[Kevin]

Ok lets make some stuff clear here before we go any further.
I dare anyone even remotely religious to awnser these questions.

If jesus asked for forgiveness and died for Adams sin, shouldnt we be free from original sin, making us without sin in the first place and throwing the whole concept of christianity upside down?

Also, since many of the biblical stories are malicious and cruel, appearently christians are supposed to filter out morality based on their own judgement in stead of basing it on scripture, doesnt this mean that we dont need the bible/religion to be moral?
Doesnt this make religion obsolete according to its own reason?

 

[jonKranked]

Ok lets make some stuff clear here before we go any further.
I dare anyone even remotely religious to awnser these questions.

If jesus asked for forgiveness and died for Adams sin, shouldnt we be free from original sin, making us without sin in the first place and throwing the whole concept of christianity upside down?

are you talking about historical jesus or white jesus?

Also, since many of the biblical stories are malicious and cruel, appearently christians are supposed to filter out morality based on their own judgement in stead of basing it on scripture, doesnt this mean that we dont need the bible/religion to be moral?
Doesnt this make religion obsolete according to its own reason?

did you not pay attention in school? history is a lot like today. full of assholes.

 

[MMike]

you guys are so ghey

 

[kidwoo]

you guys are so ghey

You better watch out. Santorum warned us about this.

First it's homosexuals marrying each other. Next thing you know it's people wanting to get married to canadians.

eeshh......can you imagine?

 

[dante]

My idea of what the stereotypical anti-gay-marriage person looks and sounds like:

 

[DaveW]

My idea of what the stereotypical anti-gay-marriage person looks and sounds like:

The guy behind her is having a real hard time keeping a straight face.

 

[$tinkle]

Non of these prople have ever commited any crimes against others in the name of atheism

perhaps you're trying to wiggle out by playing semantic games, but even you must acknowledge religion & communism are incompatible. therefore, advocating atheism at the point of the spear is criminal

Im getting sick and tired of arguing with people like you. Every argument you come up with has allready been destroyed by people like Hitchens or Dawkins.

well, that settles it, then

The fact that you dont want to read about them doesnt make u more right.
So i suggest you get educated or shut the **** up.

i've read more dawkins & hitchens than you have the bible.

Youre on the losing side of this debate, ever wonder why that is?

i sharply disagree

Tribal ethnic in practice means religious.

except that it doesn't any more than any other of my previously listed persons did what they did b/c they justified it. this is precisely what you're going for, and you cannot refute that tribal/ethnic has bloodline as a necessary component, whereas anyone can opt-in for a religion.

Another thing you should look into because you dont seem to know a lot about the subject...

see above

And damm right christians can not be moral.

well, following this reasoning, you have a moral imperative to protect society from christianity's immoral influence. you should seek redress for the high crime of belief by making christianity illegal. i think there were some fellas depicted earlier who were rather successful in doing this, if you need a how-to guide.

If you would even read half of the bible and look at the content you would see this.

which half?

But i doubt most "christians" have read even parts of it...

not in the original aramaic, greek, or hebrew, no -- but i did see the passion of the christ while staying at a holiday inn express

If jesus asked for forgiveness and died for Adams sin, shouldnt we be free from original sin, making us without sin in the first place and throwing the whole concept of christianity upside down?

when someone intentionally offends you & asks forgiveness and you forgive them, does that then mean it never actually happened? this is what you're suggesting.

Also, since many of the biblical stories are malicious and cruel, appearently christians are supposed to filter out morality based on their own judgement in stead of basing it on scripture, doesnt this mean that we dont need the bible/religion to be moral?
Doesnt this make religion obsolete according to its own reason?

i tried diagramming this paragraph, and each time it formed either a star of david, or a pentagram. i'm going to offer indulgences to get back in good graces


and dante: thanks heaps; you broke my internet *and* gave me cholera. i didn't think trolls came in stupid old white woman form

 

[Kevin]

Just because you lack the mental capacity to understand the chrystalclear arguments and reasoning against religion doesnt mean religion is good or true.

Guess you cant argue with stupid...

 

[stevew]

chrystalclear

Guess you cant argue with stupid...

lost in translation?

