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rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,342
924
East Bay, Cali
I feel like we have had this conversation before. Are we getting predictable?

Kevin - Talks mad sh!t on religion.

Dante - Says it's the people not the religion that suck

Stinkle - Tries to simultaneously dispute everyone's argument.

Andy - Makes a reasonable and well thought out point poking holes in Kevin's sweeping generalizations.

Mushu - Shows up and says how great it is being Jewy is.

Woo - Snipes from the bushes.

Rocko - Someone want to fill in the blank?

Squeeb - Looks on in disappointment.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
just so we're clear: are you saying that we cannot truly understand the word of god...and then cite the very word of god to back up this claim? i see how unbelievers can reasonably mock the believing
This is exactly where we see the difference between a Hebrew Eastern way of thinking and a Greek Western way of thinking. Jews and their Eastern way of thinking when it comes to faith are very comfortable holding two “contradicting” truths to be true simultaneously……..like the whole free will argument instead of an “either / or” it’s more like “it’s a mystery”. Modernity and it’s desire to “define” God with all it’s systematic theology (I still have that text book) wasn’t necessarily a bad impulse, but I believe it got to a place where there was no room for the mystery of God.

Sometimes I wonder if Christians have put the Bible “ahead” of God, that it is some sort of perfect thing never to be challenged or questioned. I would argue quite the opposite, while IMO it is a fantastic narrative on God and His interactions with humanity, but it was also written by real fallible humans, in a real time, in a real place. Because of that it carries some of the “warts” of being written by humans. Then the inevitable question comes “if the Bible is not ‘perfect’ and ‘infallible’ how can we know what it says is true”……..tantamount to questioning a Christians very faith. Which leads me to the question, what is their faith in? The Bible? Or God? To use an illustration, say all of us witnessed some event from different places, positions and methods (TV, internet, etc) and then documented all of our observations. There is the “baseline” of the actual events that we observed, but our observations by the very nature that we’re human, our cultural differences, etc will not 100% align with that “baseline”. If one had no access to said baseline and only had the observations, they could “tease” (as NT Wright likes to put it) out through careful study and examination those kernels of the baseline. There is little “teasing” in Evangelical Christianity today, there is only “Yep that’s what the Bible said so it must be true and that’s good enough for me”. It’s the religious equivalent of buying junk food at Wal Mart and eating yourself to obesity, there’s no effort, no work, no testing, not questioning, no (as James puts it) “working out your salvation”.
 

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
40,143
16,538
Riding the baggage carousel.
I feel like we have had this conversation before. Are we getting predictable?

Kevin - Talks mad sh!t on religion.

Dante - Says it's the people not the religion that suck

Stinkle - Tries to simultaneously dispute everyone's argument.

Andy - Makes a reasonable and well thought out point poking holes in Kevin's sweeping generalizations.

Mushu - Shows up and says how great it is being Jewy is.

Woo - Snipes from the bushes.

Rocko - Someone want to fill in the blank?

Squeeb - Looks on in disappointment.
Can we make this post a sticky?
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Based on that, Kevin, I retract my previous comment. I misunderstood what you were saying.

I also think that you're wrong, that all "religion as a concept will allways breed hate and violence". Religion is power through the utter devotion of it's followers, and there will *always* be people that will utilize power to achieve their goals. The source of the power doesn't matter; it could be nationalistic, racial or religious adherence, or it could be monetary power, or military power. That is not to say that money, or national pride, or military power is inherently evil, only that it is a tool, and as such can be used to carry out the wishes of those who wield it.
Im not saying that without religion there would be no violence or abuse of power. Im saying that without religion the amount of violence and misery in the world would be drastically lower.
Ofcourse violence is a human and naturalistic phenomenon, but there are numerous cases where people commit crime in the name of religion. I have never seen crime commited in the name of Atheisme.

Also, a lot of the conflicts in past and recent times that a lot of people would call, nationalistic or monetary have also been religious.
Just to name an example. The war in former Yugoslavia was reported on the news as being nationalistic while in fact it was very deeply rooted in religion.

Im not saying that every particular religion is a breeding ground for fundamentalisme, but religion as a concept is.

