[Jeremy R]

Originally posted by Acadian
I've always wondered about that. Is it that expensive to run lifts? I can understand they make less $$ with lift tickets in the summer, since there are more skiers than MTBers. But I was thinking since in the summer you don't need to run the artificial snow machines, don't need to plow the parking lots, no need for heat, etc... Shouldn’t expenditure also be quite lower in the summer? I have no clue what it takes to run a ski report...reason why I'm asking.

It costs way more than you think just to turn the lifts on.
Most places have some crap about buying the power for the month. So, if they are having a race just for one weekend,
then they waste alot of dough on the lifts. While this does not apply to BB, I know this happens at other places.

 

[1000-Oaks]

Riding is way more dangerous than skiing. The lift guy said that they usually have one person hauled off the slopes a day during the winter (6,000 skiers) and one or two hauled off a day during the summer (100-200 bikers). Not good odds if those numbers are accurate...

 

[ChrisKring]

On the lift expense, we paid $200/hour for a slow, 400 foot tall, 2 person lift at Boyne Mountain in 2002 when we ran a race there. In 2003, we were supposed to pay about the same for the lift where we ran races on a 700 foot tall triple. However, the goverment didn't approve the lift for summertime use so we spent an outragous amount of money to pay the hill to shuttle people in trucks.

So for an average day: $1600

 

[ChrisKring]

Originally posted by chromegoddess
this troubles me deeply and it's the most common response in regards to haruko's crash. i saw her clean those things twice with finesse before the fateful crash. i don't know for sure if you were regarding her when you mentioned some of the BB jumps being over some peoples skill level, but i wish we could all regard this woman's life and untimely death within our sport in that context alone. maybe someone can help me understand why people are compelled to reduce her existence in our sport to the shape of those jumps and the conclusion so many make that she was inadequately skilled..??

No, I did not intend to imply that she was not qualified to jump them. My only observation of her riding was through the whoop section just before the jumps.

My intent was to say that the jumps themself were not unsafe. I have seen much more dangerous sections without option of rolling at east coast races. The issue with Big Bear is that it's the potential speed that is dangerous. Crashing on a double jump at 40mph is far more dangerous than even crashing into a rock at 10mph. A lot of stuff can happen real fast at 40mph and energy is equal to MV^2. It's really up to the rider to decide how fast they are going to go. Even the most skilled riders get seriously injured.

Personally, I am always hesitant about hitting those jumps at such a high race of speed. Having spent a ton of time on the dirt bike over the past year, I am starting to get more comfortable with hitting big jumps. I still wish that the USFS would let TBB run a technical course through the woods.

 

[ÆX]

i hate big bear. i with bmx man and yeti dher.

i will stay home. not like i even planned on ever going again

have fun it the "rock gardens" guys.
making obsticles to make a track more tech is the lamest thing in the world! THE WORLD!

 

[MMike]

Originally posted by Acadian
I've always wondered about that. Is it that expensive to run lifts? I can understand they make less $$ with lift tickets in the summer, since there are more skiers than MTBers. But I was thinking since in the summer you don't need to run the artificial snow machines, don't need to plow the parking lots, no need for heat, etc... Shouldn’t expenditure also be quite lower in the summer? I have no clue what it takes to run a ski report...reason why I'm asking.

Well to hear the people who run Snoqualmie tell it, you'd swear that they have to pave the mountain with gold every night.

I still say that paying to practice is BS. I'm officially boycotting.

 

[intensified]

-first, if any of you died on a course wouldn't you like the respect of some kind of service to be remembered there where it happened? i think i would.
-second,if you were on a course with a lung being poked by a broken rib ,youd definatly want help asap, the emt's would be your best friend at that time.(with a fast ambulance ride,not waiting for one).
-paying for practice is a bummer,i'm not into racing enough to go to every norba,but, if i was whats another 40 bucks on top of the whatever you spend racing at one race.i get the idea its thousands to attend all the events with lost work time and all factored in.

-For the rider who lost her in the accident,those that knew her probably know best of what should be done to remember her and what she'd of wanted.And who knows maybe they spoke up already and want it quiet.

 

[heikkihall]

I think last year I paid 10 for practice? I really dont remember but im like 90% sure it was something like 10 bucks. Sure it sucks but for 10 bucks, whatever, ill complain a bit, then pay it and then have a blast riding the course. $40 though? F that ill hike the damn mountain for that price!

 

[intensified]

its even more fun paying 10$ a day to park at mt sno.

 

[heikkihall]

I agree Whistler would be sick. I cant wait until this summer, hopefully Ill be able to get up there and ride a bit and maybe it will change my mind about the whole "free" riding thing. I love being out there riding my bike, its just awesome, but for me absolutely nothing beats racing. Im an extremely competitive person and usually try to turn everything into a race anyway. I just love the rush of competition and I cant explain it. Ill be racing something until the day I die.

 

[MMike]

Originally posted by heikkihall
maybe it will change my mind about the whole "free" riding thing. .

It totally did for me. I couldn't care less about racing now.

