What's up? You libs are slipping.
No Karl Rove Bashing today..???
- Thread starter N8 v2.0
- Start date
Its a very interesting story...if he did leak the name, should he be tried for treason? If so, imagine the uproar if Bush pardoned him.
Yeah and so what?BillT said:
By the time any trial happened and he was convicted, Bush would be leaving office, so there wouldnt be any repercussions. People would be upset, and then forget about it after 2 weeks (like Clinton's pardons that were total BS).
Ok, I'll play ball.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8445696/site/newsweek/
how much you want to bet that Rove will do LESS jailtime (or qual if nobody goes to jail) than the reporters who didn't even write the story. god what a sleezy administration.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8445696/site/newsweek/
how much you want to bet that Rove will do LESS jailtime (or qual if nobody goes to jail) than the reporters who didn't even write the story. god what a sleezy administration.
That [Ed:attourney] is kind of glib with the "apparently works at the Agency" part of Rove's statements to Cooper. If Plame didn't work overtly at the CIA at the time of that statement, then in fact, he IS pointing out her identity as a clandestine operative.N8 said:
He doesn't name her "by name," true...he calls her "Wilson's wife," which is as specific as using a name, and doesn't explicitly state she's a clandestine operative, but says she "works at the Agency." If she's not openly a CIA employee (analyst, janitor, secretary, whatever, at HQ in Langley), and he's pointing out her CIA connections, his statements have the same effect and intention.
That kind of semantic sleight-of-brain is what Clinton tried to pull, remember? "It depends on what you mean by sex..."
Then again, I'm NOT thoroughly familiar with the case....you'll see my "ifs" above. If Plame WAS working openly for the CIA but was concealing clandestine activities on the side (an odd thing, I'd think, but I'm no secret agent), then Mr. Rove is indeed in the clear.
And Novak's still not in prison. That's REALLY the f'd up part of it all.
MD
As it was she was not working for the CIA but Brewster Jennings & Associates, a CIA cover. She wasn't telling her neighbors and friends that it was the CIA and was only able to tell her husband prior to their marriage because of his high security clearance. So I'd say that she wasn't overtly working for the CIA.MikeD said:
Novak even admitted that when he asked the CIA about her they said not to use her name (which he chose to ignore). He claims that it was a weak request but the CIA claims that it told him that it could cost lives.
Even if she worked for the CIA listed as some sort of analysist but in reality had a much different job more top secret job indicating that fact would also be in violation.
I'm not sure that this has been brought up but Novak and Rove have a history. It was reported in Esquire in 2003 that Karl Rove was fired from the 1992 Bush Presidential campaign for leaking to Robert Novak a damaging story about Rove's direct-mail business competitor Robert Mosbacher Jr.
I wonder who said this....
Let's hang him for treason during wartime. : D
Let's see how far the right is willing to ignore fundamental notions of right and wrong to save their asses. It is funny to me how you can claim to be on a moral high horse and then condone treason for political gain. What makes anyone want to support someone who is willing to sell out those people who risk their life for this country for political gain. That seems despicable.
Can anyone honestly claim that this is acceptable?
P.S. I am also amused by the bs excuses offered. Let's not forget the White House already admitted the bad nature of these acts. After all, before it was revealed that Rove committed them, they intended to fire whoever was responsible and did not try and argue that she was not really a covert operative.
Let's see how far the right is willing to ignore fundamental notions of right and wrong to save their asses. It is funny to me how you can claim to be on a moral high horse and then condone treason for political gain. What makes anyone want to support someone who is willing to sell out those people who risk their life for this country for political gain. That seems despicable.
Can anyone honestly claim that this is acceptable?
P.S. I am also amused by the bs excuses offered. Let's not forget the White House already admitted the bad nature of these acts. After all, before it was revealed that Rove committed them, they intended to fire whoever was responsible and did not try and argue that she was not really a covert operative.
The other thing that would be funny if it were not so damn serious is Rove's denial. He repeatedly stated that he did not know her name and did not leak her name. If he leaked her husband's name, then should his statement be considered a lie considering it is purposefully misleading?
Rove Resigns Over Ignorance of Plame's Name
by Scott Ott
(2005-07-13) -- A tearful Karl Rove waved goodbye to reporters from the White House lawn today before boarding Marine One for his final ride in the presidential helicopter.
Mr. Rove's long political career came to a shameful end when his attorney was forced to admit that in 2003 the White House political advisor didn't even know the name of the wife of former ambassador Joe Wilson, nor what she did in her job at the CIA.
Official Washington has buzzed for weeks over rumors that Mr. Rove was the White House insider who blew CIA Agent Valerie Plame's cover.
But according to a memo written by Newsweek reporter Matthew Cooper, Mr. Rove didn't seem to know Ms. Plame's name, and had only a vague notion of what she did for a living.
The revelation sent shock waves through an administration that had relied heavily on Mr. Rove to make the president look competent.