We have plenty of violence in this world as it is, why would we need more violence that has, in my opinion and luckily many others, become obsolete?
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Andy...

As ive said before, im not saying every religion itself is a bad thing.
The problem is that most people dont believe the religion you believe in. They believe in the easily turned into radicalisation mumbo jumbo religion.
If everyone would be like you there wouldnt be a problem, but then again, if everyone would be a fundamentalist muslim there also wouldnt be a problem...
 
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Kevin

Turbo Monkey
just so we're clear: are you saying that we cannot truly understand the word of god...and then cite the very word of god to back up this claim? i see how unbelievers can reasonably mock the believing

that's almost as confusing as saying "there is no such thing as a christion or muslim child. Only a child of Christian or Muslim parents", as if parents cannot be or were not themselves children
The parents were atheists untill religious doctrine by authority figures convinced them otherwise.
Let a child go to school now nd dont tell him about religion but just about science.
Then after say 18 years, introduce them to religion and let them choose for themselves.
Kids are being brainwashed into religion from before they can speak. Ofcourse they will believe what their parents and teachers say, they believe in a big fat guy in a red suit with flying reindeer untill their parents tell them they made the thing up.
 
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Kevin

Turbo Monkey
I feel like we have had this conversation before. Are we getting predictable?

Kevin - Talks mad sh!t on religion.

Dante - Says it's the people not the religion that suck

Stinkle - Tries to simultaneously dispute everyone's argument.

Andy - Makes a reasonable and well thought out point poking holes in Kevin's sweeping generalizations.

Mushu - Shows up and says how great it is being Jewy is.

Woo - Snipes from the bushes.

Rocko - Someone want to fill in the blank?

Squeeb - Looks on in disappointment.
Im simply repeating what ive learned from reading stuff by great thinkers like Dawkins, Hitchens, Carl Sagan, Einstein, Darwin, David Hume etc etc.
If you want to say they talk mad **** about religion be my guest. But remember, even Galileo was told he was talking mad ****.
The church didnt even recognize the heliocentric theory untill 1992.

For the rest youre mostly right with your assumptions unless they disagree with me. :D
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
i'd like to propose a custom title for kevin:

"The Angry Dutchman"
Thanks, but compared to many Atheists im not that bad...

Im not generaly an angry person at all btw. Im actually a very fun guy in my personal life. (no homo)
But I think its essential for the future of the human species that we get rid of religion as soon as possible.

I know it wont happen in my lifetime, but were getting there one step at a time.
 
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Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
Im simply repeating what ive learned from reading stuff by great thinkers like ......................Einstein, .....................
Einstein from Wiki
Einstein stated: "I have repeatedly said that in my opinion the idea of a personal God is a childlike one. You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist whose fervor is mostly due to a painful act of liberation from the fetters of religious indoctrination received in youth. I prefer an attitude of humility corresponding to the weakness of our intellectual understanding of nature and of our own being."
Einstein said, "In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."
If Einstein was talking mad sh!t about anyone it was people who cite him to make an argument against the existence of a God.
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Einstein from Wiki




If Einstein was talking mad sh!t about anyone it was people who cite him to make an argument against the existence of a God.

I didnt quote Einstein anywhere did I?
I just said I base my opinions on what I learned from what he has discovered.

Surely you can do better then this semi witty reply Andy?
Youre here to make a reasonable and well thought out point poking holes in my sweeping generalizations.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,520
7,069
Colorado
I feel like we have had this conversation before. Are we getting predictable?

Kevin - Talks mad sh!t on religion.

Dante - Says it's the people not the religion that suck

Stinkle - Tries to simultaneously dispute everyone's argument.

Andy - Makes a reasonable and well thought out point poking holes in Kevin's sweeping generalizations.

Mushu - Shows up and says how great it is being Jewy is.

Woo - Snipes from the bushes.

Rocko - Someone want to fill in the blank?

Squeeb - Looks on in disappointment.
I feel left out.
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
You just quoted Einstein on saying he thinks a personal god is a childlike id.
This would surely classify as talking mad **** about religion wouldnt it?
If you refer to Einstein talking about any god, i can tell you that he uses god as a metaphore to the naturalistic way the universe got into being. Not even close to a theist, deist or even agnostic.

