Quantcast

No Child Left Behind...

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Okay - who here works in Education? I work With education but not directly in it (i.e. I work for a company that helps US districts stay in compliance with their legal requirements for communicating with parents, families, and students). So, I found this article in the NYTimes on Saturday, and I'm just curious what everyone thinks. I've got my wee little fingers on a lot of national data, and on tons of 'guides' that have helped me wrap my brain around a good portion of it (though I don't claim to understand all of it).

Good idea? Bad Idea? Worth a shot with modifications? If you're in education, how much of the law has hit you yet?

Bush Education Officials Find New Law a Tough Sell

February 22, 2004
By SAM DILLON





SALT LAKE CITY, Feb. 20 - It was 8 p.m., and Ken Meyer was
smiling gamely from a gloomy high school stage at an
audience of disgruntled teachers and parents to whom he had
been introduced as "a bigwig from Washington," come to Utah
to explain President Bush's centerpiece education law.

A former math teacher was at a microphone, arguing that it
would cost $1 billion for the state to carry out the law's
requirements, while the federal government gives Utah only
about $100 million.

"That's like sending a child for $10 worth of groceries and
giving him just $1 to buy them," the former teacher said.

"Let me correct that," Mr. Meyer interrupted wearily,
wading in as if with a fire extinguisher, spraying official
statistics on behalf of the Department of Education, where
he is a deputy assistant secretary. "Believe me, I've
traveled to 40 states to talk about this law, and I've done
the math. Its very well funded."

As he campaigns for re-election, President Bush hopes to
capitalize on the law, known as No Child Left Behind, as
one of the pillars of his domestic agenda. But the
Democratic presidential candidates have made it a frequent
target of criticism and ridicule. And things are not going
that well even in this, one of the most Republican of
states.

Not only the law's financing, but provisions that expand
standardized testing to raise achievement and that label
schools as underperforming when even small groups of
students miss proficiency targets have stirred discontent
nationwide among educators and local politicians. So Mr.
Meyer's job is to barnstorm the country, part good-will
diplomat, part flak-catcher, calming emotions and
clarifying misunderstandings.

He is one of many Bush administration officials traveling
to explain the 700-page law. Since Feb. 8, at least 10
other department and White House officials have spoken in
nine states, although Susan Aspey, a spokeswoman for the
Department of Education, said the pace of travel had been
consistent for the last year.

"I've been in some, I don't want to say hostile, but very
contentious environments" in recent months, Mr. Meyer said.
"Places where I wondered whether I'd get out of there with
my skin intact. This law is largely misunderstood by the
public because of its enormity, so people get emotional
about it, and you've got pent-up frustrations."

Mr. Meyer's trip this week was the second Bush
administration mission in two weeks to Utah. A five-person
delegation this month defended the law to lawmakers, but
the Republican-controlled Utah House nevertheless voted 64
to 8 on Feb. 10 not to comply with any provisions not fully
financed by federal money. That measure now awaits Senate
action.

Senator Dave Gladwell, a Republican who is the Utah bill's
Senate sponsor, said many of his colleagues felt ambivalent
about the measure.

"We don't want to embarrass President Bush or his
administration, and yet we're kind of sensitive to our
state sovereignty," he said.

Gov. Olene S. Walker, a Republican, said in an interview
that she expected "heated discussion" of the bill in the
Senate. She declined to say whether she would sign it if
approved.

The Feb. 10 vote by the Utah House was the strongest action
by any state legislature to date, but more than a dozen
other states have passed or introduced laws or resolutions
challenging the federal law or commissioning studies of the
costs of carrying it out.

Last month, the Republican-controlled Virginia House of
Delegates passed a resolution, 98 to 1, urging Congress to
exempt Virginia from the law. That vote came after Rod
Paige, the education secretary, and other administration
officials met with Virginia lawmakers, said James H.
Dillard II, chairman of the House Education Committee.

"Six of us met with Paige," Mr. Dillard, a Republican,
said. "He looked us in the eye and said, `It's fully
funded.' We looked him back in the eye and said, `We don't
think so.' "

"We got platitudes and stonewalls, but no corrective
action," he said.