"I have asked my dear friend Karl Rove to step down, for the good of the nation," said President Bush in a brief statement to reporters. "Karl will be tough to replace. As most of you know, he's the one who makes me look smart, even though I'm of average intelligence, with college grades no better than Sen. John Kerry's."
by Scott Ott
(2005-07-13) -- A tearful Karl Rove waved goodbye to reporters from the White House lawn today before boarding Marine One for his final ride in the presidential helicopter.
Mr. Rove's long political career came to a shameful end when his attorney was forced to admit that in 2003 the White House political advisor didn't even know the name of the wife of former ambassador Joe Wilson, nor what she did in her job at the CIA.
Official Washington has buzzed for weeks over rumors that Mr. Rove was the White House insider who blew CIA Agent Valerie Plame's cover.
But according to a memo written by Newsweek reporter Matthew Cooper, Mr. Rove didn't seem to know Ms. Plame's name, and had only a vague notion of what she did for a living.
The revelation sent shock waves through an administration that had relied heavily on Mr. Rove to make the president look competent.
"I have asked my dear friend Karl Rove to step down, for the good of the nation," said President Bush in a brief statement to reporters. "Karl will be tough to replace. As most of you know, he's the one who makes me look smart, even though I'm of average intelligence, with college grades no better than Sen. John Kerry's."
I think there is a very good possibility that it was a democrat who leaked Plame's name to the reporter which is why she is so damn reluctant to give it up...
In Case You Missed It: Karl Rove, Whistleblower
From The Wall Street Journal
Review & Outlook
July 13, 2005
Democrats and most of the Beltway press corps are baying for Karl Rove's head over his role in exposing a case of CIA nepotism involving Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame. On the contrary, we'd say the White House political guru deserves a prize--perhaps the next iteration of the "Truth-Telling" award that The Nation magazine bestowed upon Mr. Wilson before the Senate Intelligence Committee exposed him as a fraud.
For Mr. Rove is turning out to be the real "whistleblower" in this whole sorry pseudo-scandal. He's the one who warned Time's Matthew Cooper and other reporters to be wary of Mr. Wilson's credibility. He's the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves. In short, Mr. Rove provided important background so Americans could understand that Mr. Wilson wasn't a whistleblower but was a partisan trying to discredit the Iraq War in an election campaign. Thank you, Mr. Rove.
Media chants aside, there's no evidence that Mr. Rove broke any laws in telling reporters that Ms. Plame may have played a role in her husband's selection for a 2002 mission to investigate reports that Iraq was seeking uranium ore in Niger. ... But it appears Mr. Rove didn't even know Ms. Plame's name and had only heard about her work at Langley from other journalists.
On the "no underlying crime" point, moreover, no less than the New York Times and Washington Post now agree. So do the 36 major news organizations that filed a legal brief in March aimed at keeping Mr. Cooper and the New York Times's Judith Miller out of jail. ...
In short, Joe Wilson hadn't told the truth about what he'd discovered in Africa, how he'd discovered it, what he'd told the CIA about it, or even why he was sent on the mission. The media and the Kerry campaign promptly abandoned him, though the former never did give as much prominence to his debunking as they did to his original accusations. But if anyone can remember another public figure so entirely and thoroughly discredited, let us know.
If there's any scandal at all here, it is that this entire episode has been allowed to waste so much government time and media attention, not to mention inspire a "special counsel" probe. ...
From The Wall Street Journal
Review & Outlook
July 13, 2005
Democrats and most of the Beltway press corps are baying for Karl Rove's head over his role in exposing a case of CIA nepotism involving Joe Wilson and his wife, Valerie Plame. On the contrary, we'd say the White House political guru deserves a prize--perhaps the next iteration of the "Truth-Telling" award that The Nation magazine bestowed upon Mr. Wilson before the Senate Intelligence Committee exposed him as a fraud.
For Mr. Rove is turning out to be the real "whistleblower" in this whole sorry pseudo-scandal. He's the one who warned Time's Matthew Cooper and other reporters to be wary of Mr. Wilson's credibility. He's the one who told the press the truth that Mr. Wilson had been recommended for the CIA consulting gig by his wife, not by Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Wilson was asserting on the airwaves. In short, Mr. Rove provided important background so Americans could understand that Mr. Wilson wasn't a whistleblower but was a partisan trying to discredit the Iraq War in an election campaign. Thank you, Mr. Rove.
Media chants aside, there's no evidence that Mr. Rove broke any laws in telling reporters that Ms. Plame may have played a role in her husband's selection for a 2002 mission to investigate reports that Iraq was seeking uranium ore in Niger. ... But it appears Mr. Rove didn't even know Ms. Plame's name and had only heard about her work at Langley from other journalists.