And why the settle down Beavis? Im being perfectly calm and argumental in my posts.
There is no reason to feel offended yet you act as if im personally attacking you when all i do is disagree.

And no Sagan wasnt a rabid Atheist, but he was very sceptic, if not opposed to religion. Something I think everybody should be, especially if there is not a single piece of evidence for it but plenty against it.

The fact that you had to go and look all this stuff up implies that you arent to familliar with their works.
I seriously want to suggest that you read a book called the God delusion by Dawkins, or God is not great by Hitchens. In turn I will read any book you think will give me a new insights on this discussion.

I really want to know both sides of the story so i can form my own independant opinion.
So far this opinion is that I do not believe in any god and truly believe religion has served its purpose to humanity and that we must move away from it.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,342
924
East Bay, Cali
I feel left out.
Aww... don't be sad bro. You usually don't get as involved in the religion scrum but if we were talking about political/economic debate then it would be something like.

Jokey98 - Brings lots of complex econ evidence to support opinion then has 50 posts arguing with mushu about who is a bigger dumbass.
 

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,520
7,069
Colorado
Aww... don't be sad bro. You usually don't get as involved in the religion scrum but if we were talking about political/economic debate then it would be something like.
Good point. I still stand that Andy is the first Christian I have ever "met" who really is truly analytical and has read the book in detail. It is very impressive and comforting that there are some open thought bible thumpers. J/K about the bible thumping.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
I feel like we have had this conversation before. Are we getting predictable?

Kevin - Talks mad sh!t on religion.

Dante - Says it's the people not the religion that suck

Andy - Makes a reasonable and well thought out point poking holes in Kevin's sweeping generalizations.

Mushu - Shows up and says how great it is being Jewy is.

Woo - Snipes from the bushes.

Rocko - Someone want to fill in the blank?

Squeeb - Looks on in disappointment.
Can we make this post a sticky?
And what the fvck am I, assholes? Chopped liver?

(Christ, the one time I don't get up on the pulpit and do the raving atheist, and I get left out. Now I know why Fred Phelps is such an abrasive dick...)
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
And what the fvck am I, assholes? Chopped liver?
I always just pictured a rabid (like literally with rabies) amphibious octopus crawling up on a socal beach swatting bimbos in bikinis with a megaphone, a bottle of bourbon, a bible on fire, an empty tentacle that just threw the other bourbon bottle that was on fire, a list of home prices in canada updated to the minute, and then three tentacles left to flip me off.

It takes three because you're canadian and probably do it in a really french kind of way.
 
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$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
unless my bose noise canceling headphones are lying, she sounds welsh




with a touch of macon, ga
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
She sound ALOT like the assitant principle at our 14yo's middle school.............was saying "skreet" in the office on Friday when referring to across the STREET.........
maybe she saw an amblamce?

i wonder which teachers union will come to her aid now that she's suspended

hell hath no fury like a welsh female public school teacher betrayed with her own words
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
40,494
9,524
She sound ALOT like the assitant principle at our 14yo's middle school.............was saying "skreet" in the office on Friday when referring to across the STREET.........
maybe it was going to school in the 80's but....the african american teachers i did have always sounded like this guy....

 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
my 2 black math teachers (crandall, 7th-precalc, williams, 9th-calc) left me in the dust :think:
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
I can't believe I listened to over 5min of that........... Kid must have known that it was going to set her off (why else would he be randomly recording a discussion in class?), but jeez, the stupid emanating out of that youtube video is pretty bad.

I gotta say, though, you put out a job that requires a Bachelor's / Master's degree and only offer a $30k starting salary, this is the type of "talent" you're going to get.
 

rockofullr

confused
Jun 11, 2009
7,342
924
East Bay, Cali
I gotta say, though, you put out a job that requires a Bachelor's / Master's degree and only offer a $30k starting salary, this is the type of "talent" you're going to get.
It's weird. A person's salary seems so much smaller when they don't work for 3 months out of the year.