[biggins]

i have always thought that having a race on trail number 9 at brown mountain OHV area woulr be awesome and it could probably be arranged but i think it would be more fun to have a very loose format. The only major difficulty would be the shuttle since it takes a very capable 4x4 to get to the top. #9 is my favorite trail on earth. It rocks every trail i have ever ridden.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

i have always thought that having a race on trail number 9 at brown mountain OHV area woulr be awesome and it could probably be arranged but i think it would be more fun to have a very loose format. The only major difficulty would be the shuttle since it takes a very capable 4x4 to get to the top. #9 is my favorite trail on earth. It rocks every trail i have ever ridden.

What about that goddarned PUDDLE at the very end huh???


I am sure there are more then few people in the area that have stuff like this

or a little bit more effective, but harder to find

Besides if you raced down #9 I guarantee you would get guys complaining that it wasn't "technical" enough. That trail is so butter, something like a Heckler would win that race. Too much pedaling and really fast corners for a heavy DH bike to be an advantage.

 

[profro]

I just can't participate in these discussions anymore.
Every year we have the same thread with the same bull jive, and no solutions.
Its downright tiring.
All this talk about lame the Southeast is is also a load of crap.
I have been lucky enough to ride and race all over the country, and I still feel like we have the best riding around. From Windrock to Pisgah, our area is awesome for riding. Not to mention the fact that we can practically ride year around.
Now, I will admit, When I went to the US Open this year, I saw what DH riding was SUPPOSED to be like. 193 riders in the amatuer class alone.
Great prizes and cash, a super sweet course that everybody could ride but it was hard to ride fast, a VERY well ran event, and last but most importantly, even on race day, there were hundreds of riders there just freeriding which they do every single weekend at Mountain Creek. I was seriously impressed, the same way Profro was when he went to Bootleg.
That said, that fairy tale is simple not a reality around here. Those places have big money and good outside promoters. And those kinds of races are few and far between.
So, you guys can focus on hoping you have a Disney like experience when you show up at a Southeast race if you want to, while you're dreaming of riding through the clouds farting magical pixie dust, I will be racing at some muddy, over ridden, poorly marked, socks for prizes event back here in reality and loving ever minute of it.

The US Open and Bootleg took some risks and they've had huge pay-offs. They aren't part of a series and they do it outside of NORBA. That kind of risk taking is what I was looking for around here. Ben put it best... "risk nothing, gain nothing". Rehashing the same old series is good in a sense that you get to keep racing the same old stuff, but you don't gain awhole lot. Look at Red Bull. I've heard that last year's Rampage was the last. It was a HUGE sucess, why get rid of it? Because Red Bull wants to shake things up and challenege people in new directions. Dropping some events to concentrate efforts on stepping up others is a new challenge and why are we affraid to take that risk?

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

You guys have some of the best riding/accessibility up there. Why not a race down Bennet or something? That is an easy as Pie Shuttle.

Run a Super D race down Trace (all the way) and I will come enter!

What about down Pilot rock?

 

[bizutch]

easy Rob....Sea Otter has been won on a DH bike something like 4-5 years in a row. Peat's Orange, Rennie's Yeti, King's Haro DH...heh heh!!!

I'm all about some DH racing at an ORV park. Try riding Wharrie Hut in Sylva behind Western Carolina's campus. You spent 45-55% of the time in the air! But again, you'd ahve to get shuttled to the top in a 4 wheeler.

I think Britian has the most amazing DH scene on Earth. Look at the helmet cam thread from Ft. William in the DH forum. THere is a video link to a DH that is close to 6 minutes long on there. And the guys don't get to shuttle it...they push. Which is what they do most all of their races.

 

[bizutch]

You guys have some of the best riding/accessibility up there. Why not a race down Bennet or something? That is an easy as Pie Shuttle.

Run a Super D race down Trace (all the way) and I will come enter!

What about down Pilot rock?

Rob, you should know by now that if it says "National Forest" on it and shows up on a topo map, it's a no go for a DH Race. That would be the quickest way to get shut down for life for all MTB riders on all US Forest Service territory....to run a race on a hiker trail in Pisgah, even XC races here don't happen on Forest Service land, excluding the Tsali XC race.

:love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

easy Rob....Sea Otter has been won on a DH bike something like 4-5 years in a row. Peat's Orange, Rennie's Yeti, King's Haro DH...heh heh!!!

