O.K, Kids, What Mods Can Be Done To Improve ‘19 Fox 36?
- Thread starter rideit
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Just ordered the Luftkappe, putting it on Thursday...
Hope you got the installation tool, too.
yes.
OK, So, the Luftkappe is a very marked improvement. Did one ride with one token, and just did a ride without any. Gonna be tits for Moab. Money well spent.
The problem with this, the overwhelming, MAJOR problem with this that is essentially a giant sweaty dickslap in the face of every customer, is that what we're discussing already IS supposed to be a high-performing/ideally performing piece of equipment. And still coming riddled with deficiencies that are found on units that cost only a fraction as much.
The cost of manufacturing the high end unit is not that much higher than the base level, so the margins on them are nuts compared to the low end/entry level units. The fact that they don't have a better manufacturing yield for things like bushings at those pricepoints is a fucking insult.
So if these things are coming with problems like that (especially after 10 or so sequential years of "evolution"), it should be pretty much thrown through the window of the manufacturer followed by a flaming bag of shit for what the things cost.
But what’s exactly wrong with a stock 2019 Fox 36? The 38 and new 40 are very impressive, in my opinion. @Kanye West The 40 might even please your level performance entitlement but probably not on price.
If you ride a lot then the bushings can ovalise, I think. Resizing the bushings is very easy and not time consuming. I personally think it makes a big difference. I’m surprised Farkin doesn’t like to do it.
I like tools and I don’t like arm pump. These bushing sizing tools are nice and help me keep my forks running sweet.
Top is the Ohlins one and bottom is the Fox one. The race inserts are slightly bigger and make for a really supple fork.
If you ride a lot then the bushings can ovalise, I think. Resizing the bushings is very easy and not time consuming. I personally think it makes a big difference. I’m surprised Farkin doesn’t like to do it.
I like tools and I don’t like arm pump. These bushing sizing tools are nice and help me keep my forks running sweet.
Top is the Ohlins one and bottom is the Fox one. The race inserts are slightly bigger and make for a really supple fork.
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That guy does some cool mods and fixes! Thanks for the link.Burnish/size the bushings would be one thing to consider.
Fork Bushing Tools | Blue Liquid Labs
blueliquidlabs.com
I'm happy with mine stock, though 170mm travel helps plushness.
I run no tokens and make sure there's just enough lube in the air chambers, not so much as to affect volume. I burp the seals every week or so and do a chassis service a few times a summer.
My only complaints are fore/aft flex and steerer creak.
I run no tokens and make sure there's just enough lube in the air chambers, not so much as to affect volume. I burp the seals every week or so and do a chassis service a few times a summer.
My only complaints are fore/aft flex and steerer creak.
It's not that I don't *like* it or think it doesn't work, I just think that for the average person with the average home shop setup, which you clearly are not, there are cheaper and easier ways to go finding improvements. That is an absurdly nice setup to just have kicking around by the way.
So maybe you can enlighten me.
When your bushings ovalize, you are pushing a larger mandrel through them and they are then oversized.
So instead of just being oversized fore and aft they are now oversized to the left and right.
How is this better?
Am I missing something?
[
I didn’t mean to recommend anything to anyone. I was just wondering what performance is worth to people. I’m on one extreme end and I’m aware of that.
Ah ok! I agree that it’s completely absurd! So is this vacuum bleeder but oh well.... I enjoy playing with bikes.
I didn’t mean to recommend anything to anyone. I was just wondering what performance is worth to people. I’m on one extreme end and I’m aware of that.
Congratulations on your crushing, decisive victory in home workshop dick-swinging, that is bad ass.
Stick n slip.
It’s just my observations over the years. I’m not an expert so I couldn’t tell you more than you can get good results resizing the bushings 5-7 times before needing to change them. It’s very easy to tell if you have too much play and have gone too far. Also, thicker oils like Fox gold are designed for looser bushings and thinner oils for tighter.
Tight bushings have a longer life at the expense of friction and looser bushings have a shorter lifespan but lower friction. The oversized insert is only used for race forks.
If any of you guys are riding around Chatel, Morgins or Champery next summer then buy me a beer and I’ll push my precision dildo into your fork and you decide for yourself.
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More accommodating of small angular misalignments and off-axis thrust loads, most commonly when hitting a tall edge and causing a bit of bending, or a slapdown landing (and causing some bending the opposite direction).
The tooling that buckow has is certainly out of the norm, but the level of performance that he's expecting from his equipment is not what I think should be out of the norm. You might say expecting that would be "entitled", and to that I say that accepting anything less is settling for mediocrity. At best. At worst, it's bending over and biting the pillow as you hand your money to a giant horny bike-industry lizard to perform some "outstanding customer service".
FYI what I run now is a new 38 and a 2021 DHX2. Both are impressive. What is NOT impressive is how long the bike industry has taken to put out products like these that can deal with varied high energy inputs in a comfortable and effective manner. Like I said, re-inventing their shit every year should have yielded a benchmark like this long ago.
It yielded some nice pocket lining for the industry though, you can't buy SUVs with benchmarks...
This place does - https://www.fluid-focus.com/mountain-bike-suspension. There's probably more.
