[metasepia]

Hey guys,

I am very new to downhill and this is my first post in the forum - hopefully I'm posting this in the right place. I would like some advice on my first bike purchase. I have gone on several downhill runs with other people and either ridden one borrowed bikes or rentals. I recently rode the "Whole Enchilada" on a Trek Session in Moab and had a blast. What I really want is a bike that would be able to handle the pounding of that trail but wouldn't be quite so heavy as the Session so that I could do more cross country / longer distance / off the beaten path kind of rides and then still be able to do some pretty serious downhilling. My question is whether or not this is a bridgeable compromise or whether I will get a bike which is the worst of both worlds. Obviously, I will have to make compromises on both fronts and would be willing to do so (i.e. not quite as heavy-duty as a full-on downhill bike but not as light as a touring bike). Has anyone here gone this route? Is the Trek Slash a good bike to fill this niche? could I get Slash and mod it in someway? with heavy tires for instance? -or would you do something else? Thanks so much in advance for your experience and replies - I really value tried and true experience over advertising blips on the internet...

 

[p-spec]

slash sounds like the perfect bike for you.

tons of great reasons to go with it.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

I think you're on the right track.

You'll have compromises in performance on either end of the spectrum. Any of the lighter big travel bikes on the market would fill what you're after. Slash, Reign X, Nomad, ect.

For me though, I just bought another bike when I could afford it. I have a 5 inch slack trail bike, and a full on DH bike. I have an Intense SS which works O.K. for both, but I don't ride it any more...

 

[Oldm8]

I bought a Trek Scratch air 8 about 4 months ago for my all mountain travel with bike and to be honest I haven't ridden my dh bike since. Can do all the technical xc tracks where I live and is much more fun on the dh tracks also. Plan on racing it this year in both xc and dh.

 

[p-spec]

recomend the slash or remedy

 

[norbar]

I'd go with the Slash over Remedy or Scratch (which is a bit of a mistake in my opinion). I'm not sure about reign x'es but regular reigns have horrible opinion among the local enduro guys. Lots of the 2010+ cracked.

 

[bdamschen]

don't forget to check out Intense's uzzi as well. That bike is a good time and climbs decently, especially with an an air shock set in the shorter travel mode.

http://www.intensecycles.com/bikes/index.php?id=2&product_id=11

 

[p-spec]

Honnestly its not cause im a trek dealer im saying this.If you rode the session and are really happy with its performance and handling,it just makes sense to get the sessions lil sister the slash.

now you just need to figure out wat type of material frame you want.

 

[Oldm8]

I'd go with the Slash over Remedy or Scratch (which is a bit of a mistake in my opinion). I'm not sure about reign x'es but regular reigns have horrible opinion among the local enduro guys. Lots of the 2010+ cracked.

Just wondering why you think the scratch was a mistake Norbar? I must admit I'd like the bottom bracket slightly lower but we have really rocky tracks so the higher BB does has some good points.

 

[norbar]

Just wondering why you think the scratch was a mistake Norbar? I must admit I'd like the bottom bracket slightly lower but we have really rocky tracks so the higher BB does has some good points.

If the bb was lower the bike would still be very pedalable. It was just too high and too steep for what it was. Also reading their first realeses I got the feeling they kinda tried to go the vp-free way of making a do it all bike but that's silly. When you get a longer travel fr bike you may go up the hill but they won't be technical uphills. Imho the Slash could be also a bit lower but since they target it more towards the enduro crowd and go for the megas it doesn't have to be super low.

 

[Oldm8]

Have you ridden one

 

[sanjuro]

Also consider this:

Are you a big drop rider? Looking to do drops, super gnarly rock gardens, and big air? All at high speed?

If you aren't, which I'm guessing with your experience is the case, then the bigger the bike, the less you can utilize its full potential.

For example, I was deciding between a Nomad and a Blur LT, which is almost identical in travel but the Nomad is bigger.

I decided on the Blur. While I am no big drop rider, I did a few Northstar black diamond runs on my Blur (which at my skill level I barely survived), and I do regular runs in Downieville, which would be similar to Porcupine Ridge in Moab.

A Nomad is better for all of those trails, but 90% of my riding is in the Bay Area, which I barely need a full suspension bike. But I wanted a trail bike for those days I did feel like using a FS bike instead of my hardtail.

But I have seen extremes, from a noob with a Nomad crashing on trails I clean with my HT, to friends who ride their Enduros and Nomads like XC racers (and still go big when it counts).