I know very little about DH, other then my excursion to SnowShoe, where it was my bike (Heckler, Talas up front) that felt the need for bigger equiptment. (big rocks, studder bumps, log overs) However on Brown #9, that certainly wasn't the case. There isn't anything steep, gnarly, jagged or "big" . Honestly it is like a giant roller coaster.

I'm all about some DH racing at an ORV park. Try riding Wharrie Hut in Sylva behind Western Carolina's campus. You spent 45-55% of the time in the air! But again, you'd ahve to get shuttled to the top in a 4 wheeler.

That place is a goldmind waiting to happen. It has facilities and they already run races there (Hare Scrambles). It is just waiting for someone to step in and put something together. Make the lazy DHers walk up #1

I am kidding, but I only remember a few places going up that would require a "Very capable" 4x4. Is there any other way up other then #1?

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Rob, you should know by now that if it says "National Forest" on it and shows up on a topo map, it's a no go for a DH Race. That would be the quickest way to get shut down for life for all MTB riders on all US Forest Service territory....to run a race on a hiker trail in Pisgah, even XC races here don't happen on Forest Service land, excluding the Tsali XC race.

:love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

I don't know. I always wondered why there wasn't more racing in Pisgah? You never know until you ask.

 

[profro]

I'd love to run a race down Windrock Trail #2 (the jeep road with head high berms). 3.5 mile downhill the whole way. I am thinking that it would take 8 minutes to win that trail. Maybe more???? Unfortunately we can't ride it anymore. Maybe we could arrange something for one weekend?

 

[biggins]

sure you can have a race in national forest ladn butch. the 24 hours of pisgah and the pisgah death march are good examlpes. isnt there a mountain bike race that goes up to mt. mitchell as well?

 

[biggins]

if not a race on trail 9 a race could be held on number 1. number 9 is just too much fun but i have gone down number 1 twice before and it is blazing fast and super sketch in a couple of sections (the 2 sections that would require the capable 4x4) the only problem would be that section that goes uphill.

as far as the enourmous puddle at the end of 9, i would drain it.

 

[spoke80]

I just can't participate in these discussions anymore.
Every year we have the same thread with the same bull jive, and no solutions.
Its downright tiring.
All this talk about lame the Southeast is is also a load of crap.
I have been lucky enough to ride and race all over the country, and I still feel like we have the best riding around. From Windrock to Pisgah, our area is awesome for riding. Not to mention the fact that we can practically ride year around.
Now, I will admit, When I went to the US Open this year, I saw what DH riding was SUPPOSED to be like. 193 riders in the amatuer class alone.
Great prizes and cash, a super sweet course that everybody could ride but it was hard to ride fast, a VERY well ran event, and last but most importantly, even on race day, there were hundreds of riders there just freeriding which they do every single weekend at Mountain Creek. I was seriously impressed, the same way Profro was when he went to Bootleg.
That said, that fairy tale is simple not a reality around here. Those places have big money and good outside promoters. And those kinds of races are few and far between.
So, you guys can focus on hoping you have a Disney like experience when you show up at a Southeast race if you want to, while you're dreaming of riding through the clouds farting magical pixie dust, I will be racing at some muddy, over ridden, poorly marked, socks for prizes event back here in reality and loving ever minute of it.

Right on JR if you want that rock out!

I like to set my goals a tad higher but it all depends on where you get your stoke. Its not about the courses but its about improvement on every level; skillz, venues, and selfishly enough for my own issues. I just can't justify spending the time or money to race that type of event. I would rather hammer nails into Dougs feet or do an XC ride.

And if this discussion is indicative of how everyone feels about racing in this region than I'm out.

 

[Greyhound]

You are exactly right it is a joke!

And your post shows how funny/ridiculous you are comparing Windrock and Snowshoe to Sea Otter.

I think it this same "joke" attitude that keeps this region a waste of time.

Why do you even race?

