[MikeD]

Ok, now that we're in Politics...

I'm leaving for work/vacation now, so I'll make this short, but....

There is a conflict going on here, one in which one side will win and one side will die. (I'm also in the US military, by the way, not that it matters.)

However, war with Al Queada or Iraq (so ironic, considering that Bin Laden's pissed at us for defending Saudi against Hussein...) is going to create more problems for the US. We need to de-emotionalize our 'hit-back' response and see how we can truly win the conflict. Playing into what Hussein so obviously wants (so he can further anti-Americanism) is NOT going to help, as more people flock to the side of the underdogs here.

What will win this war is when the children of the Taliban want Levis and MTV. The people in a lot of other countries don't hate the US intrinsically; they're led to do so by mullahs, sheiks, and others on the top of their socioeconomic heirarchy. The West represents, to them, the end of that supremacy. The west's products, politics, and lifestyle would destroy the 'faith' (HA!) that is keeping their people in the dark ages. Hence, they use the ignorance of their people to their own benefit, and manipulate them to further their own ends.

I'm sure anyone who realized that along with a better standard of living and proper health care and civil rights, he can still be a Muslim, and a good one at that, would be amenable to improving his life materially. So, the answer is not smart bombs but Coca-Cola. Eliminate the source of the conflict, not the people fighting.

That is as repulsive to a lot of people, I'm sure, as a war, given the anti-corporate, anti-globalism sentiment here, but I'm looking at this from a warrior's perspective. A fight that breeds more fights is not one you can win. Would you rather that business profits, or that America be besieged by terrorists for the next 100 years? I'd rather be selling people stuff than killing them.

And I don't necessarily see how war with Iraq will stop anything we're trying to stop. I really feel like we're playing into someone's hands...

Gone to Thanksgiving,

Mike

 

[patconnole]

Originally posted by MikeD


Why be a jackass and post this in the bike forum?? There's a perfectly good political debate forum for it.

Mods, please do your thing.


Ok, now that we're in Politics...

Mike

I want to continue discussing the real problems, and solutions, but I want to make a point about what you've said in the quote above.



I titled this thread "not biking" so people who didn't want to see something out of place wouldn't complain. I started the thread in a popular forum (downhill and dual slalom) with the hopes that a large number of people would at least see it, and be exposed to something they might not have already seen.... basically, to let people who might not care about certain issues (war, Iraq, US and UN policy and motives) know that I, a fellow biker, do care--- hopefully giving them a small inclination to do as well.

By requesting that this discussion be moved to the political forum, you limit the exposure of this subject to only those who seek it out..... those who already have an opinion, want to argue, or want to be patted on the back (I might fit in all these categories)..... You limit the exposure to people who want to click on 'Political Debate'.

I don't own this board, and I'm grateful that we have a place like this...... Whether you are pro-war, anti-war, pro-bush, anti-bush, opinionated, or not, wouldn't you agree that these are at least important issues, and people who might not care should be exposed to people who do (regardless of which side they're on)??

I guess, that is the reason I was being a jackass.

Sort of a moot point, now that we're in this forum.

 

[Sideways]

Originally posted by MikeD
......What will win this war is when the children of the Taliban want Levis and MTV. ....

Then we'll have social and economic control of them!

 

[laura]

Originally posted by patconnole



It's easy to joke about things like this..... to lump it all into one category. I used to think "why are people so pissed? what's with these activists?? Things are fine, what's the problem?"
And when someone would bring up some of the problems, I'd pick on one thing that person was doing (building bike frames, for example) and say "Ah hah! Look at you! You're just as bad as the rest of em!"


Then I'd forget about it and keep chomping down meat, driving my 5 seater car alone, buying one-use-only products.... and still sometimes wonder, "What's the big deal!??"

Well, most of us are comfortable here.... and because of that comfort it's hard for us to look around and see the problems we're causing and problems we're not helping stop. Once you see these problems though, you'll find it hard to joke about them. The institutions around us also make it difficult to see these very real problems, and their solutions. I hope sometime you'll start to look for more than what's been handed to you.... then you might see why Big Oil, and Corporate America, and a huge list of other things are worth more than a joke.

i don't think i could have said it better.

beautiful

 

[1soulrider]

I'm glad to see more enlightened veiws expressed here than one finds on the average street. For everyone I have this advice: THINK! Think about why you react strongly to ideas different from your own, think about why you might belive/disbelive somthing your read or are told, think about sources, think about who gains money and power through the situations you are witnessing, think about the believability of the explainations hammered into you day in , day out. Try to find a film called 'Manufacturing Consent'. Seek out the truth among the lies. And always keep thinking.