[-BB-]

Health costs are the number one reason for personal bankruptcy in the US. This, along with insurance companies forcing suits, and the small number of high-profile ridiculous greed-driven lawsuits

Person gets injured... Medical costs are VERY high due to cost of insurance... Can't afford the costs, and relies on Insurance. Insurance Company then SUES to get their $$$. Result of the suit is higher costs for medical. Can't afford the costs, and relies on Insurance. Insurance Company then SUES to get their $$$. Result of the suit is higher costs for medical. Can't afford the costs, and relies on Insurance. Insurance Company then SUES to get their $$$. Result of the suit is higher costs for medical. Can't afford the costs, and relies on Insurance. Insurance Company then SUES to get their $$$. Result of the suit is higher costs for medical. Can't afford teh costs, and relies on Insurance. Insurance Company then SUES to get their $$$. Result of the suit is higher costs for medical.

WHEN WILL IT ALL STOP!!!!

 

[oly]

The idea of moving to Vancouver had left my thoughts...this brought it back...

YOu know you want to, plus you could come ride in our sucky state with no lift access......

 

[SoCalsurfer]

How about this (I posted the same on another thread)

The will allow XC bikes on the lifts...Will my Straight 6 pass as an XC? I'm sure it will, and I can fly down the trails on that one, or will they actually "destroy" close the trails in question?

So what makes a bike XC?

 

[-BB-]

How about this (I posted the same on another thread)

The will allow XC bikes on the lifts...Will my Straight 6 pass as an XC? I'm sure it will, and I can fly down the trails on that one, or will they actually "destroy" close the trails in question?

So what makes a bike XC?

a Scale....

a 35lb bike limit (was suggested above)

 

[punkassean]

Even Nico's lightest DH bikes were like 36 or so...

People are going to have to get tricky to work around this BS.

 

[SoCalsurfer]

a Scale....

a 35lb bike limit (was suggested above)

How convenient my bike weighs 34 pounds......And I would suggeset NOT bringing your full face and body armor, if you wanna sneak thru

 

[TheInedibleHulk]

Person gets injured... Medical costs are VERY high due to cost of insurance... Can't afford the costs, and relies on Insurance. Insurance Company then SUES to get their $$$. Result of the suit is higher costs for medical. Can't afford the costs, and relies on Insurance. Insurance Company then SUES to get their $$$. Result of the suit is higher costs for medical. Can't afford the costs, and relies on Insurance. Insurance Company then SUES to get their $$$.
WHEN WILL IT ALL STOP!!!!

You make a good point, and when it comes to liability woes, race promoters and resorts have nothing to worry about compared to virtually anyone in the medical profession. Virtually every doctor in practice for any amount of time has had at least one suit brought against them. My father was sued for giving someone an anesthetic they turned out to be allergic to. They had a reaction, the problem was recognized immediately and dealt with, and the patient had no lasting ill effects. Fortunately the suit was thrown out, but it still costs a ridiculous amount just to pay the lawyer long enough to get hte suit thrown out. My orthopedic surgeon back home who is a friend of my fathers and a hell of a nice guy was sued after performing surgery on a guys shoulder. The patient claimed that after the sugery he had some very nonspecific health problems that he tried to blame on the surgery. The man was diabetic, had a very unhealthy lifestyle, and his probelms couldnt possibly have been related to the sugery any more than a flat tire could be related to a fork rebuild. But you can get an "expert" to claim just about anything, and its left up to a jury or ignorant shmucks to decide. How can a jury of people with no medical knowledge make an intelligent decision in a malpractice case? The answer is they cant, it comes down to a competition of lawyering and emotional manipulation. In the same way, if this case with Brian goes to trial, it will be decided by a bunch of people who dont even know what a downhill bike is and have no concept of the risks related to the sport. They will hear "paralyzed for life" and "rebar in the course" and immediately favor the "victim".

 

[Slugman]

Oh, you have no idea how true this is. We're already making plans to lighten up a few bikes...

Just rig up a nice DH hardtail - they come in light(er) and might pass as XC

And I would suggeset NOT bringing your full face and body armor, if you wanna sneak thru

The irony here being that you are then more likely to be injured, and sue them... :evil:

 

[BurlyShirley]

LMAO at you people.