On the "no underlying crime" point, moreover, no less than the New York Times and Washington Post now agree. So do the 36 major news organizations that filed a legal brief in March aimed at keeping Mr. Cooper and the New York Times's Judith Miller out of jail. ...
In short, Joe Wilson hadn't told the truth about what he'd discovered in Africa, how he'd discovered it, what he'd told the CIA about it, or even why he was sent on the mission. The media and the Kerry campaign promptly abandoned him, though the former never did give as much prominence to his debunking as they did to his original accusations. But if anyone can remember another public figure so entirely and thoroughly discredited, let us know.
If there's any scandal at all here, it is that this entire episode has been allowed to waste so much government time and media attention, not to mention inspire a "special counsel" probe. ...
Perhaps we should ask the pope to convey sainthood on Mr. Rove. 
Hey N8, politics aside, do you honestly feel what Mr. Rove did was right?
Hey N8, politics aside, do you honestly feel what Mr. Rove did was right? N8 said:
uh huh. Like the Kenneth Star probe, $80m and 3 (4?) years to determine that the pres did in fact, have sexual relations with that woman. i'm sure the conservative rags like the WSJ were jumping up and down protesting that investigation...N8 said:
Nope, don't see the crime here unless it was something Mr. Wilson did.
dante said:
and lied about it under oath, etc, etc, etc....
lied under oath about having sexual relations with someone vs. outing the name of a covert CIA operative. Hmmmm, which would YOU think is worse (ya, ya, jackbooted republican response is "of course anything to do with sex is far worse", not surprising)?N8 said:
not excusing either, but jeez...
that wasn't the question, he asked if you thought what Rove did was right, not legal...N8 said:
dante said:
... and who did Rove 'out' again..?
Joe Wilson's Top Ten Worst Inaccuracies And Misstatements
1.) Wilson Insisted That The Vice Presidents Office Sent Him To Niger:
Wilson Said He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice Presidents Office. In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheneys office had questions about a particular intelligence report. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice presidents office. (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, What I Didnt Find In Africa, The New York Times, 7/6/03)
Joe Wilson: [W]hat They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libbys Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ... (CNNs Late Edition, 8/3/03)
Vice President Cheney: I Dont Know Joe Wilson. Ive Never Met Joe Wilson. And Joe Wilson - I Dont [Know] Who Sent Joe Wilson. He Never Submitted A Report That I Ever Saw When He Came Back. (NBCs Meet The Press, 9/14/03)
CIA Director George Tenet: In An Effort To Inquire About Certain Reports Involving Niger, CIAs Counter-Proliferation Experts, On Their Own Initiative, Asked An Individual With Ties To The Region To Make A Visit To See What He Could Learn. (Central Intelligence Agency, Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence, Press Release, 7/11/03)
2.) Wilson Claimed The Vice President And Other Senior White House Officials Were Briefed On His Niger Report:
[Wilson] Believed That [His Report] Would Have Been Distributed To The White House And That The Vice President Received A Direct Response To His Question About The Possible Uranium Deal. (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)
The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Reported That The Vice President Was Not Briefed On Wilsons Report. Conclusion 14. The Central Intelligence Agency should have told the Vice President and other senior policymakers that it had sent someone to Niger to look into the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal and it should have briefed the Vice President on the former ambassadors findings. (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)
CIA Director George Tenet: Because This Report, In Our View, Did Not Resolve Whether Iraq Was Or Was Not Seeking Uranium From Abroad, It Was Given A Normal And Wide Distribution, But We Did Not Brief It To The President, Vice-President Or Other Senior Administration Officials. (Central Intelligence Agency, Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence, Press Release, 7/11/03)
3.) Wilson Has Claimed His Niger Report Was Conclusive And Significant
Wilson Claims His Trip Proved There Was Nothing To The Uranium Allegations. I knew that [Dr. Rice] had fundamentally misstated the facts. In fact, she had lied about it. I had gone out and I had undertaken this study. I had come back and said that this was not feasible. This government knew that there was nothing to these allegations. (NBCs, Meet The Press, 5/2/04)
Officials Said Evidence In Wilsons Niger Report Was Thin And His Homework Was Shoddy. (Michael Duffy, Leaking With A Vengeance, Time, 10/13/03)
Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: Conclusion 13. The Report On The Former Ambassadors Trip To Niger, Disseminated In March 2002, Did Not Change Any Analysts Assessments Of The Iraq-Niger Uranium Deal. (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)For Most Analysts, The Information In The Report Lent More Credibility To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Report On The Uranium Deal, But State Department Bureau Of Intelligence And Research (INR) Analysts Believed That The Report Supported Their Assessments That Niger Was Unlikely To Be Willing Or Able To Sell Uranium. (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)