 

[demo 9]

Canfield "the one" would be cool, its a dh bike if your facing down or a xc bike if your facing up, its pretty sweet.

 

[John P.]

Hey Metasepia-

Good to have you on board, and no need to apologize for being a noob.

I think there's some great advice in the previous posts, and the only thing I'd add is to be aware that while the amount of suspension travel is important, the geometry of the bike has a much bigger effect on the way the bike rides (weight is obviously an important factor, too).

For your purposes, I'd look for something low and slack - a bottom bracket heigh around 13.5 and a head angle of 67 degrees or less. A 7" travel bike would work great, but there are lots of good 6" travel bikes that would be more than adequate.

Keep us updated on what you buy,

JP

 

[ltr450rider]

I am very happy with my Slash 9. Living in Santa Barbara I needed a bike that could do it all, it really does, and does it well. High reguards on the Slash from me.

 

[Beast]

I loved the slash when I rode it. Seriously fun bike. - http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Ridden-2012-Trek-Slash,2784/Slideshow,0/bturman,109

 

[Sandwich]

While the slash is a great bike, it may be worth considering taking your budget and dividing it up and buying a bike specific to each niche. I don't know what you're budget is, but I recently bought a pair of used bikes @ about $1000 each, and each is infinitely more suited to its niche than the other. One is a straight up trail/xc bike and the other is a full on DH bike. It's worth considering if you really want to squeeze out maximum performance.

If you really think you'll be OK pedaling a 34lb bike up hills all day or DHing on a shorter travel bike with more aggressive geometry, than go for it. Some people certainly are, and there are a lot of bikes that allow you to adjust travel/geometry/performance to a certain niche, but you may end up paying a lot more for a bike that doesn't do anything well.

The Treks are a solid choice no matter which bike you get. Having owned a fuel, and hearing nothing but good things about each one in their lineup, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another in a heartbeat...they're just expensive!

 

[norbar]

Have you ridden one

Only around the carpark so it doesn't count really but I've ridden bikes with very similar geo and for going down they didn't feel that good.


btw. John P. has some spot on advice on the geo. Isn't the new sx trail around that what you describe? If I'm not wrong and if you want cheap look up dartmoor wish. It's a new bike for 2012 but the prices should be awesome and the numers look good.

 

[p-spec]

people need to realise trek is seriously one of the better big brands out there.

 

[p-spec]

While the slash is a great bike, it may be worth considering taking your budget and dividing it up and buying a bike specific to each niche. I don't know what you're budget is, but I recently bought a pair of used bikes @ about $1000 each, and each is infinitely more suited to its niche than the other. One is a straight up trail/xc bike and the other is a full on DH bike. It's worth considering if you really want to squeeze out maximum performance.

If you really think you'll be OK pedaling a 34lb bike up hills all day or DHing on a shorter travel bike with more aggressive geometry, than go for it. Some people certainly are, and there are a lot of bikes that allow you to adjust travel/geometry/performance to a certain niche, but you may end up paying a lot more for a bike that doesn't do anything well.

The Treks are a solid choice no matter which bike you get. Having owned a fuel, and hearing nothing but good things about each one in their lineup, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another in a heartbeat...they're just expensive!

my boss raves about his drcv fuel ex.

 

[-BB-]

I think you're on the right track.

You'll have compromises in performance on either end of the spectrum. Any of the lighter big travel bikes on the market would fill what you're after. Slash, Reign X, Nomad, ect.

For me though, I just bought another bike when I could afford it. I have a 5 inch slack trail bike, and a full on DH bike. I have an Intense SS which works O.K. for both, but I don't ride it any more...

Ditto...
I had a DH bike, a mid bike (IH 7point with Totem) and an IH Mk3. I replaced the MK3 with a Banshee Spitfire and since I built that one up I have not even touched the 7point. Well that is a slight lie. I did touch the 7point to steal the pedals off it for the Spitfire.

 

[TWeerts]

My personal qualm with the slash is that silly DRCV shock they have spec'd in the back. While the DRCV may help address some of the down falls of an air shock, it greatly limits aftermarket shock choices. matter of fact, if you ever have to replace the shock, you must buy that exact shock from trek. i dont appreciate the locked-in mess that trek has made.

now, if we could just figure out how to mount a coil shock with the standard hardware, the slash would be a killing machine.

also, DRCV fork now? srsly?

