[slyfink]

It is my general understanding that the Fox Grip 2 damper is considered superior to even the Lyric‘s upgraded version. Sits higher in general use, tracks better, and the chassis difference is negligible.

This is what I'm hearing anecdotally, but the test riders generally seem to prefer the Lyrik. Except for that Seb Stott guy. He was pretty adamant about the 36 being clearly better. Maybe he figured out how to dial in the fork for his preference? My problem is, as a heavier rider, I have to try and extrapolate what reviewers say when they talk about harshness... is that good for me or bad? and in which scenarios. The other thing that haunts me is the whole "adjustment" range of the adjusters that englertracing mentions here:

It's underdamped on the shorter travel forks.
The 36 air spring masks it. The 38 air spring makes it obvious and the 40 doesn't need as much damping....

I watched the video review Steve at Vorsprung put up of the 38 and it had me concerned. I feel my weight and riding style will put be too close to, or maybe even outside, that usable tuning range. I suppose the question is how much does the air spring compensate? And as a heavier rider, will I overwhelm that air spring compensation? Or does it play in my favour? I'm not well versed enough in suspension kinematics to draw my own conclusions...

At the end of the day, I know this is a "first world problem", but I'm still looking at a pretty big cash outlay, which is why I want to be comfortable with my decision.

I think price and availability will still play a big role...

@slyfink have you considered dropping travel by 10 or 20 mm? if i mulleted my nomad i'd likely go from 180 up front to 170.

Yeah, when I first considered this, I was thinking I'd drop front end travel to 150. But now I'm not sure I want to bother chasing all those changes down...

I've got a 2019 Lyrik 29 non-Boost with most recent updated air spring and Charger2.1 damper in - looking for a couple hundred bucks... Black, de-stickered. No creaks (but i'm only about 150#) or stanchion issues. Downside is the steer tube is short so a buyer would likely need a new CSU. Which may not be an easy thing to get right now.

Hmmm... how much travel? And how long is the steerer? My head tube is 110mm and zero stack top and bottom... maybe it'll fit?

Part of the reason I want to buy new is the the warranty on the CSU. But if I have to buy a new CSU anyway, perhaps it could be worth it? Problem is, the CSUs for non-boost hubs are stupidly expensive (close to $400 canadian), I checked for my Pike...

Then I'm still in the boat of chasing down parts to lower BB and de-slacken the seat tube. :/

decisions decisions...

 

[scrublover]

This is what I'm hearing anecdotally, but the test riders generally seem to prefer the Lyrik. Except for that Seb Stott guy. He was pretty adamant about the 36 being clearly better. Maybe he figured out how to dial in the fork for his preference? My problem is, as a heavier rider, I have to try and extrapolate what reviewers say when they talk about harshness... is that good for me or bad? and in which scenarios. The other thing that haunts me is the whole "adjustment" range of the adjusters that englertracing mentions here:

I watched the video review Steve at Vorsprung put up of the 38 and it had me concerned. I feel my weight and riding style will put be too close to, or maybe even outside, that usable tuning range. I suppose the question is how much does the air spring compensate? And as a heavier rider, will I overwhelm that air spring compensation? Or does it play in my favour? I'm not well versed enough in suspension kinematics to draw my own conclusions...

At the end of the day, I know this is a "first world problem", but I'm still looking at a pretty big cash outlay, which is why I want to be comfortable with my decision.

I think price and availability will still play a big role...


Yeah, when I first considered this, I was thinking I'd drop front end travel to 150. But now I'm not sure I want to bother chasing all those changes down...

Hmmm... how much travel? And how long is the steerer? My head tube is 110mm and zero stack top and bottom... maybe it'll fit?

Part of the reason I want to buy new is the the warranty on the CSU. But if I have to buy a new CSU anyway, perhaps it could be worth it? Problem is, the CSUs for non-boost hubs are stupidly expensive (close to $400 canadian), I checked for my Pike...

Then I'm still in the boat of chasing down parts to lower BB and de-slacken the seat tube. :/

decisions decisions...

180mm installed ATM, but have the original 150mm as well. Would be easy enough to swap the newer bits onto the shorter air shaft. Hell, I'd even sell just the chassis if you wanted to put in coil/Avy/other stuff.