CIA Said Wilsons Findings Did Not Resolve The Issue. Because [Wilsons] report, in our view, did not resolve whether Iraq was or was not seeking uranium from abroad, it was given a normal and wide distribution, but we did not brief it to the president, vice president or other senior administration officials. We also had to consider that the former Nigerien officials knew that what they were saying would reach the U.S. government and that this might have influenced what they said. (Central Intelligence Agency, Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence, Press Release 7/11/03)
The Butler Report Claimed That The Presidents State Of the Union Statement On Uranium From Africa, Was Well-Founded. We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Governments dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded. By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bushs State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that: The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. was well-founded. (The Rt. Hon. The Lord Butler Of Brockwell, Review Of Intelligence, On Weapons Of Mass Destruction, 7/14/04)
4.) Wilson Denied His Wife Suggested He Travel To Niger In 2002:
Wilson Claimed His Wife Did Not Suggest He Travel To Niger To Investigate Reports Of Uranium Deal; Instead, Wilson Claims It Came Out Of Meeting With CIA. CNNs Wolf Blitzer: Among other things, you had always said, always maintained, still maintain your wife, Valerie Plame, a CIA officer, had nothing to do with the decision to send to you Niger to inspect reports that uranium might be sold from Niger to Iraq. Did Valerie Plame, your wife, come up with the idea to send you to Niger? Joe Wilson: No. My wife served as a conduit, as I put in my book. When her supervisors asked her to contact me for the purposes of coming into the CIA to discuss all the issues surrounding this allegation of Niger selling uranium to Iraq. (CNNs Late Edition, 7/18/04)
But Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Received Not Only Testimony But Actual Documentation Indicating Wilsons Wife Proposed Him For Trip. Some CPD, [CIA Counterproliferation Division] officials could not recall how the office decided to contact the former ambassador, however, interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD employee, suggested his name for the trip. The CPD reports officer told Committee staff that the former ambassadors wife offered up his name and a memorandum to the Deputy Chief of the CPD on February 12, 2002, from the former ambassadors wife says, my husband has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity. (Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq, U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
(more...)
1.) Wilson Insisted That The Vice Presidents Office Sent Him To Niger:
Wilson Said He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice Presidents Office. In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheneys office had questions about a particular intelligence report. The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice presidents office. (Joseph C. Wilson, Op-Ed, What I Didnt Find In Africa, The New York Times, 7/6/03)
Joe Wilson: [W]hat They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libbys Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ... (CNNs Late Edition, 8/3/03)
Vice President Cheney: I Dont Know Joe Wilson. Ive Never Met Joe Wilson. And Joe Wilson - I Dont [Know] Who Sent Joe Wilson. He Never Submitted A Report That I Ever Saw When He Came Back. (NBCs Meet The Press, 9/14/03)
CIA Director George Tenet: In An Effort To Inquire About Certain Reports Involving Niger, CIAs Counter-Proliferation Experts, On Their Own Initiative, Asked An Individual With Ties To The Region To Make A Visit To See What He Could Learn. (Central Intelligence Agency, Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence, Press Release, 7/11/03)
2.) Wilson Claimed The Vice President And Other Senior White House Officials Were Briefed On His Niger Report:
[Wilson] Believed That [His Report] Would Have Been Distributed To The White House And That The Vice President Received A Direct Response To His Question About The Possible Uranium Deal. (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)
The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Reported That The Vice President Was Not Briefed On Wilsons Report. Conclusion 14. The Central Intelligence Agency should have told the Vice President and other senior policymakers that it had sent someone to Niger to look into the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium deal and it should have briefed the Vice President on the former ambassadors findings. (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)
CIA Director George Tenet: Because This Report, In Our View, Did Not Resolve Whether Iraq Was Or Was Not Seeking Uranium From Abroad, It Was Given A Normal And Wide Distribution, But We Did Not Brief It To The President, Vice-President Or Other Senior Administration Officials. (Central Intelligence Agency, Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence, Press Release, 7/11/03)
3.) Wilson Has Claimed His Niger Report Was Conclusive And Significant
Wilson Claims His Trip Proved There Was Nothing To The Uranium Allegations. I knew that [Dr. Rice] had fundamentally misstated the facts. In fact, she had lied about it. I had gone out and I had undertaken this study. I had come back and said that this was not feasible. This government knew that there was nothing to these allegations. (NBCs, Meet The Press, 5/2/04)
Officials Said Evidence In Wilsons Niger Report Was Thin And His Homework Was Shoddy. (Michael Duffy, Leaking With A Vengeance, Time, 10/13/03)
Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: Conclusion 13. The Report On The Former Ambassadors Trip To Niger, Disseminated In March 2002, Did Not Change Any Analysts Assessments Of The Iraq-Niger Uranium Deal. (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)For Most Analysts, The Information In The Report Lent More Credibility To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Report On The Uranium Deal, But State Department Bureau Of Intelligence And Research (INR) Analysts Believed That The Report Supported Their Assessments That Niger Was Unlikely To Be Willing Or Able To Sell Uranium. (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)
CIA Said Wilsons Findings Did Not Resolve The Issue. Because [Wilsons] report, in our view, did not resolve whether Iraq was or was not seeking uranium from abroad, it was given a normal and wide distribution, but we did not brief it to the president, vice president or other senior administration officials. We also had to consider that the former Nigerien officials knew that what they were saying would reach the U.S. government and that this might have influenced what they said. (Central Intelligence Agency, Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence, Press Release 7/11/03)
The Butler Report Claimed That The Presidents State Of the Union Statement On Uranium From Africa, Was Well-Founded. We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Governments dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded. By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bushs State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that: The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. was well-founded. (The Rt. Hon. The Lord Butler Of Brockwell, Review Of Intelligence, On Weapons Of Mass Destruction, 7/14/04)
4.) Wilson Denied His Wife Suggested He Travel To Niger In 2002:
Wilson Claimed His Wife Did Not Suggest He Travel To Niger To Investigate Reports Of Uranium Deal; Instead, Wilson Claims It Came Out Of Meeting With CIA. CNNs Wolf Blitzer: Among other things, you had always said, always maintained, still maintain your wife, Valerie Plame, a CIA officer, had nothing to do with the decision to send to you Niger to inspect reports that uranium might be sold from Niger to Iraq. Did Valerie Plame, your wife, come up with the idea to send you to Niger? Joe Wilson: No. My wife served as a conduit, as I put in my book. When her supervisors asked her to contact me for the purposes of coming into the CIA to discuss all the issues surrounding this allegation of Niger selling uranium to Iraq. (CNNs Late Edition, 7/18/04)
But Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Received Not Only Testimony But Actual Documentation Indicating Wilsons Wife Proposed Him For Trip. Some CPD, [CIA Counterproliferation Division] officials could not recall how the office decided to contact the former ambassador, however, interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD employee, suggested his name for the trip. The CPD reports officer told Committee staff that the former ambassadors wife offered up his name and a memorandum to the Deputy Chief of the CPD on February 12, 2002, from the former ambassadors wife says, my husband has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity. (Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq, U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
(more...)
5.) Wilson Has Claimed His 1999 Trip To Niger Was Not Suggested By His Wife:
Wilson Claims CIA Thought To Ask Him To Make Trip Because He Had Previously Made Trip For Them In 1999, Not Because Of His Wifes Suggestion. CNNs Wolf Blitzer: Who first raised your name, then, based on what you know? Who came up with the idea to send you there? Joe Wilson: The CIA knew my name from a trip, and its in the report, that I had taken in 1999 related to uranium activities but not related to Iraq. I had served for 23 years in government including as Bill Clintons Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council. I had done a lot of work with the Niger government during a period punctuated by a military coup and a subsequent assassination of a president. So I knew all the people there. (CNNs Late Edition, 7/18/04)
In Fact, His Wife Suggested Him For 1999 Trip, As Well. The former ambassador had traveled previously to Niger on the CIAs behalf The former ambassador was selected for the 1999 trip after his wife mentioned to her supervisors that her husband was planning a business trip to Niger in the near future and might be willing to use his contacts in the region (Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq, U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
6.) Wilson Claimed He Was A Victim Of A Partisan Smear Campaign
Joe Wilson: Well, I Dont Know. Obviously, Theres Been This Orchestrated Campaign, This Smear Campaign. I Happen To Think That Its Because The RNC, The Republican National Committees Been Involved In This In A Big Way CNNs Wolf Blitzer: But They Werent Involved In The Senate Intelligence Committee Report. Wilson: No, They Werent. (CNNs Late Edition, 7/18/04)
Senate Intelligence Committee Unanimously Concluded That Wilsons Report Lent More Credibility For Most Analysts To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Reports. Conclusion 13. The report on the former ambassadors trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002, did not change any analysts assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq. (Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq, U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
Members Of The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence That Wrote The Unanimous Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq:
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI)
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR)
Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL)
Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN)
