[BC VAN]

It's been well established on RM that people aren't to stoked with norba,

I'm not looking to stir the pot or get into a pissing contest but i'm curious if we could have an ideal sanction or event what would you do different.


Aside from the obvious "give pro's prize money" what could norba or another sanction do to make riders feel like they get a good value for the money they spend.

Different formats , different rules, 50 races whatever..think outside the box.

from a riders prespective,
I would like to see an extra day of practice put on the schedule so we can ride our bikes more & pay the lift op's for an extra couple hours again so we can get more time on our bikes.

from a business prespective,
I would love to see usa cycling buck up and get television time....10,000 members @ $60 bucks a pop, you could get some good television for that type of money & the teams would be able to go out and get some corperate dollars to pay the top riders.

 

[Bicyclist]

More time between riders to help reduce passing. If that takes too long, have Expert/Semi-pro/Pro on one day and Begginer/Sport on another.

 

[Sherpa]

More time between riders to help reduce passing. If that takes too long, have Expert/Semi-pro/Pro on one day and Begginer/Sport on another.

Ex/Sport/Beg is on one day now.

Needs better registraion, more practice time in the form of hours (not days), and just a better attitude. Cycle Cyndicate and TBB guys always seem like complete dicks to me except for a select few.

 

[Jeremy R]

See: US Open

 

[Cant Climb]

See: US Open

Let's throw everyone into 2 classes at all the nationals and on the same course......sounds like a fun time....!!

 

[Jeremy R]

Let's throw everyone into 2 classes at all the nationals and on the same course......sounds like a fun time....!!

Was it not a fun time?
If you did not have fun there, it might be time for a different avenue,
Roller derby perhaps?
Do you enjoy the clusterfack that is a Norba National now?
This is not '98 when the Nationals were well ran.
You been to any in the last couple of years?
There is no comparison between the two.
Hopefully, Snowshoe will be this year, as we are getting to ride other areas besides the course to make up for our Norba practice being over at 10:00 am.
Weaksauce.

 

[Cant Climb]

Was it not a fun time?
If you did not have fun there, it might be time for a different avenue,
Roller derby perhaps?
Do you enjoy the clusterfack that is a Norba National now?
This is not '98 when the Nationals were well ran.
You been to any in the last couple of years?
There is no comparison between the two.
Hopefully, Snowshoe will be this year, as we are getting to ride other areas besides the course to make up for our Norba practice being over at 10:00 am.
Weaksauce.

Snowshoe......4-5 runs and i'm toast....what the hell does anyone need 4 hours of practice for...?...........Get your shiitte together and get out there and make sure your bike works.....you got plently of time...

The early morning slime i could do without though.....

I've been going to Nats since 98 like you say.....and at the end of the event i look around to my friends and people i ride/race against all the time and they are all exhausted and most of the time upset........nationals are tuff, mentally and physically and finanacially......this is a source for some (not all) of the Norba Whining.....

 

[Jeremy R]

Snowshoe......4-5 runs and i'm toast....what the hell does anyone need 4 hours of practice for...?...........Get your shiitte together and get out there and make sure your bike works.....you got plently of time...

The early morning slime i could do without though.....

I've been going to Nats since 98 like you say.....and at the end of the event i look around to my friends and people i ride/race against all the time and they are all exhausted and most of the time upset........nationals are tuff, mentally and physically and finanacially......this is a source for some (not all) of the Norba Whining.....

Of course they are tough.
They are supposed to be.
If it wasn't hard then everybody would do it.
We could call it church league softball.

Last year, I was getting in 7 or 8 runs at Snowshoe in the knee deep mud.
I realize that is not normal, but I am the kind of rider that needs that much practice to feel really comfortable on the course. So, it is nice to have the option. But I ain't complaining though. Now that we are having practice on Thursday, it Saul Good.
And my original comment on the US Open was dealing with the good organization for the event. I hear ya on the different classes front. I can't say I would enjoy lining up with Sam Hill at every race.

 

[WheelieMan]

Was it not a fun time?
If you did not have fun there, it might be time for a different avenue,
Roller derby perhaps?
Do you enjoy the clusterfack that is a Norba National now?
This is not '98 when the Nationals were well ran.
You been to any in the last couple of years?
There is no comparison between the two.
Hopefully, Snowshoe will be this year, as we are getting to ride other areas besides the course to make up for our Norba practice being over at 10:00 am.
Weaksauce.

If Norba had only downhill races, I'm sure the events would be organized better. I think part of the problem is that Norba has too many events; Downhill, Mountaincross, Cross Country, Short Track, SuperD, and sometimes Marathon. Giving each discipline enough time to practice can be nearly impossible, especially with multiple courses crossing each other.

Now compare that to the US Open. It's just a downhill race with only 2 classes, one course (I'm assuming) It's no surprise that they put on a better event. So comparing the two events is really not fair.