"Screw the guy that got paralyzed from the neck down. We want to ride our DH bikes"

 

[dhjill]

LMAO at you people.

"Screw the guy that got paralyzed from the neck down. We want to ride our DH bikes"

That's not the point. I don't think anyone here is so insensitive that they don't give a crap about the guy. The issue is that he injured himself participating in an inherently dangerous sport...and now he's asking someone else to pay for it.

 

[MikeD]

LMAO at you people.

"Screw the guy that got paralyzed from the neck down. We want to ride our DH bikes"

You're such a troll, O he of the party of "individual responsibility and and end to frivolous lawsuits!"

You're seen an outpouring of support for any and all injuries and deaths on this board, to the extent of people giving money to people the don't even know...but not one of the injured parties has ever done anything to threaten OUR access to the sport we love.

Like I said, his suit may be 100% genuine, or at least necessary. I'm going to wait to pass judgement, and even then 1) I may not ever know the entire set of facts and 2) my opinion means jack in any and all cases.

Until then, I will bitch on the Internet.

MD

 

[BMXman]

I see no one has responded to spomers question. I would be more than willing to try and help the siuation I just need more info....oh and yes I have an insane amount of insurance coverage becasue I do participate in dangerous activities...I think they shouldn't even allow people to participate in dangerous sports without their own insurance coverage.....D

 

[ridecruz88]

why'd they get sued?

 

[1soulrider]

Sky high medical cost lead to ridiculous insurance premiums in turn causing businesses to be unable to offer otherwise profitable services. If we had national healthcare this would not be an issue.

 

[MikeD]

why'd they get sued?

There's 15 pages of speculation here...read it and weep...

MD

 

[Transcend]

I posted an update on Transcend. Pat Follett of team big bear emailed me with some more info. It is basically a 25 million dollar lawsuit...sorry but that doesn't "cover medical costs". That is greed, pure and simple. Whether it is the rider or his insurance company or a combo of the 2, i am not sure and Pat didn't say.

They have spend 10s of 1000s already on defence, and the mountain simply cant afford to justify the expenses or defending itself or its liability due to this in the future. They have shareholders they are responsible to.

 

[BurlyShirley]

I posted an update on Transcend. Pat Follett of team big bear emailed me with some more info. It is basically a 25 million dollar lawsuit...sorry but that doesn't "cover medical costs". That is greed, pure and simple.

Not saying I back this guy, but you're writing it off as greed a little quick dont you think? I mean, apart from his medical costs, he also will never be able to work again being paralyzed. Plus the fact that in most suits, you aim high and then generally settle for something significantly lower, right?

I dont know the situation, but like I said, alot of you guys are jumping the gun to demonize this fellow IMO.

 

[Transcend]

Not saying I back this guy, but you're writing it off as greed a little quick dont you think? I mean, apart from his medical costs, he also will never be able to work again being paralyzed. Plus the fact that in most suits, you aim high and then generally settle for something significantly lower, right?

I dont know the situation, but like I said, alot of you guys are jumping the gun to demonize this fellow IMO.

dude, he crashed in a race. He clipped a course marker, something we have probably all done. He got hurt, thats life. Ya it sucks, and its a pretty bad injury, i agree, but it doesn't warrant a 25 million dollar lawsuit. IT WAS HIS FAULT. Take some responsibility for your actions, seriously.

I crashed in a rock garden at mt snow, and blew apart my wrist. I couldnt work for 3 months as i was working as a ski tech at the time. Should I sue mt snow, norba and the promoter? Hell no, i was a dumbass and crashed.

 

[Jm_]

Hmmmmm, guilty as charged.....

Excerpts from the Velo News article:

"Kun also pointed to the number of illegal trails being built on the mountain, which he said could be almost exclusively pinned on the downhill/freeride set. "

No way dude, I saw roadies illegally laying down asphalt last night there!

 

[Ridemonkey]

Not saying I back this guy, but you're writing it off as greed a little quick dont you think? I mean, apart from his medical costs, he also will never be able to work again being paralyzed. Plus the fact that in most suits, you aim high and then generally settle for something significantly lower, right?