 

[tuumbaq]

Only around the carpark so it doesn't count really but I've ridden bikes with very similar geo and for going down they didn't feel that good.


btw. John P. has some spot on advice on the geo. Isn't the new sx trail around that what you describe? If I'm not wrong and if you want cheap look up dartmoor wish. It's a new bike for 2012 but the prices should be awesome and the numers look good.

This is precisely the reason why one cannot make a decision based on what he reads on the internet...so much E-opinions.

No offense to you my friend but you havent ridden the bike therefore you have NO idea how it behaves in its element.Numbers arent the end of the world especially those on paper.I know of a numbers of guys who can still ride at pretty much world cup speed on what would be considered " outdated " geo.

You also need to take into account the fact that the numbers even similar on paper will become very different once the suspension gets going...People tends to get so anal with the geometry these days, OMG the BB is an 1/8 of an inch to high , thats a crap bike !!!!! . . . Irritating really ... just ride the freaking thing and trust the guy with a REAL engineering degree getting paid to think all day long for weeks to design only ONE bike.

In the past Ive had, Nomads, Blur 4x, Enduros , Butcher and also a 2009 Remedy which was proly my favorite trail bike of the bunch...Then came the 2012 Slash

Ive always tried to build and somewhat considered my trail bikes to be "mini-downhill" bikes and I'd say the Slash is in a different league.I haven't had enough time on it yet but so far I am VERY impressed with this bike.

One thing I can already tell is that this bike was truly made with one thing in mind : mega avalanche type of races.Trek didnt do an half-ass compromise job trying to please a broad range of potential trail riders.

The Slash really rides like a DH just a bit short on travel...Its easy to tell from the first pedal stoke , the bike was design to go down with NO compromise.@ 25% sag , It "bobs" quite a lot pedaling uphill,I'd say more than most other trail bikes Ive had but the low weight keeps it reasonable to climb regardless.

Now what you get in return is an OUTSTANDING amount of grip,the progression curve is also extremely pleasing, feels completely bottomless on big hits and the Slash is very , VERY stable at high speed.Going sideways down fire roads instantly becomes a whole different game.When things gets gnarly , its easy to stick with your line...point it down , the bike will sits in its travel and track without skipping or flexing all over...

So far I am happily surprised with the DRCV shock as well ( which was my biggest worry about this bike ) and dont se how I would want anything different...Oh and I would think it'd be totally feasible to run any other type of shock on there if one wishes to do so...Ive seen it done on Remedys in the past...

Anyhow,mine's a custom build would ride differently with a different fork but it is a very capable DH bike and my Session hasnt seen any action ever since the Slash came into the house

I dont know how to post pictures here, or at least it doesnt work so , here's a link to mine if you 'd like to take a look at my build : DSC_2693 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[davec113]

My personal qualm with the slash is that silly DRCV shock they have spec'd in the back. While the DRCV may help address some of the down falls of an air shock, it greatly limits aftermarket shock choices. matter of fact, if you ever have to replace the shock, you must buy that exact shock from trek. i dont appreciate the locked-in mess that trek has made.

now, if we could just figure out how to mount a coil shock with the standard hardware, the slash would be a killing machine.

also, DRCV fork now? srsly?

Actually, it can be done, but requires some modification. I saw a thread on it on mtbr, didn't seem too difficult. I'd try the drcv shock and see if it's ok, but having recently mounted a vivid coil on my '09 Remedy I can't see going back to an air shock, maybe the vivid air or ccdb air, but those are 2x the price of my coil shock. Since the Slash came out I'm ready for my Remedy to crack now... a 6.5 lb frame can't last forever.

 

[norbar]

This is precisely the reason why one cannot make a decision based on what he reads on the internet...so much E-opinions.

No offense to you my friend but you havent ridden the bike therefore you have NO idea how it behaves in its element.Numbers arent the end of the world especially those on paper.I know of a numbers of guys who can still ride at pretty much world cup speed on what would be considered " outdated " geo.

You also need to take into account the fact that the numbers even similar on paper will become very different once the suspension gets going...People tends to get so anal with the geometry these days, OMG the BB is an 1/8 of an inch to high , thats a crap bike !!!!! . . . Irritating really ... just ride the freaking thing and trust the guy with a REAL engineering degree getting paid to think all day long for weeks to design only ONE bike.

