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Nope, I'm good, I don't need your help

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
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SF
Bumbling Good Samaritan can be sued

Bob Egelko, Chronicle Staff Writer

Friday, December 19, 2008

(12-18) 17:43 PST SAN FRANCISCO -- A Good Samaritan whose well-meaning but careless rescue effort injures an accident victim can be sued for damages, the state Supreme Court ruled Thursday.

The court said California's shield against liability for emergency help applies only to people trying to provide medical help.

The 4-3 ruling allows a 27-year-old Los Angeles woman to go to trial in her suit against a friend who pulled her out of a wrecked car and, in the process, allegedly caused injuries that left her permanently paralyzed. The friend, Lisa Torti, said she had seen smoke and thought the car was about to explode, but other witnesses said they had seen no signs of danger.

The court majority said the law Torti cited to try to dismiss the lawsuit was intended only to encourage people to learn first aid and use it in emergencies, not to give Good Samaritans blanket immunity when they act negligently. Dissenting justices said the ruling would discourage people from trying to save lives.

The case dates from 2004, when a group of friends including Torti and Alexandra Van Horn left a bar in suburban Chatsworth (Los Angeles County) in two cars after a Halloween party.

The car in which Van Horn was a passenger went out of control and hit a light pole. Torti, in the other car, pulled Van Horn out just before emergency crews arrived to take her to the hospital, where she underwent surgery for a spinal cord injury and a lacerated liver.

Torti testified that she had carried her friend out carefully, with one arm under her legs and one behind her back. But Van Horn said Torti had grabbed her by the arm and yanked her out.

Other witnesses said Torti had set Van Horn down next to the car, despite Torti's testimony that she was worried the vehicle would blow up.

Torti sought to dismiss the suit under a 1980 state law that bars damage suits against anyone who "in good faith, and not for compensation, renders emergency care at the scene of an emergency" - even for negligent acts that injure the victim.

Although the law does not distinguish between types of emergency care, the court majority said the context shows it was meant to be limited to medical care. The law was part of a package of legislation on emergency medical services, Justice Carlos Moreno said in the majority opinion.
Read the ruling

The court's ruling can be read at:

links.sfgate.com/ZFSI

The case is Van Horn vs. Watson, S152360. E-mail Bob Egelko at begelko@sfchronicle.com.
 

FlyinPolack

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
371
0
The Sue-er is a money grubbing scumbag. Her friend was only trying to help & she sues her for it? If I'm in a smoking car, get my ass out by any means necessary! Dead is a little worse than paralyzed...
How does anyone know that the girl wasn't paralyzed before she was even pulled out of the car?
This country is fuller of the suck every day..:rant:
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
The Sue-er is a money grubbing scumbag. Her friend was only trying to help & she sues her for it? If I'm in a smoking car, get my ass out by any means necessary! Dead is a little worse than paralyzed...
How does anyone know that the girl wasn't paralyzed before she was even pulled out of the car?
This country is fuller of the suck every day..:rant:
I think the good samaritan is a Darwin award winner.

First of all, cars rarely blow up in accidents, unless it catches on fire, which this did not. I bet the samaritan has watched too many tv shows.

Second, moving any accident victim there is a chance for spinal damage. Unless the car was on fire, I would wait for emergency staff.

If the car was on fire, I would take as much care as possible.

Finally, I don't think I would sue, but this woman is paralyzed because of her friend (and probably leaving a bar tells you something too).
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Ya, I'm with Sanjuro. Unless you see flames, DON"T TOUCH ME! The GS probably saw a busted radiator and freaked out.

That said, I really don't think the woman should be able to be sued. Some states have a Duty to Rescue law which *requires* you to help...

OLYMPIA – April 28, 2005 – Gov. Christine Gregoire today signed thirty-five bills into law including the “Good Samaritan Law” which makes it a misdemeanor offense to fail to assist a person who has suffered substantial bodily harm, provided that the person could reasonably summon assistance without danger to himself or herself.
 

Defenestrated

Turbo Monkey
Mar 28, 2007
1,657
0
Earth
If there was no indication that the car was going to catch on fire she should really have left her alone, it is very possible that by getting her out of the car a part of her fractured vertebrae severed the spinal cord.
 

chicodude

The Spooninator
Mar 28, 2004
1,054
2
Paradise
If there was no indication that the car was going to catch on fire she should really have left her alone, it is very possible that by getting her out of the car a part of her fractured vertebrae severed the spinal cord.
But to someone who knows jack**** about cars may think transmission fluid is gas and So on....


This ruling is bull****.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
From talking to a lawyer friend (yes, I said that) this weekend, sounds like the ruling was pretty sound.

Able-bodied friend was wasted and freaking out for no reason, and started yarding on her broken friend to yank her out of the car. Good Samaritan Law is not license to be a complete bat**** crazy idiot just because your drunk ass perceives an emergency situation.