I dont know the situation, but like I said, alot of you guys are jumping the gun to demonize this fellow IMO.

Sucks he got hurt but why should Big Bear pay for it?

 

[BurlyShirley]

dude, he crashed in a race. He clipped a course marker, something we have probably all done. He got hurt, thats life. Ya it sucks, and its a pretty bad injury, i agree, but it doesn't warrant a 25 million dollar lawsuit. IT WAS HIS FAULT. Take some responsibility for your actions, seriously.

If it turns out the be that cut and dry, then I agree, but if he is being forced to sue or have his medical costs not covered or something similar, you cant really fault the guy. Or, you can, but you know deep down you'd do the same.

 

[mack]

i think most of us deep down would probably do the same. Some dude did a study, where he sold bagles based on the honor system to big firms in new york. Well, turns out 70% of the people stoll stuff, and those are high paid dudes. I think it was in Scientific American.

So i guess, humans in general are greedy, face it.

 

[Slacker]

Why not start a BB fund to held them defend this evil lawsuit?

Meanwhile pray that it will reopen.

BTW, isn't this going to be a huge impact on Turner, Chumba Wumba, Marz... etc. Dang, Socal is the capitol of DH manufacturing.

Man, I can barely even think... I can't believe I just built my dream ($6000) DH rig and this happens. CO, here I come!

 

[Slacker]

hmm, i read this entire thread, and still can't understand how you can sue when you've signed a release. on the form im know there's something that says "resort/promoter/whoever holds no responsibility for personal injury, paralysis or even death". now when i sign that, i agreed to the terms on the sheet-just like the paper says below the line where you sign it. i just can't understand how you can sue over this. someone with a law degree please fill me in.

The Waiver/Release is their relief from your own stupidity. It doesn't void their liability from gross negligence.The big loophole here is, no matter who's liable, big dollars have to be doled out just to defend a claim.


hehehe... I almost sound like a lawyer bastard

 

[Transcend]

Burley - i can see suuing for medical costs, it you are being forced to by the a completely retarded insurance company - but even then 25 million is beyond excessive

Slacker - don;t bother going to Co for DH. They closed up most DH trails ages ago.

 

[1000-Oaks]

Sky high medical cost lead to ridiculous insurance premiums in turn causing businesses to be unable to offer otherwise profitable services. If we had national healthcare this would not be an issue.

If we had national healthcare we'd be like Europe: super-high unemployement, over 50% of your income would go to taxes, and if you did have a job you'd buy your own personal health insurance (using what little money you have left) because the national care is so lousy that no one with a job uses it.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Burley - i can see suuing for medical costs, it you are being forced to by the a completely retarded insurance company - but even then 25 million is beyond excessive

Is it? How bad is his damage? What surgeries does he need and how many? How much do they cost and how long will the rehab be? Also, remember, most suits aim high and generally settle for less.

 

[1soulrider]

If we had national healthcare we'd be like Europe: super-high unemployement, over 50% of your income would go to taxes, and if you did have a job you'd buy your own personal health insurance (using what little money you have left) because the national care is so lousy that no one with a job uses it.

B.S.
We need to rethink the way our tax dollars are wasted, not resort to lame excuses. Our government is here to serve us, not the other way around.

 

[Slacker]

Slacker - don;t bother going to Co for DH. They closed up most DH trails ages ago.

Screw this, I'm getting a sex change operation and going into extreme synchronized swimming!!!

 

[Ciaran]

Is it? How bad is his damage? What surgeries does he need and how many? How much do they cost and how long will the rehab be? Also, remember, most suits aim high and generally settle for less.

I once worked as a live in aid for a quadriplegic guy. That said...

It is HELLA EXPENSIVE to be crippled. Especially a quad. A lifetime of fulltime live-in nursing care, wheelchairs, weekly doc visits, medication, medical equipment, etc. And this is all in addition to your normal bills such as rent, heat, water, etc. Not to mention the fact that you can't feel Mr. Happy anymore. And your life expectancy is shortened.

Rehab takes from a few months to a year or so... depends on your body. He'll probably have 1 - 4 surgeries...