Awwww......man. Don't be like that. I race to have fun. I thought you may have construed that from my post, but apparently it needed to be written in crayon. I realize your Windrock is the bee's knees of DH. So is Snowshoe....but I never mentioned those venues, did I? Matter of fact, the only thing I mentioned was Wolf, and how much fun I had.....and how I wanted to keep coming back because of the chill attitudes, fun course, and good times. If I'm wrong to be content with that, and it upsets you, then I'm truly sorry that you feel that way.....I don't care for a life-threatning experience on a race course. Am I any less important to the Southeast racing scene than you? I hope that isn't the case.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

if not a race on trail 9 a race could be held on number 1. number 9 is just too much fun but i have gone down number 1 twice before and it is blazing fast and super sketch in a couple of sections (the 2 sections that would require the capable 4x4) the only problem would be that section that goes uphill.

as far as the enourmous puddle at the end of 9, i would drain it.

How would you get up #1, if people are coming down?

Seriously that area would be great for holding a race. Hell hold 2,
A traditional DH going down #1, I don't remember there being much dh as we climbed up it, then a Super D style race down #9. There is lots of pedalingon #9 after you swim out of that last puddle and ride back to the parking area.

You arent doing anything. Go install a lift :nuts:

 

[biggins]

and we wonder why the dh scene in the southeast is not working out. Maybe if people consolidated and quit worrying why the other person races or why they like a course then some shlt would get done that would improve the face of racing on a regional level.

 

[biggins]

How would you get up #1, if people are coming down?

Seriously that area would be great for holding a race. Hell hold 2,
A traditional DH going down #1, I don't remember there being much dh as we climbed up it, then a Super D style race down #9. There is lots of pedalingon #9 after you swim out of that last puddle and ride back to the parking area.

You arent doing anything. Go install a lift :nuts:

the format on number 1 would be 3 or 4 people at atime coming down it because it is so wide. kinda like a 4 mile mtx race.

as far as number 9 goes it cant have that much pedaling in it if i like it as much as do.

as far as the pedaling after the puddle, the race would end right on the other side of the puddle, or maybe right before it. I would try to get access to the gate and be able to drive down that road to the mounds after the puddle.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

the format on number 1 would be 3 or 4 people at atime coming down it because it is so wide. kinda like a 4 mile mtx race.

That would SO be carnage! But really really cool. Start where that trail vered off to the left and it would have a good 1/4 mile of slightly downhill sprint!

as far as number 9 goes it cant have that much pedaling in it if i like it as much as do.

If you were racing down it you would be. I can recall a few places where I pedaled to catch up to you, Yuri and I forget the other guy on the Heckler until whats his name yelled about the broken chain.

It is an awsome trail. Just a cool place all around.

 

[biggins]

That would SO be carnage! But really really cool. Start where that trail vered off to the left and it would have a good 1/4 mile of slightly downhill sprint!



I can recall a few places where I pedaled to catch up to you,
.

thats the beauty, i wasnt pedaling..... :nuts:

yeah a big bike style 4x dh. elimination style.

 

[spoke80]

I mean, we're racing DH in the southeast???!!! We're like the second biggest joke next to the Sea Otter DH course.......and I mean that in a poke-fun-at-yourself way. [/QUOTE]

My bad, I was under the assumption that you were making a generalization about racing in this region. I guess that I missed the implication that Wolf was 2nd biggest joke.

Please don't sit on me Butch! I'm just trying to understand the current mentality.

 

[profro]

Drive nails in my feet? What the? That would hurt.

I'm going to ride you bee-yatchs. :eviltongu

 

[spoke80]

Drive nails in my feet? What the? That would hurt.

I'm going to ride you bee-yatchs. :eviltongu

Not if I drive nails in your feet!

 

[profro]

Not if I drive nails in your feet!

You can try, but you've got to catch me first. Oh wait, that wouldn't be that hard. unless your stuck in knoxville traffic again. :nuts:

 

[spoke80]

You can try, but you've got to catch me first. Oh wait, that wouldn't be that hard. unless your stuck in knoxville traffic again. :nuts:

Hardy-har-har!

Now go and enjoy what I can't!

 

[bradical]

I really hope there will be a maxxis series this year. I want to start getting out to the races to ride well and try and get some good times, but more importantly, to ride at some new places, meet some new riders, and have a good time.

Maybe it's because I haven't raced before/ nor do I usually ride with serious downhillers other than the SEI guys, but I simply cannot figure out why all the bitterness and bitching in this thread...?

 

[Jeremy R]

Hardy-har-har!

Now go and enjoy what I can't!