 

[stevew]

Guess who just lost North Carolina?

file under "they think fags are subhuman but they still have barry's back"....

 

[X3pilot]

Which tells me that the black voting populace is no different than the white voting populace when it comes to supporting a candidate. It's more about style, skin color, religion, etc than substance of policy and governing style. Hmmmm. By any means necessary indeed.

 

[Pesqueeb]

Tribal Loyalty?

 

[binary visions]

My idea of what the stereotypical anti-gay-marriage person looks and sounds like:

I don't know if I'm supposed to like or dislike that

 

[kidwoo]

My idea of what the stereotypical anti-gay-marriage person looks and sounds like:

OH MY GAWD that's awesome!!!


There's a entire lifetime series of frame decals, bumper stickers and coffee mugs in there. I've got to find a transcript of that. I think it's the bronner's soap label played backwards.

 

[Silver]

Which tells me that the black voting populace is no different than the white voting populace when it comes to supporting a candidate. It's more about style, skin color, religion, etc than substance of policy and governing style. Hmmmm. By any means necessary indeed.

It tells me that black people dislike being called shiftless naggers by the one party more than they hate the faggots that the other party supports, sorta, kinda, but states should decide if they want to be 19th century backwards assholes...

 

[$tinkle]

Guess you cant argue with stupid...

hey, if *i* can do it for most of this thread, there's no reason why you can't

file under "they think fags are subhuman but they still have barry's back"....

hmmm...url says 'yahoo', but content says 'onion'

Tribal Loyalty?

<shaft>daaaaaaaaamn right</shaft>

There's a entire lifetime series of frame decals, bumper stickers and coffee mugs in there. I've got to find a transcript of that. I think it's the bronner's soap label played backwards.

what's the +/- tosh will have her on for a web redemption that degrades into a gang bang, a.k.a. "taking turns having a go at the flaming hoop in a public park"?

 

[stevew]

It tells me that black people dislike being called shiftless naggers by the one party more than they hate the faggots that the other party supports, sorta, kinda, but states should decide if they want to be 19th century backwards assholes...

or...if on the down low...it's only gay if you're receiving..

 

[Silver]

or...if on the down low...it's only gay if you're receiving..

If you're only giving, you're a bit of a selfish motherfvcker, no?

 

[Kevin]

lost in translation?

Half a bottle of the Macallan 15 yo Fine Oak

 

[jonKranked]

this might be relevant....

"In our past writings, we have criticized both parties when we believed it was warranted. Today, however, we have no choice but to acknowledge that the core of the problem lies with the Republican Party.
"The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition."

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/14/opinion/frum-mann-ornstein/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

 

[$tinkle]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/14/opinion/frum-mann-ornstein/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

it digs its own gold:

 

[OldCrow]

I could careless that NORTH CAROLINA FOLLOWED CALIFORNIA but that didn't make news get over it states rights. Most Gay couples I know would like to be employed vs getting married. Again I don't know why this is an issue its not my business.

 

[sanjuro]

I could careless that NORTH CAROLINA FOLLOWED CALIFORNIA but that didn't make news get over it states rights. Most Gay couples I know would like to be employed vs getting married. Again I don't know why this is an issue its not my business.

California was a tactical mistake. It happened when everyone was focused on Obama beating the Republican stooge and her running mate.

If Prop 8 was a 2010 electoral issue, it would have failed (Prop 8 was also confusing), saving the courts the time and trouble to overturn it.

P.S. I'm sure you know as many gay people as I do as a San Francisco resident, but believe it or not, people can care about two things at the same time.

 

[JohnE]

...but believe it or not, people can care about two things at the same time.

No way!? Technological advances...wow. Whats next?

 

[jonKranked]

No way!? Technological advances...wow. Whats next?

next, comes the cup.

 

[stevew]

 

[dante]

There's a certain place in hell reserved for Republican Rep. Don Coram.....

Republican Rep. Don Coram, whose son is gay, cited his reasons for voting against the measure while his wife, Dianna Coram, wiped away tears in the audience.

Awkward dinner conversation that night?

 

[X3pilot]

Ahhh, politics. When your desire for ego and power trumps the natural instinct one should have toward protecting their children.

Didn't even read the reasons, because they just don't matter.

 

[stevew]

hell

you can't have it both ways.