In the past Ive had, Nomads, Blur 4x, Enduros , Butcher and also a 2009 Remedy which was proly my favorite trail bike of the bunch...Then came the 2012 Slash

Ive always tried to build and somewhat considered my trail bikes to be "mini-downhill" bikes and I'd say the Slash is in a different league.I haven't had enough time on it yet but so far I am VERY impressed with this bike.

One thing I can already tell is that this bike was truly made with one thing in mind : mega avalanche type of races.Trek didnt do an half-ass compromise job trying to please a broad range of potential trail riders.

The Slash really rides like a DH just a bit short on travel...Its easy to tell from the first pedal stoke , the bike was design to go down with NO compromise.@ 25% sag , It "bobs" quite a lot pedaling uphill,I'd say more than most other trail bikes Ive had but the low weight keeps it reasonable to climb regardless.

Now what you get in return is an OUTSTANDING amount of grip,the progression curve is also extremely pleasing, feels completely bottomless on big hits and the Slash is very , VERY stable at high speed.Going sideways down fire roads instantly becomes a whole different game.When things gets gnarly , its easy to stick with your line...point it down , the bike will sits in its travel and track without skipping or flexing all over...

So far I am happily surprised with the DRCV shock as well ( which was my biggest worry about this bike ) and dont se how I would want anything different...Oh and I would think it'd be totally feasible to run any other type of shock on there if one wishes to do so...Ive seen it done on Remedys in the past...

Anyhow,mine's a custom build would ride differently with a different fork but it is a very capable DH bike and my Session hasnt seen any action ever since the Slash came into the house

I dont know how to post pictures here, or at least it doesnt work so , here's a link to mine if you 'd like to take a look at my build : DSC_2693 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

None taken. I don't agree exactly with you since if you also know what the susp should do on a given bike the numbers all helpfull. Yes it's not all of the story but if they look silly the bike probably will ride silly. I wasn't a beliver in that up untill I had a bit more bikes under me and if you think not in terms of good bike/bad bike but separate the geo and susp you can make a lot of assumptions. Though I see where you are comming from and yes I can be wrong in some cases.

Also that WC speed argument is tired. Yeah Zink and Cedric rode the rampage on what were basicly AM bikes but that doesn't make them the best tools for the job

 

[ltr450rider]

E-pinions are pretty awsome to read, here's mine. I love my Slash!

As far as the shock goes, why fix whats not broken? The shock works great! I have no complaints. Maybe you get a little more pedal bob on a 6" bike compared to a 4" bike, but thats the tradeoff for having a "downhillable" all-mountain bike. You can have one of each bike that is a 10 for it's purpose, or you can have one bike that does everything at a 8 of 10. You make the choice.

 

[davec113]

@tuumbaq and ltr450rider, does the drcv rp23 handle long rocky downhills without losing all it's damping and turning the rear end into a pogo stick? That was one issue I had with the rp23 on my '09 Remedy.

I'm surprised how much better my new vivid coil is vs the rp23, it is much more like a mini-Session 88 now, and the damping works at the bottom of the trail as well as the top. Night-and-Day difference in all regards. I can feel the extra weight, but it's near the bike's center of gravity so it doesn't bother me much.

 

[metasepia]

Thanks so much for all your experience and different opinions guys! I'm trying to read and digest everything. I am leaning towards getting the Slash. My biggest fear when considering it initially was that I wouldn't be able to ride something like The Whole Enchilada or Porcupine Rim trail in Moab with friends if they had more serious downhill bikes and I wanted to go with them (I use these trails as references 'cause they're really the only serious downhill runs I've been on). I don't need to fly fast off monstrous drops but I want to at least physically be able to go on the runs with them (even if not as fast). I think I'll be pretty happy with that compromise. It sounds like the Slash can handle this and still be used as more of a technical trail bike.

 

[norbar]

If you don't want do to technical uphills and some really XC heavy stuff I would look into a bit heavier bikes. I know a lot of people who do long distances on SX trails, new Blindsides. The new one also looks like a banger bike.

 

[p-spec]

changing DRCV specific tuned shock for the bike for a RS vivid is just nonsense.

 

[davec113]

changing DRCV specific tuned shock for the bike for a RS vivid is just nonsense.

Well, my bike came with a stock, non-drcv rp23.

Can I get some reasons for your opinion or are you just spouting a load of $h!t that has no basis in actual experience? Have you rode a bike with both shocks? If not, then I'd suggest your opinion on this is as valuable as garbage.