Which is what? Keeping a derailleur on your bike. :devil:

So, anyway, I am all up for positive change, and would do whatever I can to make it happen. The reason that I am like I am is because I have gotten my hopes up before. That we were gonna solve all the problems around here,
but in the end, its all talk.
And I have seen all the ego problems and everything else associated by it,
year after after year. After a while, you either quit whining and race your bike, or quit all together.
You guys have to ask yourself, what do you want out of this whole thing?
Is it race attendence?
Wolfe is the only place that has ever really gotten that, and that honestly was a surprise. It turns out if you build a fun course, with a fun atmosphere people will show up to ride their bikes. Who knew eh?
And don't even get me started on Windrock. I have said a million times to everybody I know that they should show up and race there. The low turnout there is simply a mystery, as Trail 1 and Snakerock make 2 perfect race courses for their classes.
So, I don't know what the solution is going to be. I will do whatever I can to help, but I am seeing alot of $hit in this thread, but no solutions.

 

[spoke80]

Which is what? Keeping a derailleur on your bike. :devil:

So, anyway, I am all up for positive change, and would do whatever I can to make it happen. The reason that I am like I am is because I have gotten my hopes up before. That we were gonna solve all the problems around here,
but in the end, its all talk.
And I have seen all the ego problems and everything else associated by it,
year after after year. After a while, you either quit whining and race your bike, or quit all together.
You guys have to ask yourself, what do you want out of this whole thing?
Is it race attendence?
Wolfe is the only place that has ever really gotten that, and that honestly was a surprise. It turns out if you build a fun course, with a fun atmosphere people will show up to ride their bikes. Who knew eh?
And don't even get me started on Windrock. I have said a million times to everybody I know that they should show up and race there. The low turnout there is simply a mystery, as Trail 1 and Snakerock make 2 perfect race courses for their classes.
So, I don't know what the solution is going to be. I will do whatever I can to help, but I am seeing alot of $hit in this thread, but no solutions.

Well said as usual, but I will interject that without discussion you can't get to the issues. It is unfortunate that we all take offense (myself included) when the poo-poo starts flying around like so many flies and derailluer pulleys. Also, you hit on a very core problem and I believe that is the hours of talk but zero walk. And in defense of the previously mentioned problem, we are very spread out and there's only a hand full of people who are putting shovel to soil.

What I want:
1. Understanding of why race attendance is so very low
2. Ideas of what riders want to ride
3. A solid crew with similar passion to elevate the region
4. For this region to get the respect it deserves
5. A series without NORBA
6. To see Factory trucks in the WR parking lot!

What do you want???????????????????????????????????

 

[profro]

I don't necessarily need a series. A couple of races here and there is fine by me.

No pretending. In my opinion ESTU and Charlotte (even though I haven't been there to race) aren't worth DHing. However they are so worth MTNx, Dual, or slalom.

I like to race challening terrain. Because a weekend of racing is in essense a weekend of riding, but with a whole lot of friends. But I'm still there to put myslef against the clock and see how much I improved as a rider.

I don't want NORBA either. I liked to see an open class and two ameteur classes.

I'd like to dh race Windrock, Sugar (hopefully with the new stuff up top and the bottom reworked), and Wolf with some freakin berms (don't even start with me, Mammoth had berms) and bench cutting.

I'd like to see MTNx, DS, or dual races at Bigfoot, Lindsey Wilson, Hobby Park, and ETSU with no wasted effort on DHing at any of these venues.

But above all I'd like to see more of the Whistler style attitude. Richy Schely (however you spell it) said it well in NWD 5. Whistler doesn't say 'no thats too dangerous or hard, they say how can we do that safety'.

And I'd love to race Snakerock. That course ridden super fast is very demanding!

 

[bizutch]

Hmmmm.....mass start at the top of #2 in Wayehuta ATV park in Sylva. $10.00 entry fee. No prizes. Winner pays for the pizzas and gets his $10.00 back.
Honestly, Jeremy is the only person who's shredded that joint with me and he can vouch that you ALL would love it. We rode all the way to the top on our 5 inch travel bikes and that was after we did a 30 minute loop on two other trails there.

I'm gonna start looking at a calender....

 

[ztlh13]

The fundamental reasons there are no races!