173mm - just shy of 7"

Been meaning to list it a few places online, just haven't gotten around to doing so.

Caveat - it began as a take-off Yari I purchased super cheap, then popped in the upgrade bits.

 

[jdcamb]

Bang for the Buck. XFusions fork offerings (and rear Shocks) offer good performance, durability, and affordability. If I can figure how they work then so can you. Readily available parts and good customer service so far. When others start custom tuning them it will bring them to the forefront as a Suspension Company.

 

[Colonel Angus]

I have a boost fork on my hardtail that has a non-boost wheel, and I use a set of 6-Bolt Front Boosters from Problem Solvers to use my non-boost wheel on the front. Works totally fine, no issues. Just in case you can't find anything non-Boost out there you're interested in.

Also, does CK make a conversion end caps or anything for that hub?

I must be getting old. What is a boost fork?

 

[slyfink]

I must be getting old. What is a boost fork?

110 x 15mm axle. It's what's wrong with the industry.

 

[slyfink]

On that note, I emailed Chris King caus' I couldn't find a 15 x 110 mm axle for my front hub. It was originally a 20 x 110mm, then the industry went to 15 x 100, and then again to 15 x 110. I was told they aren't planning on making an axle for my hub because it's too old, and was intended for heavy duty riding such as downhill and dirt jumping.

I have to say, I'm pretty fucking pissed about it. Coming from the company of "we're all about sustainability" blah blah blah... but we'll stop supporting perfectly good products?! I mean, I know there can't be many people with ISO LD hubs that want to use them in new forks, but if they want to truly be sustainable they would figure out a way of avoiding making those products obsolete.

I'm especially choked about the whole "they were meant for heavy duty riding". Which is where the industry is going now. If the hub was designed around 110 spacing, how fucking hard is is to make an axle for a smaller thru-axle.

 

[6thElement]

On that note, I emailed Chris King caus' I couldn't find a 15 x 110 mm axle for my front hub. It was originally a 20 x 110mm, then the industry went to 15 x 100, and then again to 15 x 110. I was told they aren't planning on making an axle for my hub because it's too old, and was intended for heavy duty riding such as downhill and dirt jumping.

I have to say, I'm pretty fucking pissed about it. Coming from the company of "we're all about sustainability" blah blah blah... but we'll stop supporting perfectly good products?! I mean, I know there can't be many people with ISO LD hubs that want to use them in new forks, but if they want to truly be sustainable they would figure out a way of avoiding making those products obsolete.

I'm especially choked about the whole "they were meant for heavy duty riding". Which is where the industry is going now. If the hub was designed around 110 spacing, how fucking hard is is to make an axle for a smaller thru-axle.

Rotor needs spacing too, not just the axle.

 

[StiHacka]

Sucks, sorry. That's why I Hadley.
But this (or a similar) kit should still work no? (with the 15x100 axle)

Problem Solvers Front 10mm Booster Kit - 6-Bolt Hub

Shop & Learn About The Problem Solvers Booster Hub Spacing Kit - Front In The Front Axle Conversion Kit Collection - Features & Specs: keyword search: 15x110||boost, : MPN: 03-000192 UPC: 708752170988, : Booster thru-axle hub spacer kits are designed to give your non-Boost front and rear...

www.worldwidecyclery.com

 

[slyfink]

Sucks, sorry. That's why I Hadley.
But this (or a similar) kit should still work no?

Problem Solvers Front 10mm Booster Kit - 6-Bolt Hub

Shop & Learn About The Problem Solvers Booster Hub Spacing Kit - Front In The Front Axle Conversion Kit Collection - Features & Specs: keyword search: 15x110||boost, : MPN: 03-000192 UPC: 708752170988, : Booster thru-axle hub spacer kits are designed to give your non-Boost front and rear...

www.worldwidecyclery.com

Yes for sure. I guess I'm just pissed that King answered "sorry too old".

 

[slyfink]

On that note. Can someone explain offset to me. Again. My bike was designed around 42mm offset fork. New Lyriks come in 46mm or 37. Fox in 44. I feel like 37 would be too short and 46 too long.