 

[p-spec]

Well, my bike came with a stock, non-drcv rp23.

Can I get some reasons for your opinion or are you just spouting a load of $h!t that has no basis in actual experience? Have you rode a bike with both shocks? If not, then I'd suggest your opinion on this is as valuable as garbage.

DRCV is going to make your bike ride allot more plush and increase great in suspension feeling.DUAL RATE CONTROL VALVE.

just like a full floater system,doesn't add travel,it just makes the suspension system feel bottomless and more plush.

 

[staike]

just like a full floater system,doesn't add travel,it just makes the suspension system feel bottomless and more plush.

You clearly have no idea at all, do you?

 

[ltr450rider]

My Slash has not faded, nor turned into a 2 wheel pogo. the rockiest trail I've been on is Romero Canyon, it's about 20 mins of alot of rocks. I have yet to ride Cold Springs or Tunnel, but they will be soon.

 

[norbar]

DRCV is going to make your bike ride allot more plush and increase great in suspension feeling.DUAL RATE CONTROL VALVE.

just like a full floater system,doesn't add travel,it just makes the suspension system feel bottomless and more plush.

Man and I though I sometimes talked out of my ass. I really hope you don't belive that FSR still accelerates from bumps and santa cruz axle path is s shaped.

 

[ltr450rider]

Man and I though I sometimes talked out of my ass. I really hope you don't belive that FSR still accelerates from bumps and santa cruz axle path is s shaped.

Please elaborate on the why The DRCV and Full floater is not as plush feeling as fixed mounted/single air chamber shock.

 

[norbar]

The full floater argument is beating a dead horse. You can achieve the same ratios with a shock actuated by a single link. The main reason to use full floaters is less stress on the front triangle. As for the DRCV I'm in the middle of studying for an exam and I notice I ramble this weekend like a madman so I will get back to you with that tommorow.


Though the whole plush idea is a bit silly. No one really defined what it is. DRCV though I think is not really plusher, just allows the shock to stay plush without the silly distadvantages of a HV air can. It's a good idea but it's not about plush. It's about combining the best of lv and hv air can. Even trek guys claimed that before the marketing machine took over that.

 

[Sandwich]

Full floater is ad copy that trek uses to convince people that the leverage rate they achieve by using a floating eyelet mounted shock is unavailable to people who used a fixed eyelet shock mount. In reality, you can achieve anything with anything; the benefits of a floating shock mount are more directed to not having a mount on the downtube, which can be better for packaging or weight or strength, but those forces have to be directed somewhere, so it's likely that the swingarm(s) and seat tube are heavier than a similar setup to a Kona or likewise. I think it's a great system that's very compact and super clean, but it's widely discussed that it's not necessarily better.

The DRCV is a different story, but I think most people would be happier on a shock that is easily replaced. My worst nemesis is the proprietary part. In 10 years, these frames will all be duds unless somebody figures out a way to fit new shocks. Fox will stop servicing them and nobody is going to bother building a replacement. It's not that the DRCV setup is bad, it's that it's apparently less compatible with normal shock mounts....and it's unlikely that it will every perform quite as well as a good coil for downhill specific applications.

That being said, I loved my fuel and I used it for a couple of light downhill runs. It went just fine, and the ABP was really an asset over rough corners.

 

[William42]

when trek says "full floater" i take it to mean "for the gullible people, we have moar patentz and hella acronyms" and for the less gullible it means "we've come up with some leverage ratios that we really like, and think ride great"

 

[ltr450rider]

So basically no one has anything "bad" to say about the full floater/drcv. Other then the proprietary part, which I completley agree with, I am not a fan of Specialized for that same reason. But who is to say that this wont turn into a new standard. Much like 1 1/8 threadless steerers or 135mm rear ends have been for the past 15 years ,yes I know that this part of the argument is not as effective now with tapered steerers and 142 x 12 rear ends, but they were still proprietary when introduced. They got rid of a DU bushing which wears much quicker and needs more replacement over a cartridge bearing, and the full floater relieves stress on the frame, which means less prone to fatigue and cracking. Even if you dont agree with "more plush" part of it, whats wrong with less stress and fatigue on you expensive a$$ frame?

As far as people who want to change the shock...If you are buying this bike to put a coil shock on it, your buying the wrong bike! Go buy yourself an Enduro Evo or some other park style bike. All you are trying to do is take something thats already been specifically built and tuned for its parts and turn it into someting that it's not!