It costs $100 fee to NORBA, @$250 fee for an official plus hotel, need minimum four to six volunteers, EMT's, course marking materials, and no one has even lifted a hand yet to build/ maintain the courses. That takes tons of time, imported dirt, and machinery to build it right! Oh yeah, then someone has to handle results, send $2 per rider to NORBA with post-event info, arrange for shuttle, prize solicitation, and clean up the venue.

For everyone who thinks promoters make the bucks, you are so mistaken that you really need to try to put on a race yourself. In fact, I can get you use of the ETSU facilities if you think you have what it takes!

 

[Peete]

The fundamental reasons there are no races!

It costs $100 fee to NORBA, @$250 fee for an official plus hotel, need minimum four to six volunteers, EMT's, course marking materials, and no one has even lifted a hand yet to build/ maintain the courses. That takes tons of time, imported dirt, and machinery to build it right! Oh yeah, then someone has to handle results, send $2 per rider to NORBA with post-event info, arrange for shuttle, prize solicitation, and clean up the venue.

For everyone who thinks promoters make the bucks, you are so mistaken that you really need to try to put on a race yourself. In fact, I can get you use of the ETSU facilities if you think you have what it takes!

Damn, Terry. I kinda figured norba does little to nothing for a regional race series but I didn't realize they took that much money. $2 per rider? The think the NBL takes $1 per at a regional. The big issue it seems is norba does absolutely nothing to promote or help out at the regional level and they aren't willing to spend any time or money on anything. USA cycling devotes all of it's resources to the road.

So by not helping the local guys set up the races, promote and build, it keeps people from coming back to race. Competitive MTB will never have the numbers BMX does. There are BMX track directors who make money even in a non-profit status and almost all tracks are self sustaining. They do it because the national organization tells them how to do things, promotes even at the local level and provide incentives to boost rider count.
Norba needs to start helping out more or there needs to be a series without them. As far as promotion doesn't the XC series in Florida have an outside promoter to handle advertising, online regestration and series scores?
Would it cost too much to hire one promoter to take care of the whole series?
Then that would free up the local guys to work on their respective courses.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

As far as promotion doesn't the XC series in Florida have an outside promoter to handle advertising, online regestration and series scores?
Would it cost too much to hire one promoter to take care of the whole series?
Then that would free up the local guys to work on their respective courses.

www.Goneriding.com Is an EXCELLENT promoter. I am responsibile for one of the trail systems down here and he is absolutely great to work with. He almost always just lets us map out the course when he is racing on our trails. He also maintains his OWN private MTB Park (which rocks btw), so he is VERY repsectful and works well with local trail builders. They put on the most successfull series in Florida (which is a BIG state geographically and population wise). He also runs the NORBA South Eastern Regional Championship series throughout the southeast. (FL, GA, TN, NC, SC, AL).

His website is nothing fancy, but I can tell you he knows his stuff. If I were you guys I'd contact him and see if he would be interested. This weekend he is putting on a 12hour event at his park, so he might not be available.

Oh his name is Dave Berger and his wife Terri. GREAT people.

 

[CharlieM]

The fundamental reasons there are no races!

It costs $100 fee to NORBA, @$250 fee for an official plus hotel, need minimum four to six volunteers, EMT's, course marking materials, and no one has even lifted a hand yet to build/ maintain the courses. That takes tons of time, imported dirt, and machinery to build it right! Oh yeah, then someone has to handle results, send $2 per rider to NORBA with post-event info, arrange for shuttle, prize solicitation, and clean up the venue.

For everyone who thinks promoters make the bucks, you are so mistaken that you really need to try to put on a race yourself. In fact, I can get you use of the ETSU facilities if you think you have what it takes!

I've been thinking about this idea for a while now. What if somebody in this area becomes a NORBA official? That way the series can save money and the official will actually know what he's doing.

Theres probably a catch to this but it would be a great Idea

 

[profro]

It costs $100 fee to NORBA, @$250 fee for an official plus hotel, need minimum four to six volunteers, EMT's, course marking materials, and no one has even lifted a hand yet to build/ maintain the courses. That takes tons of time, imported dirt, and machinery to build it right! Oh yeah, then someone has to handle results, send $2 per rider to NORBA with post-event info, arrange for shuttle, prize solicitation, and clean up the venue.

My reasons why a MTNx/DS/Dual series is an attractive offer...