Sen. John Edwards (D-NC)
Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD)
Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS)
Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT)
Sen. Mike DeWine (R-OH)
Sen. Christopher Bond (R-MO)
Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS)
Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME)
Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE)
Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA)
Sen. John Warner (R-VA)
(Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq, U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
7.) A Month Before The Bob Novak And Matthew Cooper Articles Ever Came Out, Wilson Told The Washington Post That Previous Intelligence Reports About Niger Were Based On Forged Documents:
In June Of 2003, Wilson Told The Washington Post The Niger Intelligence Was Based On Documents That Had Clearly Been Forged Because The Dates Were Wrong And The Names Were Wrong. (Susan Schmidt, Plames Input Is Cited On Niger Mission, The Washington Post, 7/10/04)
However, The [Senate Select Committee On Intelligence] Report Said Wilson Provided Misleading Information To The Washington Post Last June [12th, 2003]. (Susan Schmidt, Plames Input Is Cited On Niger Mission, The Washington Post, 7/10/04)
Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: The Former Ambassador Said That He May Have Misspoken To The Reporter When He Said He Concluded The Documents Were Forged. (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)
8.) Wilson Claimed His Book Would Enrich Debate:
NBCs Katie Couric: What Do You Hope The Whole Point Of This Book Will Be? Joe Wilson: Well, I - I Hope, One, It Will Tell - It Tries To Tell An Interesting Story. Two, I Hope That It Enriches The Debate In A Year In Which We Are All Called Upon As Americans To Elect Our Leaders. And Three, That [It] Says That This Is A Great Democracy That Is Worthy Of Our Taking Our Responsibilities As Stewards Seriously. (NBCs Today Show, 5/3/04)
Wilson Admits In His Book That He Had Been Involved In A Little Literary Flair When Talking To Reporters. [Wilson] wrote in his book, he told Committee staff that his assertion may have involved a little literary flair. (Matthew Continetti, A Little Literary Flair The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04)
Wilsons Book The Politics Of Truth: Inside The Lies That Put The White House On Trial And Betrayed My Wifes CIA Identity Has Been Panned In Numerous Reviews For Its Inaccuracies:
On Page One Of Chapter One, He Quotes NBC Talk Show Host Chris Matthews, Who Told Him That, After Mr. Wilson Chose To Go Public: Wilsons Wife Is Fair Game. Later, He Bases His List Of Suspect Leakers On Conversations With Members Of The News Media And A Source Close To The House Judiciary Committee. (Eli Lake, Op-Ed, Dont Quit Your Day Job, Mr. Wilson, New York Post, 5/4/04)
For Example, When Asked How He Knew That The Intelligence Community Had Rejected The Possibility Of A Niger-Iraq Uranium Deal, As He Wrote In His Book, He Told [Senate Intelligence] Committee Staff That His Assertion May Have Involved A Little Literary Flair. (Matthew Continetti, A Little Literary Flair, The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04)
The Boston Globe: In Essence, Much Of Wilsons Book Is An Attempt To Portray The Bush Administration As A Ministry Of Fear Whose Mission In Pursuing War In Iraq Required It To Proclaim A Lie As Truth. (Michael D. Langan, Op-Ed, Truth Makes Much Of Bush Controversy, The Boston Globe, 5/4/04)
Newsweeks Evan Thomas Wrote In The Washington Post: [W]ilsons Claims And Conclusions Are Either Long Hashed Over Or Based On What The Intelligence Business Describes As Rumint, Or Rumor Intelligence. (Evan Thomas, Op-Ed, Indecent Exposure, The Washington Post, 5/16/04)
9.) Wilson Claimed The CIA Provided Him With Information Related To The Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction:
The Former Ambassador Noted That His CIA Contacts Told Him There Were Documents Pertaining To The Alleged Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction And That The Source Of The Information Was The [Redacted] Intelligence Service. (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)
However, The DO [Director Of Operations At The CIA] Reports Officer Told Committee Staff That He Did Not Provide The Former Ambassador With Any Information About The Source Or Details (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)
10.) Wilson Claimed He Is A Non-Partisan Centrist:
Recently, Joe Wilson Refused To Admit He Is A Registered Democrat. NBCs Jamie Gangel: You are a Democrat? Joe Wilson: I exercise my rights as a citizen of this country to participate in the selection of my leaders and I am proud to do so. I did so in the election in 2000 by contributing not just to Al Gore's campaign, but also to the Bush-Cheney campaign. (NBCs Today Show, 7/14/05)
[Wilson] Insist He Remained A Centrist At Heart. (Scott Shane, Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case, The New York Times, 7/5/05)
Joe Wilson Is A Registered Democrat. (District Of Columbia Voter Registrations, Accessed 7/14/05)
Joseph Wilson Has Donated Over $8,000 To Democrats Including $2,000 To John Kerry For President In 2003, $1,000 To Hillary Clintons (D-NY) HILLPAC In 2002 And $3,000 To Al Gore In 1999. (The Center For Responsive Politics Website, www.opensecrets.org, Accessed 7/12/05)
Wilson Endorsed John Kerry For President In October 2003 And Advised The Kerry Campaign. (David Tirrell-Wysocki, Former Ambassador Wilson Endorses Kerry In Presidential Race, The Associated Press, 10/23/03)
[Wilson] Admits It Will Be A Cold Day In Hell Before I Vote For A Republican, Even For Dog Catcher. (Scott Shane, Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case, The New York Times, 7/5/05)