If anything, I feel I have a hard time getting over the front now. Would any of those help? Or make no difference. Offset is about steering and stability at speed?

 

[StiHacka]

Yes for sure. I guess I'm just pissed that King answered "sorry too old".

Yeah, that sucks. Is your hub CK ISO? MRP has an adapter specifically for those.

 

[slyfink]

Yeah, that sucks. Is your hub CK ISO? MRP has an adapter specifically for those.

yes. and they do: https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/mrp-better-boost-endcap-kit-converts-15mmx100mm-to-15mmx110mm-chris-king-iso-6-bolt

distributor still has one kit in stock, so I'm fine. It's the principle that bothers me... I'm all about the principles!

 

[Full Trucker]

On that note. Can someone explain offset to me. Again. My bike was designed around 42mm offset fork. New Lyriks come in 46mm or 37. Fox in 44. I feel like 37 would be too short and 46 too long.

If anything, I feel I have a hard time getting over the front now. Would any of those help? Or make no difference. Offset is about steering and stability at speed?

Yes.

 

[Full Trucker]

Okay, a slightly less snarky answer. I skimmed this article, and it seems pretty dang good at explaining fork offset:

Fork Offset Explained - Does It Really Make A Difference? [Video]

Fork offset is the measured distance from the steering axis to the mounting point of the front wheel. Another thing which has evolved to make bikes work better on even more parts of your ride. In this video, we clear the confusion and take an in-depth look at what fork offset is and how it will...

www.worldwidecyclery.com

As for my experiences, I have a hardtail that I have run two different forks that have the same AC height but different offsets, and I think the fork with the shorter offset feels more twitchy on that particular bike. It's also a hardtail with a steeper 67-68º HTA. If I had gone with a slightly taller fork with the shorter offset, I think the handling would have been a wash. On my last FS bike I've also tried a 160mm Fox 36 with longer offset vs. a 170mm Fox 36 with the shorter offset, and found the difference to be negligible. Certainly the fork height plays a part, but maybe also the slackness of that bike played a factor? It was like 65.5º HTA unsagged.

As far as getting over the front of the bike, I felt that on my new bike (Yeti SB150 so a "modern geo" bike) no matter what I did to tune the suspension. The thing that helped me make that bike feel "right" was going to a 50mm stem from the 40mm that it came with. With the shorter stem, I never felt like I could engage the front wheel: not through chunder, not at high speed, not in corners, not anywhere. The 50mm stem completely changed that feeling.

YMMV.

 

[Full Trucker]

Also, anything from 37mm to 46mm will probably be fine, considering that older longer offset was 51mm. Though I'd probably get something closer to the middle of that range if you can, maybe err on the longer side of the shorter offset i.e. 46mm instead of 37mm if you go with the Lyrik. But then again, I'm no rocket surgeon so I could be totally fucked on this.

 

[ricekrispyota]

Order new stanchions and a steer tube from these guys:

ND Tuned

Components for bicycle, motorcycle, ATV, off-road vehicles suspensions. Full suspension service center located in Portugal.

ndtuned.com

Get the press in/out kit from this guy:

Blue Liquid Labs | An Oliver Majewski Project

blueliquidlabs.com

Watch this video and find someone with a press and make sure you use high shear strength locktite.

.

May run you about $450 for everything.

 

[slyfink]

thanks! I read their WC article you linked to, and this one on NSMB: https://nsmb.com/articles/short-fork-offset-whats-it-good/

Lars almost tells me what I'm hoping to hear when he's describing his experimenting with his Patrol, but falls back into marketing drivel.

As I understand it, decreasing offset will increase trail. It will shorten my wheel base and bring the wheel closer to me (the centre of mass). Longer trail will make the bike "turn-in easier", and maybe want to lock into turns more. It will make the bike more stable in a straight line. The downsides are a shorter wheel base, and that "locked into the turn" feeling. The upside is quicker turn-in.

Going the other way - longer offset (shorter trail), the bike would be less responsive to steering input, and harder to turn. The longer wheelbase will make the bike more stable.