While I am NOT defending this guy or the insurance company, I can see why they are going for such a large initial sum. You shoot high and accept low. Hoping that you will get enough to pay for living for the rest of your life.

Being crippled really, really sucks. I hope the dude recovers some functionality and feeling in his hands at least.

And I hope that somehow, someway we will all be sitting on a lift going up to ride next summer!

 

[Skookum]

If it turns out the be that cut and dry, then I agree, but if he is being forced to sue or have his medical costs not covered or something similar, you cant really fault the guy. Or, you can, but you know deep down you'd do the same.

i think everyone here would like to think that they wouldn't. it's a tough situation, certainly i'm with the majority in thinking i wouldn't take the low road and have others pay for my decisions. However trying to be empathic, living a life of complete disability and the massive cost from it all, who knows what decisions one would really make when left with hardly any options to choose.
i'd like to wave my flag and say i never even thought about suing from my bike injury (even though i really had no one to sue anyways.) but i had the prospect of being dependant as soon as i recovered. This guy will NEVER recover.....
This shouldn't all be pinned on this guy, imperfections seem to swirl around the whole deal.

Is this regarding the human Lawndart jumps TBB put in? They don't have a clue how to make a jump, but is suing the answer?

TBB does very little in the way of decent construction and doesn't seem to even listen to the DH riders ideas either, that does piss me off about them.

Being all the way up here in Seattle i've heard similiar gripes from a few pals that raced there. Something about jumps not being set up correctly.... have you shootin in with too much speed....

It sucks that BB is gone, and the lawsuit and insurance issues are BS! But we are self defeating group... we do things that will hurt us and break our stuff, and then get mad when it happens. We ride off the approved trails and then get pissed when an area gets shut down. We'll spend thousands of dollars on equipment, but we have no pull in the community b/c no one will put up the $$$ to fight for us. We’ll spend hours building on trails, but rarely show up to land management meeting until it’s too late... if we don’t ALL change out behavior (which only some have), we’re going to have to choose a new sport.

A community in transition, it seems like the reality is everything is stacked against Downhilling/Freeride to really exist, which i think is unfair. But i think it more appropriate to be upset at a system that enables (or rather forces) situations like this.
Very strange as well since Slugmans comments lead to an air of irresponsibility and not being accountable in terms of representing itself well in the eyes of the forest dept and local community. And yet here the biking community insists it upon this guy(c'mon suck it up, be accountable, don't sue), since it takes away from their recreation.
Not a judgement just observations really....

Yes it would seem this case is the straw that broke the camels back, but someday maybe we'll learn there's really no such thing as a "free-ride"....




Ideally

 

[Damn True]

The whole thing seems odd to me. Brian was a Union Sheetmetal Worker (or electrician.....I don't recall) seems like his Union Insurance should have covered everything.

 

[Skookum]

The whole thing seems odd to me. Brian was a Union Sheetmetal Worker (or electrician.....I don't recall) seems like his Union Insurance should have covered everything.

You have to keep working into it or it will lapse. At least that's how it is with mine. Probably covered much of the initial cost.

 

[drc]

Hi, first post

This whole mess just highlights why tort reform is so badly needed in our country. Face it, our country is full of people who will live "fast & recklessly" until something bad happens. When it comes time to face the consequences of their choices its ALWAY$ someone else's fault.

Summit is a lost cause.... they have made their decision and though it is really disappointing, it makes sense as a business decision. That decision probably will not change, regardless of any of our pleas, protests, donations, etc, until the legal climate of our state & country has significantly changed. The thing we have to fear the most is the ripple effect. No dout, insurance rates will rise which at best will result in race fees going up. At worst, many resort owners & race promoters may follow SS and decide that DH racing is not profitable enough to justify the liability exposure.

The $25M number is most likely a combination of medical damages, pain & suffering, lost wages/livelyhood as well as punitive. In other words, they are not just trying to re-coup the immediate costs of the surgery & rehab but also trying to project the cost of care + lost income for the injured racer for the rest of his life. I don't think that state-run health care would have prevented this lawsuit from being filed. How many racers carry significant death/disability insurance???