 

[Jeremy R]

If Norba had only downhill races, I'm sure the events would be organized better. I think part of the problem is that Norba has too many events; Downhill, Mountaincross, Cross Country, Short Track, SuperD, and sometimes Marathon. Giving each discipline enough time to practice can be nearly impossible, especially with multiple courses crossing each other.

Now compare that to the US Open. It's just a downhill race with only 2 classes, one course (I'm assuming) It's no surprise that they put on a better event. So comparing the two events is really not fair.

True.
Good points.
The original poster did ASK what we wanted to see though, so I gave an example.
I think most of us would be happy with the way the Nationals used to be ran.
They are just now doing things like cutting pratice times, and all that.
The only reason I complain about Nationals now, is because of how much I have loved them in the past.

 

[Mani_UT]

Ok, don't burn me for saying that but I think Nationals should be expert / semi / pro only (or even semi and pro only). That would solve a lot of the practice and logistical issues and keep the focus where it should be.
You are racing beg, sport or even expert? That's what regional races should be for.

Anyway, just my 2c

 

[thespackler]

I cant see how anyone could complain about the US Open... So far this season is was easily the BEST DH event in this country. Most cash, excellent course, course maintenance, near flawless organization. Also NORBAs been running events for years, Diablo has only bee running them for 3 yrs and its already the top DH event.

 

[WheelieMan]

I cant see how anyone could complain about the US Open... So far this season is was easily the BEST DH event in this country. Most cash, excellent course, course maintenance, near flawless organization. Also NORBAs been running events for years, Diablo has only bee running them for 3 yrs and its already the top DH event.

Because that's all it is, a downhill event. If only there was a US open out here in the west...

So I don't understand what an Open event is. Can anyone declare their event the US Open?

 

[thespackler]

It doesnt matter..The US Open took all the extra fluff out of racing and just made it a sick event with more money that all the NORBAS put together.

Its "Open" because their arent a ton of unneccesary categories and you, the rider, have the option of going "pro", not NORBA.

 

[Winger]

norba should get a team or professional builders to build the 4x and slalom a little bit more in advance. Then maintain them so they arent as tore up after 1 or 2 practices on them. Also they should let experts do their downhill runs by their national ranking. cuz experts always catch each other and its no good. Idaho was a pretty rad 4x tho... build more courses to that standard... snowshoe should be rad

 

[Cant Climb]

It doesnt matter..The US Open took all the extra fluff out of racing and just made it a sick event with more money that all the NORBAS put together.

Its "Open" because their arent a ton of unneccesary categories and you, the rider, have the option of going "pro", not NORBA.

You have raced less then 2 times in your life i would bet anything.....you have nearly zero background or knowledge.....you have never entered a Norba race...you have never been to a national.....you have know idea or any clue what the other cycling disciplines are about........you know nothing about cycling in general.......you really know nothing about DH mountainbiking.....

 

[thespackler]

You have no clue. The US Open offers what NORBA dreams of offering.

 

[WheelieMan]

It doesnt matter..The US Open took all the extra fluff out of racing and just made it a sick event with more money that all the NORBAS put together.

Its "Open" because their arent a ton of unneccesary categories and you, the rider, have the option of going "pro", not NORBA.

I realize that. My question is, what is stopping another venue from creating a second "US Open". The format sounds pretty cool, and I can see it catching on at other events. Is there some kind of governing body that declares what event can be called "The US Open of DH mountain biking"? Or can anyone use the term?

 

[Transcend]

Right - so let the 300+ experts choose to enter the pro category at a NORBA..and then subsequently die when kirkaldies comes down like a bat out of hell giggling like a school girl as he sends experts flying like bugs on his windshield.

While that would be amusing, it would be dangerous for everyone involved.

The only useful suggestion i have is to get rid of the ridiculous events (super D) make sure that XC and DH trails do not cross and add an extra day of practice. That way you can run DH practice runs all day for 3 days - starting with beginner, then sport then expert then semi pro/pro. That way pro practice is something like 2-5 and if you get a flat, you still have time to get out on course after you fix it.

I do understand why they want pros up and about early, so the fans can see them. So this would need to be resolved - maybe a manadatory appearance deal. Great all pros have to be at their trucks from 10-12 for autographs, chatting with frans etc. Make it NASCAR.

 

[ChrisKring]

I realize that. My question is, what is stopping another venue from creating a second "US Open". The format sounds pretty cool, and I can see it catching on at other events. Is there some kind of governing body that declares what event can be called "The US Open of DH mountain biking"? Or can anyone use the term?

US Trademark law.

 

[Zutroy]

Right - so let the 300+ experts choose to enter the pro category at a NORBA..and then subsequently die from kirkaldies comes down like a bat out of hell giggling like a school girl as as sends experts flying like bigs on his windshield.