I still say we organize a prtoest rally at Big Bear over the $40. Get you picket signs!! NO NUKES!! FREE NELSON MANDELA!! SAVE THE WHALES!! FUR IS MURDER!! NO WAR FOR OIL!!

 

[Brian Peterson]

It seems to be the classic situation.... People go there to ride the lifts becuase you can't really do that anywhere else in So. Cal. People complain becuase of the lack of legal trails, but we still go. Big Bear offers us a chance to ride, I am willing to bet at a loss to them, hoping more people will come and eventually the summers will become profitable, too. $20.00 to ride all day isn't bad, as long as there is enough to keep you from getting bored after 3 runs. Hell, if they used more than a quarter of the mountain in the summer, I would be more than happy to pay $20.00 a day. Hey guys, lets ride Westridge.... Again.....

Racing. The lifts, concessions, parking, and cabins on the Snow Summit property are probably the only money the mountain makes. Entry fees go to Norba. I am willing to bet that is how the money goes. AmCup and state races are different, but there is still a lot of overhead for TBB to put on an event. DS/4x was killed by insurance (Not quite sure how that worked...) and by lack of entries at the AmCups. When all of those workers are on OT by that point in the day, costs go way up. Racing isn't the big bussiness every one thinks it is. I see the same thought process at BMX Nationals....

Also, if I were the promoter, I wouldn't be up for the idea of doing a big memorial type of thing. Yes, it was a tragic accident and a reminder of what can happen to any of us when we choose to race. I doubt they want the focus of the event to be on what happened last year. But if the riders want to do something like armbands or memorial stickers, they can't stop you.

Oh well.... Enough rambling...

Ride on!!

Brian

 

[MMike]

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!! GIVE PEACE A CHANCE!! WE SHALL OVERCOME!! HELL NO WE WON'T GO!!

 

[AZRacerX]

Originally posted by Brian Peterson
DS/4x was killed by insurance (Not quite sure how that worked...) and by lack of entries at the AmCups. When all of those workers are on OT by that point in the day, costs go way up.

I always wondered why they didn't just do DS on Sunday during the XC. Maybe they didn't have enough staff? I think having the DS so late in the day was the main reason for lack of participation. Everyone had been practicing and racing DH all day and they were ready for a beer!

 

[-BB-]

Originally posted by BMXman
b!tch, b!tch, b!tch...is all I hear...you expect to be able to practice for 2 days and race on the 3rd for 40 bucks...tell me what lift on the west coast allows that...chairlifts are not cheap you know...I'm with Yeti...you don't like it then keep your arse at home!!:devil:

Like most of Charlie's crew?


OK... DOn't get me wrong. I don't like to hear people bitch, BUT fi they are simply voicing their opinion about a legitimate gripe then they SHOULD make it known. Our sport is not big enough that we can afford to alienate people.

 

[Brian Peterson]

Originally posted by AZRacerX
I always wondered why they didn't just do DS on Sunday during the XC. Maybe they didn't have enough staff? I think having the DS so late in the day was the main reason for lack of participation. Everyone had been practicing and racing DH all day and they were ready for a beer!

I agree... I guess it is either staffing related or they figure people don't want to spend the whole weekend up there... It would be kind of cool to be able to go have a nice dinner and a few drinks on Saturday night, get a good nights sleep and start the DS Sunday morning after some practice.

Brian

 

[-BB-]

Originally posted by Acadian
where is the cheapest place to stay in BB? (excluding camping)

At your in-law's.

:devil:

You going to come down alone or w/ a big group.
If alone, I'll see what I can do to get you a spot on the Futon at Denise's mom's place (bout 5min frmo SnowSummit)

 

[narlus]

Originally posted by Damn True

They called someone up to take the girls spot where I wrecked and she and her (non-EMT) assitant (who was REALLY cute) walked me in my woozy state down to the treatment center

that was a dude. woozy for sure.

 

[spookydave]

Originally posted by -BB-
At your in-law's.

:devil:

My in-law's sold their place a few months ago and moved to Palm Desert.
They were on Moonridge and I could go from the top of summit to their house via Pirates and what ever that fire road is that dumps you out at Bear Mtn. It was all downhill all the way. It was a great way to end the day.

 

[Orvan]

Grumpy!!!
Anyways, on non race weekends, stay home!!! We'd like to have as much run as possible by having shorter lift lines.

 

[spookydave]

Originally posted by Orven
Grumpy!!!
Anyways, on non race weekends, stay home!!! We'd like to have as much run as possible by having shorter lift lines.

I don't know if that's directed at me or not. If it is, well all I can say is that I'll see ya in the lift line!

 

[tmx]

brian p, can you explain your reason for this: "...if I were the promoter, I wouldn't be up for the idea of doing a big memorial type of thing. Yes, it was a tragic accident and a reminder of what can happen to any of us when we choose to race. I doubt they want the focus of the event to be on what happened last year..."

the focus of the event doesn't have to be on haruko's death. the focus of a memorial gathering (say..a total of 20-30 minutes out of four of five days) would be about celebrating this woman and her devotion to a sport we all love and cherish. yes, it was a tragic accident, but a memorial does not have to have the same tragic connotations. i feel strongly that such an organized gathering would have a largely positive effect for all of us.

sucks to ask this, but...bri, would you feel the same about brushing it under the carpet if this happened to lopes, carter, marla, tara, elke, me or you?

okay, all that said, i have to add that i really like your idea of the armband.

 

[Brian Peterson]

T-
Perhaps you and I are different pages here... Like I said, if I was promoting the race, I wouldn't want to remind people about the fact that could have been anyone of us. Heck, I know people who didn't know what happened last year. I, like many others, was shocked when I heard the news last year. If I was promoting the race, I would probably have a moment of slience at some point during the event. Now regarding your comment if it was one of the big names, it wouldn't change my mind, but I think you would have a lot more people would be with you in your efforts.

I understand your point about wanting to celebrate Haruko's life, but not everybody sees it the same way. For some people it would be a highlight of the weekend, for others, another reason to complain on the Internet that there was a half hour delay in the weekend. See where I am going here?

If it was someone close to me, I would just set up my own thing. I wouldn't wait for someone else to do it. If you do it in such a way that it doesn't disrupt the event, I doubt anyone will stop you. That would be bad karma in the worst way. Here's another idea.... Maybe a wreath or memorial near where it happened. Then people can pay their respects as they see fit. There are many small things you can do to honor her memory that would mean alot to the people who were close to her.

BTW, if it was me, I would expect to become a footnote in the history of the race.

Brian

 

[tmx]

cheers to you brian and thanks for the explanation. if i head out there (which depends on this very subject) i will definately do my own personal thing, and can't thank you enough for the wreath and armband suggestions.

clearly though, i've got my heart set on seeing something come from TBB and NORBA for the positive significance of such a gesture. and as crass as this may seem, it would also make me feel a heck of a lot better about handing them my hard earned cash. like they cared...somehow....because our lives ARE on the line when we're out there.

anyway...i realize dh isn't on the grand scale of motocross and NORBA isn't 1/8 the membership of the AMA, but when the young fella died during his qualifying run at the san diego supercross, the following sx race had a memorial to him prior to the main event...in a packed stadium, filled with thousands of mx racers who also could easily lose their lives doing what they love to do. jason ciarletta was relatively unknown and had never qualified for an sx race, but the AMA and promoters saw to it he and his family were properly honored in a timely manner and i wouldn't be surprised if that event forever included a moment of silence in his honor. could be said, sx and mx have had a while longer to fine tune their "machine" and maybe we just need more time.

brian....thanks again for your thoughts and insights.

 

[Brian Peterson]

T-
I hope you make it out to BB.... It would be good to see you again!

You also bring up some good points. Here is another... For a year after Dale Earnhardt's death, the 3rd lap of every race was run under caution in his memory. Even Bubba Stewart paid tribute to Dale by spray painting a black 3 on the infield after winning the Daytona SX this year. But eventually, every one moves on. People will always remember Dale, Jason, and Haruko and what they did, but life goes on.

No need to thank me for the suggestions..... Feel free to run with them. I know her friends and family will appreciate what ever you do for her.

Brian

 

[Damn True]

Brian,
You are a stand up guy.

True

 

[Brian Peterson]

Thanks.... It also helps that Chrome and myself have become pretty good friends over the past couple of seasons. So we can have a difference in opinion without it becoming a 5 alarm flame war.

Brian

 

[tmx]

yes, life does go on and i would hate to think i'm sounding like someone clinging on to her passing, cuz it's not like that in my heart.

got that right, not even a smoke alarm goin' off in here. i have nothing but good thoughts for you mr. peterson and even more-so with the time and energy you took to express yourself on this topic. i too hope my feelings lead to making the trip out there, especially since i'm guessing you won't be heading east for another season. (are you? and hey...why aren't you at spray otter?!)

i'm also extremely grateful to RM for providing the forum for me to express how i feel amongst my peers.

much respect to all y'all,
terry

 

[Brian Peterson]

Terry,
I somehow got out of working Sea Otter this year.... I don't know how or why, but I did.... I was going to go race 4x but I have so much going on right now, I decided to skip it. Priorities, ya know? But I did get my bike ready in case I change my mind...

I don't know about heading back east.... But a Snowshoe trip looks like it could be fun....

Brian

 

[tmx]

(slight thread deraillment)

brian you are a brave western soul for considering wild wet wonderful wet snowshoe wet wet, but i whole-heartedly encourage it. if there is any thing i can do to assist in logistics (shy of paying your airfare) lemme know cuz snowshoe is a blast.

sorry you'll miss racing this w/e, but glad you don't have to work the otter.

 

[MMike]

Originally posted by chromegoddess
work the otter.

heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee

how often do you "work the otter"?

 

[Brian Peterson]

Ok.... That left way too many possibilities......

Terry, you know I'll be getting touch with you if I happen to make it back east....

Brian