I've never had issues with turn-in on my bike. In fact, my main feeling on the bike when things get fast is not feeling like I've get enough weight over the front wheel. Sort of like I'm chasing after it rather than riding over it. I do feel like I get overwhelmed when things get really fast - like I can't see where I'm going, and I'm getting shaken around a lot, not in control. This is both on flow trails and in severely chunky trails - though I think that's down to the Pike being slightly flexy for my weight and riding style.

My conclusion is that if anything, I'd want to go shorter offset rather than longer. I would ride "over the front" more. And if I'm finding the turn-in is too much, I could put in an angle-set to decrease the HA°.

Gah, this is almost all too much. Makes me not want to get anything, and just deal with the creaky crown of my Pike. Goddam bike industry changing everything all the time. I just want to ride a quiet bike, not get a degree in advanced bike physics.

 

[Full Trucker]

Everybody says that decreasing offset/lengthening trail "will make the bike more stable in a straight line." But longer offset/shorter trail makes the bike "less responsive to steering input" and gives it a "longer wheelbase"... which in my pea brain also makes for a more stable bike in a straight line, which is what they tout the shorter offset as being good at. So what you fuckers are saying is that no matter what you do, the bike will be more stable in a straight line?

Add to that, a shorter offset tucks the contact patch of the tire (or tyre) back towards your bottom bracket, which has the effect of steepening the "effective" HTA if you think about drawing a straight line from the center of the bottom BB cup to the center of the tire (or tyre) contact patch, that imaginary line will have a steeper angle when you shorten offset/lengthen trail.

So yeah. Whatever, asshole marketing people.

I do think the decreased trail offers benefits, but only when paired with a super slack HTA, long front center, and long wheelbase.

 

[Westy]

It is one of those things where you might be able to feel the difference riding back to back, but yer brain is a highly adaptable thingamajigger and at the end of the day you will be just as happy either way.

And at this point in time you will probably just have to with what is available.

 

[Full Trucker]

^^^that

 

[slyfink]

And at this point in time you will probably just have to with what is available.

^^^that

Fucking done. 2022 Fox 36 Grip 2 has been ordered.

Can I delete this fucking thread now?!

 

[StiHacka]

It is one of those things where you might be able to feel the difference riding back to back, but yer brain is a highly adaptable thingamajigger and at the end of the day you will be just as happy either way.

When I switched from a 44mm offset to 37mm, the change was very noticeable, and it still is when I ride a bike with a longer offset again.

 

[jonKranked]

On that note, I emailed Chris King caus' I couldn't find a 15 x 110 mm axle for my front hub. It was originally a 20 x 110mm, then the industry went to 15 x 100, and then again to 15 x 110. I was told they aren't planning on making an axle for my hub because it's too old, and was intended for heavy duty riding such as downhill and dirt jumping.

I have to say, I'm pretty fucking pissed about it. Coming from the company of "we're all about sustainability" blah blah blah... but we'll stop supporting perfectly good products?! I mean, I know there can't be many people with ISO LD hubs that want to use them in new forks, but if they want to truly be sustainable they would figure out a way of avoiding making those products obsolete.

I'm especially choked about the whole "they were meant for heavy duty riding". Which is where the industry is going now. If the hub was designed around 110 spacing, how fucking hard is is to make an axle for a smaller thru-axle.

Hadley makes a 15mm kit for a 20mm dh hub they manufactured in 2001.

 

[jonKranked]

Fucking done. 2022 Fox 36 Grip 2 has been ordered.

Can I delete this fucking thread now?!

y u no formula dual crown enduro fork?

 

[Westy]

When I switched from a 44mm offset to 37mm, the change was very noticeable, and it still is when I ride a bike with a longer offset again.

Noticeable yes but does it make any difference in how you enjoy your ride?

I am sure there are a lot of princesses here that couldn't ride a trail with a pea on it.

 

[StiHacka]

Noticeable yes but does it make any difference in how you enjoy your ride?

I am sure there are a lot of princesses here that couldn't ride a trail with a pea on it.

It changes how I ride and the difference is possibly quite a bit bigger that you'd think.

 

[6thElement]

Fucking done. 2022 Fox 36 Grip 2 has been ordered.

Can I delete this fucking thread now?!

No.
We need to know what colour it is against your frame, so we can say you should have got the other colour.