No NORBA = + $100 + $250 + $100 (estimate for hotel) = approximately $450 SAVED

Four to six volunteers - I can ask my wife, who else knows someone?

EMTs - Call the local Volunteer Rescue or Fire Department

Course Marking Materials - Maxxis supplied last year, maybe they can again this year?

Juan, Ben, Shawn, Jon, Matt, and myself lifted quite a few hands to build the Bigfoot course (as did you guys at ETSU, Lindsey Wilson, and Hobby Park)

The results for a MTNx event sort of handle themselves, elimanation style. However qualifing is a little more involved but I think it can be done

No NORBA = $2 per rider SAVED

No Shuttle = money SAVED

Prizes = see saved money

Clean up venue = Ben, myself, Shawn, and Jon do that anyway


Now lets figure out the insurance part.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Now lets figure out the insurance part.

That is what the NORBA money goes to cover. As an IMBA club we have put on a few races and you are looking at ~ the same fees for event insurance, ontop of our existing Club Insurance. At least thats where it was for a XC race. I am not sure if the insurance providers would charge differently for a DH type race.

 

[bizutch]

Here's my take on NORBA. If you notice Terry said nothing negative about paying that $2.00 per rider or paying the cost of the official. He listed the prices for you so you can see it.

In my opinion, that $2.00 is fricking cheap. Sure, BMX has $1.00 fee, but it's in a small contained area...with no trees, roots, rocks or land managers like Windrock or Wolf or Sugar.

That $2.00 provides the promoter with a $1,000,000 insurance policy encompassing the promoter, the stunts, trails, terrain and acreage of the entire massive venue. The NORBA official, David Tate or Sandy....is a lifesaver and a VERY, VERY valuable asset. At Wolf we had people break bones and gets hurt bad and he chased them down. He made sure they were OK. He filed all their injuries, helped the EMT's fill out the proper paperwork, submitted it all with NORBA in the appropriate time frame...even rode the lift to help with timing, maintain the pace of the event...he did TONS!!!

You will never hear me complain about that $2.00 fee because it is a lifesaver. I know from personal experience. In 1997, I blew my ACL at the Seven Springs National. They filled out the accident report, filed it. NORBA called me to check up on me and since I didn't have any insurance, they covered my surgery, physical therapy and custom knee brace. $1000.00 deductible, the 80/20. My $16,000 bill got paid leaving me only about $4200.00 out of pocket.

I will always support that aspect of NORBA!

Terry, since the ETSU is permanent, couldn't you do like a BMX track or baseball park and sell "sideline" banners along the sides to local merchants to pay for dirt, water, maintenance, possibly even lights. I would think it would be the same principle??? Maybe that would help you get the finishing touches on that course and make it a permanent fixture of the Johnson City skyline?

 

[ztlh13]

I agree with Butch!! The insurance is a lifesaver and even our lame dh at etsu has resulted in serious injuries. One kid from Florida broke his leg in two, and was at our fine hospital for nine days.
ETSU is school property and we have gone behind their backs several times on dirt, but there are few people who will bring it on campus without school permission.

I am not complaining about NORBA, only the fact that they don't do anything to try and enhance MTB racing at any level. I hear the pros won't get paid at nationals again. If they cannot get a national series under control there is no hope for regional progression from anyone but us. The biggest problem is finding a cash paying sponsor, they almost don't exist.

 

[spoke80]

Excellent Ideas!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jeremy R]

Excellent Ideas!!!!!!!!!

Yep, Butch and Terry both know the deal when it comes to Norba Insurance.
It is almost impossible to have an event without them unless you have a ton of dough.
The only exception that I have come across is if a resort has its own insurance for riders (just like they do in Skiing) year around. This is how
Mountain Creek gets around it. Its covered under their lift tickets.
But having a non-Norba race at a place like Windrock would be really tough based on insurance reasons alone.
But know that we are moving forward here, let's keep the ideas flowing!

 

[bigkonarider]

races-
http://www.canecreek.com/site/who/race/ccc.html

 

[DVNT]

Well, I figure it getting close to that time of year again.

And I'm bored. :nuts:


OK, actually trying to be semi-serious over here.

I thought we'd be further along to getting a race-able DH trail here but the shuttle was ......
Well ask Brady or Jeff about the Shuttle at Windy Gap.

Any chance of a series? Even if it's a 3 race series at one mountain???