Secretary Paige took action on one part of the law on
Thursday, announcing that test scores of recent immigrants
who did not speak English would no longer be considered in
determining whether a school was meeting annual targets for
academic progress.

That should mean that fewer schools will be judged as
"needing improvement," a label that requires schools to
carry out costly remedial measures and can result in
removal of their staffs. Still, experts predict that within
a few years a majority of the country's 90,000 schools will
receive the label.

Last fall, 245 of Utah's 810 schools were put on a watch
list because they had failed to make "adequate yearly
progress," said Steven O. Laing, Utah's state school
superintendent. Many had been considered excellent schools,
but ended up on the list because one small group of
students - fifth-grade special education students, for
instance - had failed to reach academic targets.

In a meeting with Mr. Meyer on Tuesday, several Republican
senators asked questions reflecting concerns about schools
put on watch lists in their districts. Mr. Meyer described
the law as a tool that helps states to measure school
performance, while giving them the flexibility to set their
own proficiency benchmarks.

"It's a pretty dynamic business management model," Mr.
Meyer said.

After the meeting, Senator Bill Wright, a Republican who is
chairman of the Senate Education Committee, said Mr. Meyer
had done "a great job."

"But we still have a difference of opinion about how
N.C.L.B. would affect Utah," Senator Wright said.

An hour later, Mr. Meyer met with school superintendents.
He heard Steven C. Norton, superintendent of a rural
district in northern Utah, report that parents were upset
that two schools had been put on a watch list because the
law required that 95 percent of students take the
standardized tests and one student less than that
qualifying threshold had shown up on testing day.

"These are die-hard conservative Republicans, and they feel
that this is like crying wolf when they see their school
labeled for frivolous reasons," Mr. Norton said in an
interview that he had told Mr. Meyer.

That evening, addressing 50 educators and parents at Kearns
High School in a Salt Lake City suburb, Mr. Meyer said that
American schools needed to improve so that workers could
compete for jobs in a globalized economy. The law, he said,
empowered educators by identifying students who needed
special help and resources.

Russel Sias, a retired engineer and registered Republican
whose daughter is a middle school teacher, said to a
reporter at the meeting: "I feel like we're hearing the
best vacuum cleaner salesman in the world. They're going to
label every school in the country as failing, and they call
it empowerment?"

Rebecca Christensen, who earns $26,000 a year teaching
sixth grade, told the crowd of the frustrations of trying
to raise test scores at a school where student turnover was
high and parental involvement low.

"How many of the congressmen who wrote this law have ever
been in a classroom?" she asked.

Mr. Meyer listened, and then congratulated Ms. Christensen
and the other teachers in the audience for working in
education under difficult conditions.

"You're all on the front line, and I applaud you," he said.


Then he added, "I like to quote the president: `There's not
a school in this country that doesn't need improvement.' "

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/22/national/22CHIL.html?ex=1078410065&ei=1&en
=ca1c765da0cb97a1
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
"This is groundbreaking legislation that enhances the federal government's commitment to our nation's public education system, dramatically reconfigures the federal role in public education, and embraces many of the principles and programs that I believe are critical to improving the public education system."

-J.F. Kerry 2001
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Originally posted by N8
"This is groundbreaking legislation that enhances the federal government's commitment to our nation's public education system, dramatically reconfigures the federal role in public education, and embraces many of the principles and programs that I believe are critical to improving the public education system."

-J.F. Kerry 2001
Now you need to post his attacking quotes.
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Originally posted by N8
Kerry is both for and against.... depending on how the political wind blows.... truely the mark of a great leader.
C'mon N8, if you're gonna take that tack you really should post his anti- statements as well as his pro- statements...

Or we might think you are lazy as well as biased.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Originally posted by N8
Kerry is both for and against.... depending on how the political wind blows.... truely the mark of a great leader.
Okay, and yes while what Kerry says is true, it might also be good to look at the opinions of individual states/teachers/districts/and other eductional organizations who have been hit by this law in a very short time frame, with not a lot of money, and stand the chance of losing what funding they are receiving if they are found to be non-compliant.

This particular law has a lot of areas in denial, in anger, frustration, up in arms...what ever you wanna call it...It's a tough call...the system needs reform, and badly, it needs a lot of attention, and badly, the question comes into play, how much at once? For how many dollars?