There were other friends at the scene, and you will note no comments from them defending her. They saw all this happen and were horrified, though too drunk themselves to know whether to stop it or not.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
I just thought of this:

What is the plaintiff going to get from the defendant? The millions of dollars required for long term health care?

While her dumbass friend should not have pulled her from the car, is the plaintiff going to sue the bar, the car manufacturer, the EMT's, the fire departement....

Life sucks, and she should watch Murderball and move on.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
I just thought of this:

What is the plaintiff going to get from the defendant? The millions of dollars required for long term health care?

While her dumbass friend should not have pulled her from the car, is the plaintiff going to sue the bar, the car manufacturer, the EMT's, the fire departement....

Life sucks, and she should watch Murderball and move on.
No, the plaintiff is suing the defendant, who is the only one who was grossly negligent. I don't know what her assets are, but as someone who has known a few people who were horribly injured in accidents and were unable to cover the costs for needed care and services that insurance wouldn't (not frivolous ****... chronic pain, insomnia, etc.), I can say that it makes much more sense for the defendant to bear that cost burden than the plaintiff and/or her family.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
No, the plaintiff is suing the defendant, who is the only one who was grossly negligent. I don't know what her assets are, but as someone who has known a few people who were horribly injured in accidents and were unable to cover the costs for needed care and services that insurance wouldn't (not frivolous ****... chronic pain, insomnia, etc.), I can say that it makes much more sense for the defendant to bear that cost burden than the plaintiff and/or her family.
I don't disagree with that idea, except it can be very difficult to extract settlements.

I believe OJ never paid the Goldmans a dime.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
I don't disagree with that idea, except it can be very difficult to extract settlements.

I believe OJ never paid the Goldmans a dime.
Fair point on pissing up a rope.

From the plaintiff's point of view, either her family has to find several $100k in money or the defendant does. It'll be just as hard for either of them (assuming everyone involved is relatively middle or lower class). If I were in her position I'd probably do the same.

I know of a specific situation where a college kid was basically left with no choice but to sue his school, his former fraternity, and several of his friends after a college roadtrip accident, because med insurance wouldn't cover his chronic pain (like screaming, writhing pain) and his parents had burned though every penny they had. What do you do? Live in pain, or try to find someone, anyone, to help you? Tough position.

(insert plug for universal healthcare here)
 

4xBoy

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2006
7,443
3,556
Minneapolis
In the end I feel this law is a fail, but I believe that most "smart" people wouldn't really need to worry cause they wouldn't panic and create further problems in a accident.

But alas, I fail cause I believe that some people are smart.
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
In the end I feel this law is a fail, but I believe that most "smart" people wouldn't really need to worry cause they wouldn't panic and create further problems in a accident.

But alas, I fail cause I believe that some people are smart.
Unless you are a robot objectivist, most people would be flipping out trying to save their friend.

Sure, it isn't a rational thing when you are sitting behind a computer, but in the heat of the moment, the person was just trying to help someone and should be protected from being sued. Most civilized countries have Good Samaritan laws.
 

4xBoy

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2006
7,443
3,556
Minneapolis
Unless you are a robot objectivist, most people would be flipping out trying to save their friend.

Sure, it isn't a rational thing when you are sitting behind a computer, but in the heat of the moment, the person was just trying to help someone and should be protected from being sued. Most civilized countries have Good Samaritan laws.
Yes you are correct, the situation is different every time and everyone has a different reaction to what they see.

But the point I missed trying to make was most people will never be in this position, I feel sorry for the ones that are.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
and now, they can be ticketed, too: Injured good Samaritan ticketed for jaywalking
DENVER — A good Samaritan who pushed three people out of the path of a pickup before he was struck and injured has been ticketed for jaywalking.

Family members say 58-year-old Jim Moffett and another man were helping two elderly women cross a busy Denver street in a snowstorm.

Moffett suffered bleeding in the brain, broken bones, a dislocated shoulder and a possible ruptured spleen. He remained hospitalized Wednesday.

The State Patrol issued the citation. Trooper Ryan Sullivan told the Rocky Mountain News that despite Moffett's intentions, jaywalking caused the accident.

The other good Samaritan was also cited for jaywalking. The pickup driver was cited for careless driving causing injury.

It's not clear if the women were cited. The patrol didn't return calls.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,213
22
Blindly running into cactus
Finally, I don't think I would sue, but this woman is paralyzed because of her friend (and probably leaving a bar tells you something too).
actually, the "victim" is paralyzed because she was in a car accident...probably her fault too! i hope her wheelchair hits a pothole and flips into a puddle of water. suing a friend for trying to help is just plain inhuman.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
actually, the "victim" is paralyzed because she was in a car accident...probably her fault too! i hope her wheelchair hits a pothole and flips into a puddle of water. suing a friend for trying to help is just plain inhuman.
What I take from this accident is to be prepared.

I am not the kind of person to drive pass an accident like this and say "Not My Problem".

I've taken some basic first aid this month, and I feel like I might be able to save someone in this kind of incident.

The car accident? Who knows whose fault it was? Was the good samaritan ready to help? No.