Wilson Claims CIA Thought To Ask Him To Make Trip Because He Had Previously Made Trip For Them In 1999, Not Because Of His Wifes Suggestion. CNNs Wolf Blitzer: Who first raised your name, then, based on what you know? Who came up with the idea to send you there? Joe Wilson: The CIA knew my name from a trip, and its in the report, that I had taken in 1999 related to uranium activities but not related to Iraq. I had served for 23 years in government including as Bill Clintons Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council. I had done a lot of work with the Niger government during a period punctuated by a military coup and a subsequent assassination of a president. So I knew all the people there. (CNNs Late Edition, 7/18/04)
In Fact, His Wife Suggested Him For 1999 Trip, As Well. The former ambassador had traveled previously to Niger on the CIAs behalf The former ambassador was selected for the 1999 trip after his wife mentioned to her supervisors that her husband was planning a business trip to Niger in the near future and might be willing to use his contacts in the region (Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq, U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
6.) Wilson Claimed He Was A Victim Of A Partisan Smear Campaign
Joe Wilson: Well, I Dont Know. Obviously, Theres Been This Orchestrated Campaign, This Smear Campaign. I Happen To Think That Its Because The RNC, The Republican National Committees Been Involved In This In A Big Way CNNs Wolf Blitzer: But They Werent Involved In The Senate Intelligence Committee Report. Wilson: No, They Werent. (CNNs Late Edition, 7/18/04)
Senate Intelligence Committee Unanimously Concluded That Wilsons Report Lent More Credibility For Most Analysts To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Reports. Conclusion 13. The report on the former ambassadors trip to Niger, disseminated in March 2002, did not change any analysts assessments of the Iraq-Niger uranium deal. For most analysts, the information in the report lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal, but the State Department Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) analysts believed that the report supported their assessment that Niger was unlikely to be willing or able to sell uranium to Iraq. (Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq, U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
Members Of The Senate Select Committee On Intelligence That Wrote The Unanimous Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq:
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sen. Carl Levin (D-MI)
Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR)
Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL)
Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN)
Sen. John Edwards (D-NC)
Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-MD)
Sen. Pat Roberts (R-KS)
Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT)
Sen. Mike DeWine (R-OH)
Sen. Christopher Bond (R-MO)
Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS)
Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME)
Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE)
Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA)
Sen. John Warner (R-VA)
(Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq, U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)
7.) A Month Before The Bob Novak And Matthew Cooper Articles Ever Came Out, Wilson Told The Washington Post That Previous Intelligence Reports About Niger Were Based On Forged Documents:
In June Of 2003, Wilson Told The Washington Post The Niger Intelligence Was Based On Documents That Had Clearly Been Forged Because The Dates Were Wrong And The Names Were Wrong. (Susan Schmidt, Plames Input Is Cited On Niger Mission, The Washington Post, 7/10/04)
However, The [Senate Select Committee On Intelligence] Report Said Wilson Provided Misleading Information To The Washington Post Last June [12th, 2003]. (Susan Schmidt, Plames Input Is Cited On Niger Mission, The Washington Post, 7/10/04)
Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: The Former Ambassador Said That He May Have Misspoken To The Reporter When He Said He Concluded The Documents Were Forged. (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)
8.) Wilson Claimed His Book Would Enrich Debate:
NBCs Katie Couric: What Do You Hope The Whole Point Of This Book Will Be? Joe Wilson: Well, I - I Hope, One, It Will Tell - It Tries To Tell An Interesting Story. Two, I Hope That It Enriches The Debate In A Year In Which We Are All Called Upon As Americans To Elect Our Leaders. And Three, That [It] Says That This Is A Great Democracy That Is Worthy Of Our Taking Our Responsibilities As Stewards Seriously. (NBCs Today Show, 5/3/04)
Wilson Admits In His Book That He Had Been Involved In A Little Literary Flair When Talking To Reporters. [Wilson] wrote in his book, he told Committee staff that his assertion may have involved a little literary flair. (Matthew Continetti, A Little Literary Flair The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04)
Wilsons Book The Politics Of Truth: Inside The Lies That Put The White House On Trial And Betrayed My Wifes CIA Identity Has Been Panned In Numerous Reviews For Its Inaccuracies:
On Page One Of Chapter One, He Quotes NBC Talk Show Host Chris Matthews, Who Told Him That, After Mr. Wilson Chose To Go Public: Wilsons Wife Is Fair Game. Later, He Bases His List Of Suspect Leakers On Conversations With Members Of The News Media And A Source Close To The House Judiciary Committee. (Eli Lake, Op-Ed, Dont Quit Your Day Job, Mr. Wilson, New York Post, 5/4/04)