 

[jonKranked]

According to a study (survey?) conducted by The Barna Group, a whopping 91 percent of non-Christians, aged 16-29, responded with &#8220;anti-homosexual&#8221; when asked what word best describes Christianity. The same was true for 80 percent of young churchgoers.
The next leading negative image words? Judgmental, hypocritical and &#8220;too involved in politics.&#8221;

http://unicornbooty.com/blog/2012/05/16/overwhelming-majority-associates-christian-with-anti-homosexual/

 

[Kevin]

Real talk: I’m Catholic. My family has strong ties to religion, but not the “gays are going to hell, child-molesting” religion. More the “be a good person, God loves everyone” religion. You know, the way it’s supposed to be?

As long as this supposedly good form religion exists there will allways be fundamentalists and extremisme.
Religion in its core tells people to stop questioning and to accept certain things as absolute truth even if its against their better judgement.
Because there can never be a one true religion or unified religion there will allways be religions that clash in their doctrines.
Since people are brought up to believe without question there will allways be people who will not question when their religion (weather its in an ancient book or a figure of power of the particular church) tells them to; hate gays, set fire to abortion clinics, murder doctors that work at abortion clinics, go overseas and torture and convert people who dont agree with your religion, fight entire wars and commit genocide, separate jewish children from their parents because they were babtized by a christian babysitter when the child was sick and the babysitter thought the child would go to hell if it were not babtized (this actually was pretty common not too long ago), cut peoples throats on national tv, bomb innocent men and women and children who have done nothing but believe in another version of truth, fly planes into buildings etc etc.
I could go on with this list but there wouldnt be enough space on the internet.

So even though there might be nothing wrong in the way some people experiance religion on a personal, religion as a concept will allways breed hate and violence. Since it has been proven that we dont need religion for anything other then people still relying on its comfort for the simple reason that they were brought up with it, we would be better off without religion at all.
Luckily more and more people have "seen the light" and are letting their kids choose for themselves (remember there is no such thing as a christion or muslim child. Only a child of Christian or Muslim parents) weather they want to be religious or not but we have a long way to go.

It makes it worse when you have these hateful people that claim to be doing God’s work, and claim that they love everyone, etc. and yet they campaign so aggressively against LGBT rights. Then, you give them examples to show holes in their thought process, and it doesn’t even get acknowledged.

This is a verry funny sentence, religious people do the same thing when it comes to evidence against their way of experiancing religion.
Again because people are brought up to believe without question and to accept the word of god even if it goes against crystalclear scientific evidence.

 

[dante]

Based on that, Kevin, I retract my previous comment. I misunderstood what you were saying.

I also think that you're wrong, that all "religion as a concept will allways breed hate and violence". Religion is power through the utter devotion of it's followers, and there will *always* be people that will utilize power to achieve their goals. The source of the power doesn't matter; it could be nationalistic, racial or religious adherence, or it could be monetary power, or military power. That is not to say that money, or national pride, or military power is inherently evil, only that it is a tool, and as such can be used to carry out the wishes of those who wield it.

 

[Andyman_1970]

I've been lurking for a while now I figure I'll jump in.............

There&#8217;s a fundamental assumption you make there Kevin, that while true in many cases is not true in all cases of those who believe a particular religion.

I&#8217;ll use Christianity as my example. There are vast segments of the Christian faith that are both taught and &#8220;scared&#8221; to question their faith. The curious thing is our Jewish &#8220;relatives&#8221; in faith have a history of comfortably questioning their faith, and the Bible is full of accounts of those who question their faith. Paul himself even says &#8220;test everything, hold on to the good.&#8221; I&#8217;ve come to the conclusion in my faith journey, that the &#8220;thou shalt not question&#8221; hordes were mislead (for a myriad of reasons) and that the Text actually encourages healthy questioning of one&#8217;s faith and beliefs. Fundamentally IMO, evangelical Christianity for the most part in the West (and especially the US) has lost the plot, they&#8217;ve become &#8220;corrupt&#8221; with their desire for political power and influence&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;interestingly something Jesus speaks specifically against&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.

 

[TheMontashu]

I've been lurking for a while now I figure I'll jump in.............