It's one thing to write a law, it's another thing to develop a plan for implementing it throughout the US. Many states are voting to reject it in its entirety.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
It's one thing to write a law, it's another thing to develop a plan for implementing it throughout the US. Many states are voting to reject it in its entirety.

and its a completely different matter to FUND it which is the key to the whole thing.

It was one of the things that Republicans crucified Clinton about all the time, Unfunded mandiates. Guess they forgot about that or is that a FLIP FLOP, N8?
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Originally posted by DRB
and its a completely different matter to FUND it which is the key to the whole thing.

It was one of the things that Republicans crucified Clinton about all the time, Unfunded mandiates. Guess they forgot about that or is that a FLIP FLOP, N8?
At the time of implementing this, the Feds actually reduced the amount of $$$ given to districts...and hinged district compliance to the remaining of the dollars they do receive...

If found uncompliant, they lose oodles of dollars...and then have to pay to get back into being in compliance.

Now...options are out there to help districts with the costs...people like my company, the states and regional educational associations are really rallying around and trying to come up with cost effective ways of staying in compliance...the hardest part is, how many of them aren't taking it seriously...assuming it'll go away in a year or two, or never bothered to read the law in its entirety and so are wholly unprepared for the requirements that went into effect at the beginning of this school year....

States are now getting their notices that they will be audited....tough on the districts who aren't ready ;)
 
J

JRB

Guest
I didn't read the whole thing yet, but I will say that Temple schools need help. I hear we don't really teach so well any more. Not that I am super duper smart.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,912
2,877
Pōneke
So, let me get this right - The feds are threatening to remove funding for schools unless local authorities implement their law? That is, like, SO productive.
 
J

JRB

Guest
Changleen said:
So, let me get this right - The feds are threatening to remove funding for schools unless local authorities implement their law? That is, like, SO productive.
Even on the purchasing level, educational politics are very corrupt. I am amazed at what they do.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
loco said:
I didn't read the whole thing yet, but I will say that Temple schools need help. I hear we don't really teach so well any more. Not that I am super duper smart.
I don't know what Temple schools is, or where...but we're getting more and more state doe's using our company because individual districts can't afford the man power necessary to do what we provide.
 
J

JRB

Guest
It's a town in TX. It's sad, because they used to be a front runner for education. They sink all of their money into police officers and football programs. :(

*it's where we live.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Changleen said:
So, let me get this right - The feds are threatening to remove funding for schools unless local authorities implement their law? That is, like, SO productive.
Dood - that is like, so 1968.

Ever hear of the Office of Civil Rights? Yea, you see, since 1968 if a school district got audited by OCR and was found to not be complying with their requirement to communicate in a language the parent/guardian can understand, the district was in danger of losing federal funding. Not ALL federal funding, but all $$ from the feds comes with strings attached and is meant to be used in certain ways. You also earn dollars from the government depending on the number of LEP families you're district deals with.

Essentially, the real result is, all districts need the money to hire the following:
a good lawyer
a good translator for every language represented in their district
a skilled database administrator
very very skilled secretaries and administrative assistance
principals who understand politics as well as children
employees who understand the need to work 60 to 80 hour weeks for 30k a year
teachers who are so totally competent at what they teach that they can pass any exam thrown at them by the gov't

And so on.

Once upon a time I was approached by people who worked in school districts and my mom who said, Jen, you've got the right skills to do what schools need.
I looked at the pay structure, and said, "no way honey" and went to work for my current company who provides a the first three things at very low cost for districts.
 

TreeSaw

Mama Monkey
Oct 30, 2003
17,832
2,191
Dancin' over rocks n' roots!
I am a teacher in the Schenectady City School District and trust me, we are beaten over the head with the NCLB legislation. Education does need reform, but we need the funds to implement change and there seems to be a lack of it!
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,912
2,877
Pōneke
Seems like teachers get a ****ty deal in most countries these days. It's pretty sad. Being a teacher is probably one of the most important jobs there is, but it seems more and more they are handicapped by excessive red tape and measures which rob them of their authority to teach. In the UK we already have a generation of little bastards who have zero respect for anyone or anything because they've never been diciplined properly.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
TreeSaw said:
I am a teacher in the Schenectady City School District and trust me, we are beaten over the head with the NCLB legislation. Education does need reform, but we need the funds to implement change and there seems to be a lack of it!
Hey darlin - just a question, what state is your district in, I don't have my DB in front of me, but we just signed with three new state dept of eds so we can help districts meet their NCLB requirements without the districts needing to spend quite so many $$$.