While that woudl be amusing, it would be dangerous for everyone involved.

The only useful suggestion i have is to get rid of the ridiculous events (super D) make sure that XC and DH trails do not cross and add an extra day of practice. That way you can run DH practice runs all day for 3 days - starting with beginner, then sport then expert then semi pro/pro. That way pro practice is something like 2-5 and if you get a flat, you still have time to get out on course after you fix it.

I do understand why they want pros up and about early, so the fans can see them. So this would need to be resolved - maybe a manadatory appearance deal. Great all pros have to be at their trucks from 10-12 for autographs, chatting with frans etc. Make it NASCAR.

yeah been there done that, remember the mess practice was when expert/pro practice was at the same time. Nothing like droppin into a section and seeing peaty coming at ya like a missle.

All good suggestions, except for the superD thing. I don't think it's a problem. Super D practice is really short like and hour at most races and usually doesn't get in the way. It's a good way to let people kinda try DH with out the fear of DH. At DV they made the SemiPro XC guys do it, and after it was over I've never heard XC guys sound like they had so much fun. One guy i talked to was like i've never done anything even close to DH before, that was awesome. So i think it could help DH in the racing.

 

[Zutroy]

US Trademark law.

I don't think it's trademarked you've got the US open in alot of sports these days. Golf, tennis, Surfing, Swimming....etc.

 

[Transcend]

All good suggestions, except for the superD thing. I don't think it's a problem. Super D practice is really short like and hour at most races and usually doesn't get in the way. It's a good way to let people kinda try DH with out the fear of DH. At DV they made the SemiPro XC guys do it, and after it was over I've never heard XC guys sound like they had so much fun. One guy i talked to was like i've never done anything even close to DH before, that was awesome. So i think it could help DH in the racing.

The race takes a little longer then an hour. i have nothing against super d, i just think it's another ridiculous event clogging up the calendar. Now they have to schedule XC, DH, 4x, marathon and super D...same venue..and a few thousand riders. Not to mention some may be doing more then one event, so miss a practice to an event etc.

Just means more confusion and mroe bad scheduling..they need to set 1 schedule that 100% works - then make it that schedule for EVERY SINGLE national. Why have a diff schedule at each event?

 

[thespackler]

Right - so let the 300+ experts choose to enter the pro category at a NORBA..and then subsequently die when kirkaldies comes down like a bat out of hell giggling like a school girl as he sends experts flying like bugs on his windshield.

While that would be amusing, it would be dangerous for everyone involved.

That didnt happen at the Open and there was a pretty stacked field... The Open Class had i almost 200 riders and it was never an issue.

 

[Cant Climb]

You have no clue. The US Open offers what NORBA dreams of offering.

Norba has over 100 races per event it runs the series in 8 different venues.......

I am not Norba's biggest fan but you really are clueless.......the US Open is run pretty well.......and let's say its a future model for all NCS's event.....now take it and add 5 more events, 5 more categories of skill and 8-10 age groups and drag you shiitte to run the race all across the country.........lets see if the model works then..

I still want to know about your vast experience on the cycling scene......fill me in....

 

[ChrisKring]

I don't think it's trademarked you've got the US open in alot of sports these days. Golf, tennis, Surfing, Swimming....etc.

Your right, I checked. Shawn needs to get this going to prevent it from happening.

But there are lots of other US Open of bla bla bla trademarked. Check for yourself at http://www.uspto.gov/

 

[Zutroy]

Norba has over 100 races it runs in 8 states.......you are an idiot.

I am not Norba's biggest fan but you really are clueless.....

Now get lost......

Actually NORBA really doesn't run anything. They area sanctioning body. USAC is one of the worst run NGBs in the US, there is no denying that. There is no difference between what USAC does and USA Triathlong, US Swimming, etc, except those guys understand how to make things run smooth and keep their membership happy.

 

[thespackler]

Norba has over 100 races it runs in 8 states.......you are an idiot.

I am not Norba's biggest fan but you really are clueless.....

Now get lost......

Are you serious?

Who the hell cares about all the little races?

How am i clueless? Norba has ****ty sponsors, no cash purse, ****ty prizes for ams, bad organization and a REALLY BAD reputation. You cant deny that.

 

[Transcend]

That didnt happen at the Open and there was a pretty stacked field... The Open Class had i almost 200 riders and it was never an issue.

Apparently you have never attended a norba national. People upgrade to semi pro for the SOLE reason of getting out of ewxpert practice. It is a trainwreck. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

It always has been, and always will be. Expert is what would become of pro. There is such a wide diversity of talent in expert from super fast to super slow. Add into the mix the mega fast top pros, and it is a disaster waiting to happen.

When you have raced NMBS races for almost 10 years like some of us, you will understand.