Vorsprung definitely have them, I'd be surprised if anyone who advertises themselves as a suspension service place didn't have them to be honest, you just have to be willing to ask on the phone about the precision dildo service.
I'll throw out the obvious un-mod .... service your darn fork.
Even just a quick lower service is always an improvement. There is nothing like a freshly cleaned and lubed fork.
Even just a quick lower service is always an improvement. There is nothing like a freshly cleaned and lubed fork.
I can't say I've ever felt any difference, both legs had oil bath, I only change it once to twice a season, but the oil is still there (didn't leak out or get all absorbed).
Go from a dried mud encrusted fork to one thats had the stancions wiped clean then, take a paper towel folded over 4x to make a strip put it over a bottle of bath oil, turn it briefly upside down to damp the paper towel use it to shammy your stancion. Then wipe it clean with another rag.
You only want a quarter sized portion of the paper towel to be wetted with oil, a little bit goes a long way.
I swear it makes a difference other than a mental one.
The scraper portion of the seal glides along much more happily this way...
Am I the only one who does this here?
I hardly ever wash my bike just brush off and lube the drivetrain ever ride and clean the stancions depending on conditions. Ie mud every ride.. dust a 5+ rides
Dave Johnson of smart performance Inc enlightened me. He has a couple page long paper on seal life which on an offroad motorcycle with inverted forks is typically not a long life. Cleaning and oiling the stancions is one of the best things you can do to make the seals last. It even mentions that seals don't appreciate hard water spots after washing and the appropriate treatment is the wax on wax off with oil as above.
You only want a quarter sized portion of the paper towel to be wetted with oil, a little bit goes a long way.
I swear it makes a difference other than a mental one.
The scraper portion of the seal glides along much more happily this way...
Am I the only one who does this here?
I hardly ever wash my bike just brush off and lube the drivetrain ever ride and clean the stancions depending on conditions. Ie mud every ride.. dust a 5+ rides
Dave Johnson of smart performance Inc enlightened me. He has a couple page long paper on seal life which on an offroad motorcycle with inverted forks is typically not a long life. Cleaning and oiling the stancions is one of the best things you can do to make the seals last. It even mentions that seals don't appreciate hard water spots after washing and the appropriate treatment is the wax on wax off with oil as above.
I don't massage my stanchions yet but I do clean them after each ride. I also have a soft toothbrush for removing some dust from the dust wipers
I just use Pedro's bike lust on my stanchions, shock, and dropper. Spray a little on and wipe off with a rag. It keeps them clean and moving free, and is easy to do.
I clean the stanchions after ever ride and store my bikes upside down to keep the seals/foam rings lubed.
Also, when it feels like it's getting close to time for a lowers service but I'm feeling lazy I use this stuff -
us.wplbike.com
ForkBoost Lubricant
Buy ForkBoost from Whistler Performance Lubricants. ForkBoost can be applied externally to the stanchion of your fork as well as to the dust seal. This will keep the delicate seal supple and prevent it from drying...
us.wplbike.com
An oil change on a Fox 36 is super noticeable on brake bumps. For me it worked out that I needed to do it about every 300 miles.
I usually just flipped the bike vertical for a few seconds on my way out of the garage, but I've started to lube the seals every ride like @englertracing described. The force required to initiate travel is remarkably different once they get just a little bit of oil on them.
I usually just flipped the bike vertical for a few seconds on my way out of the garage, but I've started to lube the seals every ride like @englertracing described. The force required to initiate travel is remarkably different once they get just a little bit of oil on them.
Have any fork manufacturers tried using the rise in pressure of the lowers to pump oil to the bushings? Fox's air channels on the 38 seem pretty close to that.
I can't help but think that everyone using the bushing burnishing tool may be just "kicking the can down the road". You are attempting to address the symptom of bind by opening up the bushing ID. What's to say the issue is not coaxiality of bushing pairs in a leg? I'm not even gonna touch all the other possibilities of lowers or leg parallelism issues.
I use that stuff when I feel the bike's been sitting there for a while. I dunno...seems to work, I think.Also, when it feels like it's getting close to time for a lowers service but I'm feeling lazy I use this stuff -
ForkBoost Lubricant
Buy ForkBoost from Whistler Performance Lubricants. ForkBoost can be applied externally to the stanchion of your fork as well as to the dust seal. This will keep the delicate seal supple and prevent it from drying...
Most lower assembly bushing installs are tooled for concentricity. But...to a nominally perfect hub length.
The overshadowing issue with parallelism is the axle layout on most forks. The layout on the new 38 solves that, and it is very noticeable.
You are correct though - there is little point in performing a ream if the whole system is out of parallel.
Yeah clamping a hub of uncontrolled width is yet another layer of issue. Stepped axle systems FTW - no doubt.
Looking at the tool most people are getting a hold of - the shaft, that the sizing head goes on, is not even the nominal stanchion diameter?
Looking at the tool most people are getting a hold of - the shaft, that the sizing head goes on, is not even the nominal stanchion diameter?
bushings are a wear item, some people are willing to trade longevity for performance, but yes there are other issues aside from this it may not solve.
that's a feature