Jen
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Changleen said:
Seems like teachers get a ****ty deal in most countries these days. It's pretty sad. Being a teacher is probably one of the most important jobs there is, but it seems more and more they are handicapped by excessive red tape and measures which rob them of their authority to teach. In the UK we already have a generation of little bastards who have zero respect for anyone or anything because they've never been diciplined properly.
:) Yes.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
TreeSaw said:
I am a teacher in the Schenectady City School District and trust me, we are beaten over the head with the NCLB legislation. Education does need reform, but we need the funds to implement change and there seems to be a lack of it!
For some reason I thought you were in FL, not NY. You NYers are a tougher state for us to help out ;) We've only got a handful of districts there using our NCLB services.

I'm sorry to hear though that they're giving you such a hard time with the NCLB legislation!!!
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Jr_Bullit said:
At the time of implementing this, the Feds actually reduced the amount of $$$ given to districts...and hinged district compliance to the remaining of the dollars they do receive...

If found uncompliant, they lose oodles of dollars...and then have to pay to get back into being in compliance.

Now...options are out there to help districts with the costs...people like my company, the states and regional educational associations are really rallying around and trying to come up with cost effective ways of staying in compliance...the hardest part is, how many of them aren't taking it seriously...assuming it'll go away in a year or two, or never bothered to read the law in its entirety and so are wholly unprepared for the requirements that went into effect at the beginning of this school year....

States are now getting their notices that they will be audited....tough on the districts who aren't ready ;)
Accountability for teachers and school districts?
Gasp!

This must be stopped. :rolleyes:

While granted this is by no means a perfect plan it beats the status-quo.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Jr_Bullit said:
Dood - that is like, so 1968.

Ever hear of the Office of Civil Rights? Yea, you see, since 1968 if a school district got audited by OCR and was found to not be complying with their requirement to communicate in a language the parent/guardian can understand, the district was in danger of losing federal funding. Not ALL federal funding, but all $$ from the feds comes with strings attached and is meant to be used in certain ways. You also earn dollars from the government depending on the number of LEP families you're district deals with.
Now this I firmly disagree with.
IMO there should not be as much $$ spent on educating in alternative languages.

Shouldn't we do everything we can to get ALL kids into classes where ENGLISH is spoken 100% of the time. What good does it do a kid to go through school entirely in Thai (or whatever) when the classes in the state universities are taught in english and GE isn't going to provide an interpreter for the weekly staff meetings either.
 

Discostu

Monkey
Nov 15, 2003
524
0
Damn True said:
Accountability for teachers and school districts?
Gasp!

This must be stopped. :rolleyes:

While granted this is by no means a perfect plan it beats the status-quo.
Right, because obviously the only reason a student would perform poorly is because their school district and teachers aren't trying hard enough.

After all if the poor testing results were due to a lack of resources and funding like the teachers say, then cutting their funding as punishment would only lead to worse and worse results. And our wonderful all knowing president Bush wouldn't lead us into a mess like that would he?
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Damn True said:
N spent on educating in alternative languages.
Wow - totally missed the point...nicely done

Not "educating in alternative languages" goof - communicating with families in a language they can understand...

So - picture this - you're a new immigrant to the US - you speak only Amharic at this point, and you know a few words in English.

The school sends you a packet of 20 papers all in English you need to complete to register your kid for school. Tell me how likely it is you take any action.

Now - the legal scenario: the school sends you the same packet of 20 papers but it includes a translated version in Amharic that you can understand. You get the information, get your kid immunized, and read up on what's involved in being an American parent and keeping your kid safe and healthy.

Seems to me the legal scenario, however expensive and unrealistic, has a higher probability of involving the parents in their kids education.