 

[WheelieMan]

The race takes a little longer then an hour. i have nothing against super d, i just think it's another ridiculous event clogging up the calendar. Now they have to schedule XC, DH, 4x, marathon and super D...same venue..and a few thousand riders. Not to mention some may be doing more then one event, so miss a practice to an event etc.

Just means more confusion and mroe bad scheduling..they need to set 1 schedule that 100% works - then make it that schedule for EVERY SINGLE national. Why have a diff schedule at each event?

The event they need to get rid of is Short Track XC. I don't understand how riding around in circles on gravel paths is mountain biking...

 

[Cant Climb]

The event they need to get rid of is Short Track XC. I don't understand how riding around in circles on gravel paths is mountain biking...

Dumb event 'as is' but could be a good event.....they execute the idea poorly IMO.....reminds me of watching cyclocross racers ride around softball fields....

 

[Transcend]

The event they need to get rid of is Short Track XC. I don't understand how riding around in circles on gravel paths is mountain biking...

to be honest, I love watching STXC. You will normally have about 90% of the pro DH field out watching. The pur epower being put down by the men in insane. It is like a freight train going by - like wacthing a TDF time trial (with 50% less juice!)

It is also run usually exclusively through the tech area and thus doesnt really foul up proceedings for anyone else. Best STXC ever was 3 years ago at mt snow. It ran through the tech area and village. You could see almost the entire loop sitting on top of team trucks, it was awesome!

 

[stiksandstones]

I think they (big promoters and NORBA) need to specialize in events and do them 110%, uphill, downhill, slalom, super d, stxc, xc, point to point all in the same weekend-is stupid (although rare, does happen).

Put on a marquee event, EVEN IF IT'S LESS of them, just do them right. I would much rather see 1-2-3 marquee events than 6-7-8 struggling roaches.

From a industry standpoint, offer the teams something more than a parking spot for spending a few hundred to thousands of dollars to park a trailer. Do people goto the races to check out the latest bikes on display or checkout some pro in their trailer-NO, but they do add to the luster of the "NATIONALS" and should be kept that way, as it stands now many big programs are 'selecting' venues, which is stark contrast from the days when we as team managers said "WE CAN NOT MISS THAT NCS RACE".


BC VAN-you have opened up the biggest can of worms ever, there has been a few threads over the years in here about what to do to make NCS races better, but sadly no one with any power or interest has read them-obviously.

 

[Zutroy]

Yeah STXC is great when done right. Go back old school and put jumps and stuff back in the course.

 

[Cant Climb]

Yeah STXC is great when done right. Go back old school and put jumps and stuff back in the course.

At Mt.Snow in 99' fresh of his first TDF win Lance Armstrong was seen catching air in the STXC.....i think he finished 4th that day........i dont remember his exact quote but was along the lines of , "Thats the most painful thing i ever did in my life".......that course also had a cool woods section.....

 

[Transcend]

Yup, small jumps on the stxc courses ruled. Mt Snow did that the year it ruled.

I agree with stik on this one. Less events, better events. No more crappy events that no one wants to attend (including the bloody pro athletes).

 

[Zutroy]

At Mt.Snow in 99' fresh of his first TDF win Lance Armstrong was seen catching air in the STXC.....i think he finished 4th that day........i dont remember his exact quote but was along the lines of , "Thats the most painful thing i ever did in my life".......that course also had a cool woods section.....

Yep he did say that still have it on tape. He also said after the XC race that was way harder than anything in the TDF, while he was gasping for air. That was nice course, plus the mud. Anyone remeber the old cactus cup course, that was a blast, tight turns, nice jump.

 

[WheelieMan]

Yup, small jumps on the stxc courses ruled. Mt Snow did that the year it ruled.

I agree with stik on this one. Less events, better events. No more crappy events that no one wants to attend (including the bloody pro athletes).

Jumps? I can't imagine jumping a bike with a 130mm stem!

 

[jackalope]

Didn't see it posted already, but what about a 365 day liscense from the date of purchase? Versus the current date of purchase to December situation...

Not a huge deal if you just remember to buy it every January, but a lot of folks I ride with are a little put off when they buy a liscense in May and it expires 6 months later...

Also, trying to buy a liscense online is a REAL pain in the ass on the current website...

 

[merrrrjig]

Well this tread has seemed to just be a bitching thread, do what was stated first, tell us what you would like changed, I would like to see more of a world cup 4X courses, For DH I would like it for spectators to have better access to the course, and let them up the chairlift or another chairlift that throws them in the middle of the course. If DH ever gets the the TV I would like to see mid timing sections so you could see if the rider is slower or faster in the top and bottom sections. From a photographers standpoint, the DH courses are pretty sweet, 4x isnt too bad but they do need some bigger jumps, the media rooms the put together in DV and idaho were killer, snowmass sucked for all media. Ill prolly post later, I gotta think of some more things!