. Wind was blowing, we were all outside and the photographer pops his 70-200 off his 5D and walks around with no lens on his camera for about 5 or 10 minutes, chatting with people/his assistants/etc.

:think:
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,965
4
Off topic, but the 5D comment reminded me... I was at a wedding on Saturday. Wind was blowing, we were all outside and the photographer pops his 70-200 off his 5D and walks around with no lens on his camera for about 5 or 10 minutes, chatting with people/his assistants/etc.

:think:
Hence the lucrative sensor cleaning product market.

The title "Professional" doesn't free you from the underlying pinning of "Dumbass".
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,643
397
NC
I considered trudging along in front of him, scuffing my feet and kicking up a dust storm, but I decided to be nice...
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
25
behind the viewfinder
Hence the lucrative sensor cleaning product market.

The title "Professional" doesn't free you from the underlying pinning of "Dumbass".

there are horror stories on POTN about certain 5D sensors being 'different' than others, so when people use the Copperhill/Eclipse sensor cleaning solution (basically methanol), it deteriorates the AA filter...

i've wet-cleaned my 30D a few times, but am now scared to do anything but the blower w/ my 5D.

btw photokina is in 4 weeks' time. plenty of time left for rumors.
 

Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,045
0
Towing the party line.
I would love 51 pt AF...especially if it went to the very corners. Not having AF points near the corners drives me batty shooting some stuff (bikes in particular actually). I want a head in the corner going right to left and 45degs to the focal plane. Nope, sorry, no can do.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,643
397
NC
show me your toughest BiF challenge that the D300 saved the day on.
More irrelevant reasoning and an irrational "challenge" :rolleyes:

More coverage is better. I leave my D300 on 51pt AF all the time because I can place my AF sensor exactly over my subject. That allows me to both autofocus without recomposing AND spot meter very precisely (again, without AE lock or recomposing). Especially useful on a tripod shooting images like the first one I posted in the "post a photo" thread where recomposing is impractical. AF was not used in that shot but spot metering was and I could spot meter right where I wanted to.

You can never tell whether 51pt AF "saved the day" - what, you want me to show you a bird in flight that's in focus and claim it was only because of the 51pt AF? It's simply more functional. Period. End of story. Arguing the point is stupid - if Canon implemented full coverage AF you'd make use of it and be happy.
 
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narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
25
behind the viewfinder
better placed AF points, yes...51? er, i likely don't need that many.

ansel adams didn't need no stinkin' spot metering.

big viewfinder on tripod = manual focusing.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,643
397
NC
Uh huh.

OK. You can go back to the dark ages. I'll stick with what works better and faster and more accurately, instead of inventing excuses as to why improvements aren't necessary.

BTW, didn't I just say I used manual focus? I could have sworn...
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
25
behind the viewfinder
works better and faster....it's all relative, isn't it?

i've seen people w/ kit lenses and entry level bodies which blow my sh!t out of the water.

for a somewhat staged shot like the bug (which was nice, btw), you don't need a whole lot of bells and whistles...

unless you are shooting in extreme conditions, i'd say that composition and photoshop skills are far better served than whatever particular camera one might use.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,643
397
NC
:rofl:

What could you possibly be arguing about here? I have the option, if I want it, to have an AF point (and correspondingly, a spot meter) placed literally anywhere on my composition. There are no negatives.

You could take all of your arguments and apply them to every new camera feature in the last 10 years. You don't need AF or IS/VR or advanced metering. But we have them, and they're better. Need is not the issue.
 

firetoole

duch bag
Nov 19, 2004
1,910
0
Wooo Tulips!!!!
for what I do the 51 point on my D3 and D300 usually works against me when I am shooting people at f1.4 it will often use the background. So I usually just use single with AF lock.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,643
397
NC
for what I do the 51 point on my D3 and D300 usually works against me when I am shooting people at f1.4 it will often use the background. So I usually just use single with AF lock.
You're referring to auto-area selection, not the 51pt AF itself :)

I use single-point selection 90% of the time, but there are points all over the frame to choose from, not a small selection in some engineer's idea of a usable pattern.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
25
behind the viewfinder
my point is when does feature become a bell or whistle?

will 85 AF points be 66% better than 51?

i am not arguing that the non-1 series canon AF pattern and number could be improved upon (esp the pattern), but i am skeptical that 51 is the right answer.

all i know is that i will not give up my direct print button.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,643
397
NC
my point is when does feature become a bell or whistle?

will 85 AF points be 66% better than 51?
Shrinking the AF points wouldn't be beneficial. Covering the sensor with them is the benefit. 51, 65, 39, the number is irrelevant. If 85 points cover the whole sensor, that's great.

Actually, the next feature that will come down the pipeline, mark my words, is one that Sony has been offering in their digicams for a while now: flexible spot AF. Basically you can position the AF sensor (and spot meter) anywhere - virtually infinite number of locations, you just use the touchpad to move it around. And, of course, you can revert back to normal pre-defined positions.

That'll be the end of the AF-point discussions :p

It's easy to do with contrast AF. Trickier with phase detection but it'll come I'm sure.

all i know is that i will not give up my direct print button.
:rofl:

I would process my images and put them back on the memory card just to make use of the print button :D
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
25
behind the viewfinder
ok, here's a good illustration of what i was talking about re: 51 AF points.

Nikon's are all clustered around the middle region as well. i could happily live w/ 13 AF points (desired ones filled in red)

 

PatBranch

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2004
10,461
7
wine country
I wish my 20D had more than 9 AF points that weren't all in the center. Why the hell does Canon put them all in the center? :rant:

It's so funny when I jokingly telling Nikon shooters that Canons are way better and they end up with their pantys in bunch.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
25
behind the viewfinder
there are points all over the frame to choose from, not a small selection in some engineer's idea of a usable pattern.
take a look @ the D700's AF pattern i posted (grey boxes are D700; red squares are the 5D). you don't think that's small, relatively speaking to the entire viewfinder area?


these are the rough dimension of the entire viewfinder area, and the area covered by the AF points:

520 (h) x 775 (w) = 403,000
155 (h) x 440 (w) = 68,200

so there's roughly 17% of the viewfinder area covered by AF points. all 51 of them. that's quite the packing density. :busted:
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,643
397
NC
Two things: on a cropped sensor (mine, and the one I was discussing), the AF points cover a pretty large portion of the whole sensor.

Secondly, I stand by my comment: having the option (and again, just an option - you can turn on the pre-defined 9 points if you want to) to blanket the sensor with AF and spot meter points is great. Especially shooting at extremely wide apertures where it's important to not recompose or, as stated, shooting on a tripod where recomposing is impractical.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
21,643
397
NC
Here, for comparison... Even accounting for a size difference between the 5D's picture and the D700, there's simply better coverage.

D300:


40D:


D700:


5D:
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
25,813
1,636
huh, interesting point about AF being proportionally more spread across the field of view on crop cameras...