For Example, When Asked How He Knew That The Intelligence Community Had Rejected The Possibility Of A Niger-Iraq Uranium Deal, As He Wrote In His Book, He Told [Senate Intelligence] Committee Staff That His Assertion May Have Involved A Little Literary Flair. (Matthew Continetti, A Little Literary Flair, The Weekly Standard, 7/26/04)
The Boston Globe: In Essence, Much Of Wilsons Book Is An Attempt To Portray The Bush Administration As A Ministry Of Fear Whose Mission In Pursuing War In Iraq Required It To Proclaim A Lie As Truth. (Michael D. Langan, Op-Ed, Truth Makes Much Of Bush Controversy, The Boston Globe, 5/4/04)
Newsweeks Evan Thomas Wrote In The Washington Post: [W]ilsons Claims And Conclusions Are Either Long Hashed Over Or Based On What The Intelligence Business Describes As Rumint, Or Rumor Intelligence. (Evan Thomas, Op-Ed, Indecent Exposure, The Washington Post, 5/16/04)
9.) Wilson Claimed The CIA Provided Him With Information Related To The Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction:
The Former Ambassador Noted That His CIA Contacts Told Him There Were Documents Pertaining To The Alleged Iraq-Niger Uranium Transaction And That The Source Of The Information Was The [Redacted] Intelligence Service. (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)
However, The DO [Director Of Operations At The CIA] Reports Officer Told Committee Staff That He Did Not Provide The Former Ambassador With Any Information About The Source Or Details (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, Report On The U.S. Intelligence Communitys Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)
10.) Wilson Claimed He Is A Non-Partisan Centrist:
Recently, Joe Wilson Refused To Admit He Is A Registered Democrat. NBCs Jamie Gangel: You are a Democrat? Joe Wilson: I exercise my rights as a citizen of this country to participate in the selection of my leaders and I am proud to do so. I did so in the election in 2000 by contributing not just to Al Gore's campaign, but also to the Bush-Cheney campaign. (NBCs Today Show, 7/14/05)
[Wilson] Insist
Joe Wilson Is A Registered Democrat. (District Of Columbia Voter Registrations, Accessed 7/14/05)
Joseph Wilson Has Donated Over $8,000 To Democrats Including $2,000 To John Kerry For President In 2003, $1,000 To Hillary Clintons (D-NY) HILLPAC In 2002 And $3,000 To Al Gore In 1999. (The Center For Responsive Politics Website, www.opensecrets.org, Accessed 7/12/05)
Wilson Endorsed John Kerry For President In October 2003 And Advised The Kerry Campaign. (David Tirrell-Wysocki, Former Ambassador Wilson Endorses Kerry In Presidential Race, The Associated Press, 10/23/03)
[Wilson] Admits It Will Be A Cold Day In Hell Before I Vote For A Republican, Even For Dog Catcher. (Scott Shane, Private Spy And Public Spouse Live At Center Of Leak Case, The New York Times, 7/5/05)
1) whoever wrote those "summaries" or whatever that drivel should be properly classifed as is severely lacking in capitalization skills. Every Word Should Not Be Capitalized. (yes, i don't capitalize when writing for this audience. bite me.)
2) several paragraphs are repeated verbatim.
3) there is much "artistic license" in the summary points vs. the material supposedly backing it up. for example, stating that "wilson claimed that the vp" had been briefed is significantly different than "wilson believed that the report would have been distributed to the vp". besides, monkey-no-see is no excuse for cheney.
4) even assuming the following quote is not falsified, which i wouldn't put past any self-disrespecting neocon kowtower these days, it only indicates that there was internal debate over the validity of the niger uranium claim, and perhaps that the cia analysts are afraid to go against their hand-picked chief:
2) several paragraphs are repeated verbatim.
3) there is much "artistic license" in the summary points vs. the material supposedly backing it up. for example, stating that "wilson claimed that the vp" had been briefed is significantly different than "wilson believed that the report would have been distributed to the vp". besides, monkey-no-see is no excuse for cheney.
4) even assuming the following quote is not falsified, which i wouldn't put past any self-disrespecting neocon kowtower these days, it only indicates that there was internal debate over the validity of the niger uranium claim, and perhaps that the cia analysts are afraid to go against their hand-picked chief:
Hey N8,
you seem to skip the biggest question. Do you think what Karl Rove did was right? Stop posting this drivel and take a stand.
you seem to skip the biggest question. Do you think what Karl Rove did was right? Stop posting this drivel and take a stand.
You're the Corky of the political forum.N8 said:
You don't come around these parts too often, d'ya stranger?the law said:
do forgive n8 for not preserving the fontenization of the list, as found on gop.com. why presentation would matter over substance is beyond me. do explain if you feel the need.Toshi said:
redundancy of "repeated verbatim" aside, what paragraphs were repeated? i see sentences within 2 paragraphs that were repeated, as they were germaine to their listing. more misdirection?Toshi said:
since you are loathe to artistic license, i look forward to your keen assessment of chang's posts re: cia leak Q&A, & the press pool feeding frenzy, which certainly were bleeding with artistic license.Toshi said:
then you must hold the same position about sting operations that catch would-be child molesters, too, eh?Toshi said:
finally, i've reviewed various threads wrt high ranking officials abusing their positions & access to classified information in order to gain political advantage at the cost of nat'l security, and the one question i have for you is: do you know who sandy berger is?
You mean Sandy "OOps, the documents accidently fell into my pants" Berger??$tinkle said:
ink: