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O-hill gang wars

Bearmntpicnic

Monkey
Oct 23, 2005
838
0
charlottesville
There have been a couple of arguments going on at observitory mountain in cville va. I just want to get some opinions.

do you think its right to tear down other peoples free ride stuff?

do you think its right to do this even if the athourities are asking you to before you tell the person who built the stuff first?

Is Page an asshole?

Save O-hill
 
May 24, 2005
333
0
Baltimore
Is it ok to tear down someone's rickety-ass stunts and put up sturdier ones in their place? I say, sure, especially if the stuff hasn't been maintained. But that wasn't your question.
 

Dartman

Old Bastard Mike
Feb 26, 2003
3,916
0
Richmond, VA
Just to play the devils advocate here... :evil:

Build anything on public or private land without the landowner or managers permission and expect it to stay there, you're just kidding yourself.

Why don't you organize yourselves and work through established channels to create a freeride park there with "technical trail features" (we don't call them "stunts" anymore) that are built to last.

http://www.imba.com/resources/freeriding/index.html

If someone builds a stunt without permission and its existence threatens our being able to continue to even ride the trails there I'm taking it out. Sorry. But I will try to work with you to find a compromise with the land managers I've built trust with.

Mike
 

mobius

Turbo Monkey
Jan 25, 2003
2,160
0
Around DC
If it wasn't legally built and is in a high traffic area for other activities besides "freeriding" then its fair game to rip it down. Especially if it was rickety ass stuff.
 

Dartman

Old Bastard Mike
Feb 26, 2003
3,916
0
Richmond, VA
OK here's the deal...

There is potential for a legal freeride terrain park in Walnut Creek Park. It's going to take a lot of work to get the permissions and risk assessments going. There is no guarantee it will happen but there is interest from the county parks and rec dept. The current members of the local mtb club have their plates full with existing trails. There isn't much of a freeride representation among them either. They're willing to work with you if you are,. (even after reading this thread. :p ) So, if you're interested in channeling your energies working with the clubs there is a chance you can have a terrain park that you could be proud of and that will not get torn down. So instead of being pissed off you could be riding some nice new stuff.

What do y'all think about that?

I live in Richmond but would be willing to throw down my help in making this happen. I know lot's of folks down here would too.

Mike
 

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
Freeriders will never be accepted and the debate will go on for ever. My advice to all of you is to just do what you do before your to old to do it. Its been my personal experience that if the things you build dont look like they might collapse at any second they'll usualy stick around for a while. Look for state land that isn't already being used by other types of riders and build there. Hunters are usualy more than happy to use your trails as hunting stands as long as your willing to surrender your place to ride during hunting season. Its a pretty fair trade if you ask me. Never debate an xc guy, you wont win. theres just to many, and there egos are usualy far greater than their skills. I understand your pain, and believe me I've lived it, but on the plus side stunts or whatever you asshats call them these days usualy get boring after a while anyways so being forced to start again isn't always that bad.


BTW wasnt there a thread on this earlier, what was the final straw just out of curiosity. PM me if its a huge ordeal.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,198
4,986
Sleazattle
Dartman said:
OK here's the deal...

There is potential for a legal freeride terrain park in Walnut Creek Park. It's going to take a lot of work to get the permissions and risk assessments going. There is no guarantee it will happen but there is interest from the county parks and rec dept. The current members of the local mtb club have their plates full with existing trails. There isn't much of a freeride representation among them either. They're willing to work with you if you are,. (even after reading this thread. :p ) So, if you're interested in channeling your energies working with the clubs there is a chance you can have a terrain park that you could be proud of and that will not get torn down. So instead of being pissed off you could be riding some nice new stuff.

What do y'all think about that?

I live in Richmond but would be willing to throw down my help in making this happen. I know lot's of folks down here would too.

Mike

I try to participate in the CAMBC trail maintenance as much as possible, which due to frequent work travel is only about 4 times a year. There is a small group of people that bust their asses on a regular basis, their interests do not lie in freeride stuff but there is a possibility of building such things. When participating I do as much as I can just to keep the trails as technical as possible. People who want freeride type stuff need to participate and do work, politically and physically.
 

wood-dog

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2005
1,011
0
the mid-west armpit!
First off i would like to reply to what "The Amish" stated about there being too many XC riders out there.
I know that there are more XC riders out there then there are people who ride around on big hitting bikes and just to state a fact... I DO NOT want to start up anything with any group of riders. I am in fact a XC rider myself and I have been since the late 80's. I started riding before suspension even hit the market, I raced XC through college and into the late 90's. In 2001 I started to make the transistion into the DH scene, but never gave up XC riding. So understand this.... I am not looking for a fight with a group of riders of who I share the same interest with.
We started building at O-hill because there were other "stunts", or what ever you want to call them, already out there that has been standing for who knows how long and we assumed that since those stunts were there, we could add more! Okay, a mistake on our part. And if the school wants to rip them all down because it is their property, fine! I don't have a problem with that. My problem only deals with one person, not the school, and certainly not the XC riders. My home town has a local area where everyone rides, it is Turkey Mountain. And one of the great things about that place was the fact that it has something for everyone. From beginners to hard core racers, XC riders to those of us who like more extreme riding and the cool thing was that everyone could appreciate all the trails from the flats to the jumps and drops. I miss that type of an environment and I was hoping that the same type of environment could be established at O-hill. But believe me, I am not going to put any more effort into O-hill

However, "Dartman" I am more then willing to lend a hand anyway I can to bring in a freeride park up at Walnut Creek. I understand that talk of this is a new subject and I just heard about it for the first time 2 days ago. But I am excited about the possibility about a possible park. Let me know what I can do i.e, meetings, representation, trail maintenance, whatever.. I am willing to do whatever I can to try and establish a location where those of us who want to ride in a different manner can.
Dartman, I will be in touch with you.
 

Matt D

Monkey
Mar 19, 2002
998
0
charlottesville, va
I'm glad to see a thought out reply, thanks wood-dog. I know those stunts at O'hill have been there for years now, and occassionally some local kids will maintain them a little, which I think has been accepted as being fine. I know I hit that little trail by the wind tunnel every time I'm up there.

But recently there's been a few things that have really gotten too much attention. Trees were cut down to build some stuff. There are a lot of people who use those trails who absolutely will not stand for cutting trees down (professors, donors, alumni, etc). Another thing I've heard from many different people is that somebody burned down a tree or a tree stump? WTF? Finally, I heard last night that death threats were carved into the stunts and surrounding trees? I can understand not liking the guy who tore everything down (he thinks he owns O'hill from what I can tell), but I'm sure you'd agree with me wood-dog, that flaming an internet board and calling all people who wear spandex fags is not a good idea.

I hope this is all behind everyone, b/c I didn't want to come back to RM just to argue about O'hill. I'm glad to see this interest in Walnut Creek though! I know I struggled with WC b/c I was really the only one with any experience building and riding freeride stuff, and I was looked to by the club to do a lot of work and head the whole thing up; I just don't have to time to do all that. Please contact CAMBC (www.cambc.org) and let them know you're interested! Right now, we would just be looking for folks to help with the paperwork, planning, and proposal portion of it. But after all the details are worked out, we'll really need some hard workers (especially those with experience!) to bring it to life.

edit: wood-dog, PM me. I tried to email/PM you but it's not available.
 

riderx

Monkey
Aug 14, 2001
704
0
Fredrock
Dartman said:
Build anything on public or private land without the landowner or managers permission and expect it to stay there, you're just kidding yourself.
Exactly. Usually it's not a question of "if" it will get torn down, it's just a question of "when" it will get torn down.
 
May 24, 2005
333
0
Baltimore
What I find interesting are the parallels between freeriding trails and street skateparks. I used to skate back in the early 90's (Bones Brigade days) and there were always problems finding dedicated skateparks. There was one large park setup in Timonium in, of all things, a basketball court of a school and it thrived for a couple years until it was closed.

While I think "freeride parks" are great, the sad fact is similar to street skating, nothing that's built in a confined approved area will serve as a substitute for going out and riding 'natural terrain', be it the [sub]urban landscape or some local mountain trails with stunts. In my own experience it loses a bit of the soul (quick, someone get a 16mm camera and film me saying that!) as it's homogenized, marginalized, and made acceptable to compromise . So while their may be a reduction in building if something legit is created, it's not going to end it entirely. There will also be forbidden fruit, new lines to poach, some hill that just works better, or trail that could flow better.

I try to be pragmatic about the whole thing. I'm new to DH/FR but have been riding since 92, and I see the point of people who suggest involvement to create legit riding areas. I also see more than a decade of history in other sports as well as this one, that show that parks will come and go (as soon as someone can't afford the insurance, usually) and nonsanctioned trails will continue to spring up, be used, get popular, and get closed down, and perhaps reopened.

Regardless, what mountain biking clearly needs is a "DON'T SNITCH" DVD a la the Baltimore gangs, except the snitches will be easily recognizable by virtue of day-glo lycra. ;)
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,198
4,986
Sleazattle
Not sure if recent events has prompted this but here is the latest CAMBC mass email.

As most of us realize, there has been an ever growing
interest in developing a legal free-ride/dirt jump
"terrain park" in the C'ville area for some time now.
Thanks to this interest CAMBC has been in contact with
the County Parks & Rec Dept. about building a "terrain
park" at Walnut Creek where we currently have a great
mountain biking trail system as we all know. This past
spring we approached the County about the possibility
of building a “terrain park” but due to CAMBC's lack
of eager resources, we have let it fall to the
wayside. With local interest picking back up, we have
contacted the County again about this idea and they
are still very interested in moving forward with such
a project. However, they would like for CAMBC to put
together a list of current free-ride/dirt jump parks
and the gov't POC (county or city) that has built and
currently manages such a park.

CAMBC is asking the MTB community for assistance
(members or non-members) in order to gather known
legal free-ride/dirt jump parks, preferably in VA, so
we can put together a list of these parks and their
gov't POC so Parks & Rec. can begin pursuing the
project on their end.

The C'ville MTB community has a great opportunity here
to expand trail access and create an awesome facility
catered to free-riders and dirt jumpers!

Those with input, you are welcome to email me
directly!

Thanks,

Ted Gayle
CAMBC Board Member
More info at www.cambc.org.
 

ridetoofast

scarred, broken and drunk
Mar 31, 2002
2,093
0
crashing at a trail near you...
To whom it may concern,
I belong to the EVMA (Eastern Virginia Mountainbike Association) and frequent a message board called Ridemonkey. Through that message board it has come to my attention that you are in the process of collecting information on other VA area 'terrain parks'. As of 11/5 and 11/6 we will be commencing construction at a local trail in Williamsburg. The club president, Kirk Moore, I'm sure would be glad to fill you in on the process that he pursued. Perhaps our two clubs could work out some type of reciprocal arrangement with work days??? I realize this is short notice but it might be worth pursuing.


I just sent this email to them...
 

rideLIKEjehu

Monkey
Jul 11, 2001
279
0
495/66/50/29
Westy said:
Not sure if recent events has prompted this but here is the latest CAMBC mass email.
More info at www.cambc.org.
we're in a similar situation up here in NOVA with the 495 jumps... i started this thread in the DH forum:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133342

whole buncha information about public dirt-jump parks/'terrain parks' in there.

(this is corey, just posting under this account temporarily)
 
May 24, 2005
333
0
Baltimore
I missed the last Rocket show by two weeks, and I wasn't into Jehu back when they were doing their thing. And last year I missed the Hot Snakes show because none of my loser friends are into that sort of music....actually they all hate my musical tastes. And I missed the DC Alkaline Trio show. Damnit I miss a lot of shows. I need some friends with some decent tastes in rock.
 

F5000sl

Chimp
Nov 18, 2003
34
0
Richmond
I just want to say that it doesn't matter what "group" of riders you or anyone belongs too, many folks in the world of parks and park users do not like cyclists using trails, period.
XC has been around for 30+ years with this fight and in winning in some places, while loosing in others.
Many folks would love to see TTF's built in a lot of places, but like I just mentioned it's hard just to keep normal trails open because they are seen as dangerous and lawsuits waiting to happen.

If you can, certainly work with local clubs, that is the first in.
Get to know land mgr's too, from there you can only hope people may pull the heads out of their @$$e$ after a while.

Sadly, even Land Mgr's that would like to help are afraid or should be afraid to loose their jobs when trying to help the mtbikers because local governments are that uptight about "Extreme Sports".

EVMA just built a mild TTF in a park and hopefully that turns out well for them. Maybe from there it may plant a positive seed among other parks.

Also, checkout Trianglemtb.com, they have a few parks listed in NC that are using some cool TTF's w/out issue. Maybe someone there can give some advice to those that want to organize here in Va.

Anyhow, the long and short of it is that we are all in the same boat. Land is a rare resource for cycling and there are plenty of folks against us. It's definitely an uphill battle and building illegel stuff just gets trails close for everyone. This is what happened in Dogwood Dell in Richmond. Someone built some sweet TTF's but the park mgr and surrounding homes were not impressed. The TTF's came down quickly and then Isabel soon followed. The park mgr has refused to let any old trails reopen since.
 

hurlykid6900

Chimp
Oct 23, 2005
94
0
C-Ville Rep yo
Its in the middle of C-ville, there some stuff there still, a nice ladder drop and some dj, and a kicker. The stuffs hard to find though. Give me a pm and me and bearmoutin will show you around.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,198
4,986
Sleazattle
Latest rumours, which I have been unable to confirm, is that Albemarle county is willing to fund a DJ and freeride area at Walnut Creek. Those of you who want such a thing in the area need to stand up and do some work to get this done. If few people step up the opportunity will most likely pass.