But, but, but.....it was in the Dirt 100 and Steve Jones likes it.....so it must be very, very good!The 322 is actually an awful bike, with every iteration of the 22x lineup they tried to make them less horribly regressive and then finally when they managed to get it just over dead linear, they went ahead and heavily dropped the main pivot thereby cancelling out any marginal benefits of the new shock rate plus making it pedal terribly.
I'm just not sure those guys have any idea what they're doing, and they're fighting in a market where many brands are getting increasingly more clued up.
How can you tell, reading any of his articles leaves me baffled, as opposed to being informed.But, but, but.....it was in the Dirt 100 and Steve Jones likes it.....so it must be very, very good!
Agreed. I found that after reading a few of his articles it was pretty easy to understand the context of what he was saying. Sure there are better writers and better riders, but not that many that strike the balance that Jones does.Steve Jones is a good rider and tester, and his writing style is such that you have the pleasure of reading the article multiple times to gather his full meaning, enhancing your enjoyment of the magazine...
I'm sure pslide was being ironicAgreed. I found that after reading a few of his articles it was pretty easy to understand the context of what he was saying. Sure there are better writers and better riders, but not that many that strike the balance that Jones does.
Maybe about his writing style, but probably not about the fact that he is a good rider/tester. I honestly don't struggle to get what he is saying and it is usually very nuanced.I'm sure pslide was being ironic
Hey, at least you still got the 'boutique' bamboo builder who makes an alu frame, just to cut it up and throw bamboo TT and DT on it (and then have the nerve to charge you 3k for it)..We have seen the near extinction of "built at home" boutique brands over the past decade, and as a bike geek that kinda sucks.
224 Evo (or whatever it was called) count? If so, yes and it sucked compared to the old Glory I had at the time. Took it down a fairly fast, very rough trail with minimal twist bits and the rear end just seemed to hook up on everything.I think the only people qualified to rip on Orange are the people who rode one of their recent bikes and didn't like it. Anyone? Anyone?
That counts, rip away!224 Evo (or whatever it was called) count?
If you want that just get a nicolai. I know people remember them as overengineered monsters but recent bikes from the kraut company are very nice and imho the way to go if you want something butique and well made. Not to mention they define "custom bike".That counts, rip away!
The latest GT Fury super-duper 2nd place WC overall bike is a SP with no linkage to drive the shock (flat rate).
Orange is awesome because it's a bunch of lads just doing their own thing in a shop out in the Yorkshire countryside, bending sheetmetal without fancy hydroformers, not bothered with the latest trends, making simple, light, stiff, tough bikes. And that last part is actually not easily achieved.
I'm not saying Orange is the best bike, I don't think they are, but I'm sad to see the demise of simple, light, stiff, tough bike because folks want the latest bells and whistles. That's capitalism though, innovate or market to the hipsters or die!
Zerode, Nicolai, Cavalerie. I find all these interesting. And I'm as interested in seeing any new non carbon bike. Material comes second after craftsmanship and design. Carbon might be the best material, but it doesn't mean it's a good bike. Should, but doesn't.Is it only me or outside of carbonz there is nothing interesting in dh bikes outside of carbon that happened in the last 4 years?
Craftsmanship isn't something new. They had well crafted bikes long before I was alive. The Zerode is nice but it doesn't really change the game. Though it's a nice example. Nicolais are just very capable bikes. What's a Cavalerie I have no clue.Zerode, Nicolai, Cavalerie. I find all these interesting. And I'm as interested in seeing any new non carbon bike. Material comes second after craftsmanship and design. Carbon might be the best material, but it doesn't mean it's a good bike. Should, but doesn't.
I like Orange and their ideals. Their little bikes are as predictable as a hardtail, and fun to ride. The fastest bike isn't always the most fun. Look at 29ers for trail riding, fast, but.......
I never really understood why Nicolai bikes had always been mentioned as beeing well engineered. Because they are obviously not (as good as I can judge with my two engineering degrees).
Although they don't have to follow the "KISS" (keep it stupid simple) principle, it is not a sign of well engineered bikes to weld gussets everywhere- not in case of efficient production, and also not in case of frame durability, where every hydroformed tube offers more potential.
If you design a frame, that needs tie rods, you're doing it wrong.
I have to admit, that they build nice looking frames and I appreciate their love to experiment.
I think there are a few, but based on your response to skid you probably wouldn't agree.Is it only me or outside of carbonz there is nothing interesting in dh bikes outside of carbon that happened in the last 4 years?
Cool story. How long does it take to pump grease into a bike with correctly designed pivots? Not long. Unfortunately, your bike has at least, two headset bearings, at least one chainguide bearing, at least two crank bearings, two rear hub bearings plus the freewheel mech bearing, two front hub bearings, two shock bearings, and a few other assorted bearings (bushings are types of bearings). If anything, you'll never be able to ride because your bike is FULL of bearings!!! In reality, most major manufacturers have gotten bearings figured out quite a bit better than years ago, it doesn't cause your bike to be "in the shop" and if this is truly a concern, get something like a DHR with grease-ports. Then you can have your cake and eat it too.Im riding a 224 evo and I really like it.
I realised years ago that I am never going to win races and Im not even close to being talented enough to really eek out the performance difference of a carbon v-10 or turner dhr over the orange single hinge technology.
What I can tell you is I that I don't like working on my bike when Im on holiday with it or on a weekend trip. I want a bike that has 2 bearings and no links. If there is play or slop in my frame it takes me 10 minutes to replace the bearings and it costs me next to nothing. Its mega slack too and has a perfect tt length for me.
If santacruz ever make a super 8 style V-10 I would consider getting one for sure but until I my orange fails Im gonna keep it.
I never really understood why Nicolai bikes had always been mentioned as beeing well engineered. Because they are obviously not (as good as I can judge with my two engineering degrees).
The Orange 22x is not a rising rate single pivot and never has been (I understand you may not be implying that), and even the 322 is barely past the point I would classify as dead linear.The air shock revolution came far too late for Orange to remain relevant.
Hell, most of the top 10 or 5 or whatever were on board rising rate single pivots.
Not really, an idler just allows control over squat curves and pedal feedback. The major problems in that frame are elsewhere - and by the time you fixed them you may as well have designed a new frame or bought one of the many good ones currently available.Bring back the 222 and slap an idler on it would be better start.
I hate this argument. I don't need to ride certain bikes to know I don't want them. Lots of folks here can make an educated guess and be in the ballpark (if not spot on).I think the only people qualified to rip on Orange are the people who rode one of their recent bikes and didn't like it. Anyone? Anyone?