If you want to do something, then push our elected legislators to enact meaningful tort reforms at both the state & national level rather than debating gay marriage or driver's licenses for illegals.

Here are some ideas:

Loser pays: If you bring a lawsuit and you lose, you pay the other party's legal expenses. Currently there is no penalty for filing a baseless lawsuit. The cost to defend yourself against such a suit can often exceed the cost of settling out of court even if you know you can win. These settlements are paid by insurance thus driving up the rates. If the person suing you has to pay your attorney fees if they lose, less frivolous suits will be brought.

Contingency Fee restrictions: If I want to sue someone, I can hire a lawyer for no $$ up front; instead they'll take 20-30% of the awarded/settled amount. This is bad for two reasons. First, the suing attorney has a direct interest in the settlement award... the more they can win, the more they can take home ($25M = $8M payday for the attorney). Second, the suing party again has no risk if they lose the suit... they owe their attorney nothing! Now if you're getting sued, you have to retain an attorney and pay them by the hour. Big difference, hence the desire to settle early to minimize your own legal costs. (again this goes away if the loser is force to pay). The maxium allow able contingency fee should be limited to 5-15% or capped at a certain $$ amount (say $500K-$1 M)

Punitive Damage Limitations: Punitive damages are meant to punish the offending party for doing something grossly wrong (such as knowingly concealing a defect). They are not meant to be a windfall for the suing party and their attorney. Punitive damage judgments should not be subject to contingency fees or be paid to the suing party. Instead, they should be paid to a charity or non-profit group. In this particular case, any punitive damages should go to further spinal cord injury research. (discretion should be left up to the judge)

Three-strikes style system for lawyers: There is currently no punishment for lawyers who repeatedly file frivolous claims. If a judge determines a case to be baseless and tosses it, the lawyer who brought the case should get a "strike". Any lawyer who acquires 3 strikes should be permanently dis-bared. (Florida just passed a similar system for Doctors and mal-practice).

Anyways, those are just my thoughts on the matter. I will miss racing/riding in Big Bear though most of the "interesting" trails were off mountain and are still accessible via shuttle.... but that would probably really tick-off the forest service then.... I do hope that someone else (southridge??) can get a summer race series going to offset the loss of big bear. This actually could be an opportunity for a new promoter/venue to step in.

drc

 

[the mtn man]

Anybody else heard that Snow Summit is getting sued and will not have any Downhill races next year. This is really going to suck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Roger[/QUOTE

holy sh*t i was about to start there am cup races next season, but now...

 

[meatboot]

doesn't this board have a politics forum?

 

[Mani_UT]

If we had national healthcare we'd be like Europe: super-high unemployement, over 50% of your income would go to taxes, and if you did have a job you'd buy your own personal health insurance (using what little money you have left) because the national care is so lousy that no one with a job uses it.

Haha never lived in Europe did you? Lot of things suck in Europe. The Healthcare system is not one of them.
Also add the people in US jails to the US enumployment number and you will see that all of the sudden the numbers are very comparable.. May be if Europe was giving 55 years sentences to people who sold some weed the unemployment numbers would be low too.

 

[Stiff]

If we had national healthcare we'd be like Europe: super-high unemployement, over 50% of your income would go to taxes, and if you did have a job you'd buy your own personal health insurance (using what little money you have left) because the national care is so lousy that no one with a job uses it.

Ask a good sample of Canadian and Kiwi brothers how they like their systems - national health insurance in Canada and accident insurance in Kiwiland. Both very popular and both reduce the drag on GNP and prevent personal bankruptcies and allow entrepreneurs to risk more capital. Not to mention the issue at hand - supercharged negligence lawsuits that make perfect sense in a dog-eat-dog hyperprivate medical market like in the US.

Btw, Germany doesn't have functioning nat'l healthcare and yet has high unemployment. Japan and S Korea do have national healthcare and low unemployment. No correlation. Next question.

 

[TheInedibleHulk]

Slacker - don;t bother going to Co for DH. They closed up most DH trails ages ago.

It's true. We still have our resorts, but most good stuff close to the front range is gone.

 

[Stiff]

doesn't this board have a politics forum?

Trail closures and health care and lawsuits are all inherently political but bikey too.