There&#8217;s a fundamental assumption you make there Kevin, that while true in many cases is not true in all cases of those who believe a particular religion.

I&#8217;ll use Christianity as my example. There are vast segments of the Christian faith that are both taught and &#8220;scared&#8221; to question their faith. The curious thing is our Jewish &#8220;relatives&#8221; in faith have a history of comfortably questioning their faith, and the Bible is full of accounts of those who question their faith. Paul himself even says &#8220;test everything, hold on to the good.&#8221; I&#8217;ve come to the conclusion in my faith journey, that the &#8220;thou shalt not question&#8221; hordes were mislead (for a myriad of reasons) and that the Text actually encourages healthy questioning of one&#8217;s faith and beliefs. Fundamentally IMO, evangelical Christianity for the most part in the West (and especially the US) has lost the plot, they&#8217;ve become &#8220;corrupt&#8221; with their desire for political power and influence&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;interestingly something Jesus speaks specifically against&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.

I don't have the care right now to find it, but there is a quote from the real part of the bible (the 5 books of Moses) that talks about mans inability to truly understand the word of god. So any one telling you they are "right" is not only, a liar, but going against the bible. You bring this up, and you get a retarded look and a bunch of unclear stammering before they change the topic.

 

[$tinkle]

I don't have the care right now to find it, but there is a quote from the real part of the bible (the 5 books of Moses) that talks about mans inability to truly understand the word of god. So any one telling you they are "right" is not only, a liar, but going against the bible. You bring this up, and you get a retarded look and a bunch of unclear stammering before they change the topic.

just so we're clear: are you saying that we cannot truly understand the word of god...and then cite the very word of god to back up this claim? i see how unbelievers can reasonably mock the believing

that's almost as confusing as saying "there is no such thing as a christion or muslim child. Only a child of Christian or Muslim parents", as if parents cannot be or were not themselves children

 

[dante]

Not his "word" (ie, the Bible) but rather his voice/actions:

God's voice thunders in marvelous ways; he does great things beyond our understanding.

then I saw all that God has done. No one can comprehend what goes on under the sun. Despite all his efforts to search it out, man cannot discover its meaning. Even if a wise man claims he knows, he cannot really comprehend it.

Not only that, but there are enough conflicting aspects brought on by Jesus in the New Testament (ie, healing on the Sabbath, or able to eat things that were thought to be "unclean") that it should give anyone pause before claiming that they *know* what God's will is.

 

[TheMontashu]

just so we're clear: are you saying that we cannot truly understand the word of god...and then cite the very word of god to back up this claim? i see how unbelievers can reasonably mock the believing

that's almost as confusing as saying "there is no such thing as a christion or muslim child. Only a child of Christian or Muslim parents", as if parents cannot be or were not themselves children

Yup, that's sort of how it works. The idea is that the bible is in fact the word of G-d but there are contradictions and holes in the "literal" interpretation IE the bible says for Noah to take 2 of every animal, then later 2 of every dirty and 7 of every clean. But in fact G-d is above us and all knowing, and as humans we cannot understand the true meaning of G-d's words and we must interpret the meaning. There is a huge tradition in Judaism of health debate of the meaning of scripture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud

The way I troll Jesus freaks isn't what I believe either, I like to bring up the "why don't you hit your wife like the bible says?" point

In all honesty though, my personal opinion is that yes, there is a G-d, but from all the study I've done of my religion I've come to these conclusions, religion s meant to do 2 things, explain why we are here, and tell us how to treat each other. No where in the bible does it say a day for G-d is 24 hours, or 15 billion years, so I see no problem with believing in evolution or any sort of real science to explain things. But when it really comes down to it, the main point of the bible is to tell people how to live with one another and do good things.

 

[TheMontashu]

Not his "word" (ie, the Bible) but rather his voice/actions:





Not only that, but there are enough conflicting aspects brought on by Jesus in the New Testament (ie, healing on the Sabbath, or able to eat things that were thought to be "unclean") that it should give anyone pause before claiming that they *know* what God's will is.

I love the literal interpretation of that too, sounds like a flowery education or enlightenment to me.

 

[Pesqueeb]

the real part of the bible

 

[dante]

I think that this is what he's trying to say? (The first 10sec, anyway)