[Happymtb.fr]

@Balgaroth
Check here, they have 6x8x0.10 and even 6x8x0.15

SHIMS GABEL/STOSSDÄMPFER, 1 Satz (10 Stck)

Hochwertige Shims, gefertigt aus Sandvik 20C. VPE = 10 Stück Passend für:

www.s-tech-racing.de

Flattening the piston is not the best idea as @Kanye West mentioned earlier

 

[Balgaroth]

@Balgaroth
Check here, they have 6x8x0.10 and even 6x8x0.15

SHIMS GABEL/STOSSDÄMPFER, 1 Satz (10 Stck)

Hochwertige Shims, gefertigt aus Sandvik 20C. VPE = 10 Stück Passend für:

www.s-tech-racing.de

Flattening the piston is not the best idea as @Kanye West mentioned earlier

Thanks for the tip, I get my shims from another place where I can by them individually. At the moment I have some 9x0.1 so I will try this first and see how it is, I might get some 8mm O.D. when I will order more shims. One reason why I'd consider sanding the piston face is because the grip damper doesn't have a LsC adjuster and no built in bleed. LsC in that damper is controlled by stack float/preload, so all the adjustment before you start actually dishing the shims is basically bleed obtained by stack float. I don't see why not having a perfect seal is a problem when you adjust LsC by stack float, I get it when you adjust LsC with orifice and needle as you want to properly separate the 2 circuits but in the Grip case there is only one circuit and float/preload adjustment. If someone can explain how seal is important in a float scenario I am all ears.
An advantage of flattening the piston's face is that it will free up some range of adjustment to add some shims in the stack, while still having some float adjustment possible. The compression hat doesn't have infinite range of travel, it seems to be limited by a slot on the compression assembly shaft. As such I suspect that when filling the gap you reduce you range by a lot (from the close side) and if you add some shims on top of the stack you reduce it even more (from the open side). Maybe have the lip lathed to 0.1mm would the the happy middle ?

 

[englertracing]

Have you got any free bleed?

 

[englertracing]

Have you got any free bleed?

Tbh I'd skip playing with the grip 1 base valve and install a grip 2 base valve into your grip 1 cartridge

 

[Balgaroth]

Tbh I'd skip playing with the grip 1 base valve and install a grip 2 base valve into your grip 1 cartridge

For this sort of price I'd buy a Fast SC4 cartridge and hope it would feel like a Fox fork anymore. Alternatively I'd rather buy a Yari and keep playing too. Buy a cartridge is definitely the way to to if you want fast and easy results, I am looking to learn and understand suspension better so putting my hands in it, trial and error to test my theories based on my current understanding seems more adequate.

 

[englertracing]

For this sort of price I'd buy a Fast SC4 cartridge and hope it would feel like a Fox fork anymore. Alternatively I'd rather buy a Yari and keep playing too. Buy a cartridge is definitely the way to to if you want fast and easy results, I am looking to learn and understand suspension better so putting my hands in it, trial and error to test my theories based on my current understanding seems more adequate.

No no.
Not the cartridge
The base valve only.

 

[Balgaroth]

No no.
Not the cartridge
The base valve only.

Good idea, but I just had a look and only place where I could find it in EU is the French distributor which is selling the assembly for 250€. If it was 100$ like I saw on some american website it would be a nice and cheap upgrade. But I won't drop this kind of money in a Fox fork.

 

[englertracing]

Good idea, but I just had a look and only place where I could find it in EU is the French distributor which is selling the assembly for 250€. If it was 100$ like I saw on some american website it would be a nice and cheap upgrade. But I won't drop this kind of money in a Fox fork.

Thats terrible.

 

[bikelurker]

First time posting, loooong time lurker (i'm Talking 26" era mtb) I always loved both tech threads and humor here, its just that i never had interesting stuff to add I suppose.

I will preface this post by saying that grip damper sucks ballzz and fox 36 spring side is not much better than that in stock form. Yeah I say that. Or maybe my riding style is so removed from the rest of the population that am I the one that sucks, fast or stylish I'm not.

So, a while ago I Luftkapped my 140mm fork (hardtail rider here, 83kg, 85psi, LSR 4 clicks from closed, no tokens) It doesnt really improved things much. What I always found with this fork (and some others that I own over the years, I think things start going south 10 years ago or so) is the lack of support, and the brutal way it springs back from the end of the travel, even with LSR almost closed and the choke that this produced in the midvalve... There is nothing between the bars and the wheel when you turn, even in flat concrete... It spikes badly in chatter, it dives under braking, ruts and big impacts are just plain scary...

Based on the info posted in this thread, many hours surfing fox docs and drawnings and reading many things suspension related, I decided that it will be better to spend some money on tools, rather than new forks or upgrades.

I bought an spare second hand cartridge a while ago, Cheap, so I can play with it whitout bringing the bike to an unrideabru state. So, I add a 8x6x0.3 between the piston and face shim in the base valve (I used the clamping shim from the HSR of the spare cartridge) and then cut some bleed in the face shim(this takes some back and forth, you can really feel strocking the damper by hand when it is too small of a hole) with the needle thread all the way in (there is a little bit of preload still in the shim stack) the fork now feels amazing! First ride I thought that I went too far(I made no other valving modifications) and only use like 110mm of travel, even thru some chunky sections. Second ride and i get to bottom the sucker out, for the first time i should say, meaning that the way the fork behaves now allow me to ride as hard as I can and I can charge hard (so hard infact that I almost bottom out my face to the stem) and get full travel even if it is setup the firmest ever . The fork feels firm, works high in its travel, even when braking, but it opens beautifully when you hit stuff hard. It is maybe a little bit jarring if you are not going for it but I like it that way better than before..

 

[bikelurker]

One "unspected" result of the mod is that almost straight away i went to 10clicks from closed in LSR . The fork is now that much composed and i am really enjoying the improved grip the fast rebound offers. At this point I did not mod shim stacks but I have plans for some tappered stacks and i will also play with diferent bleed port sizes

 

[bikelurker]

The experiment was not very scientific really,while having the fork open I also ended up deleting the topout bumper and spacer from the negative chamber, for moar big volume awesomeness. I think this had some minor impact, i keept PSI the same, it feels good now, so I am happy.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH GUYS!!! I almost quit mtbiking, thinking that I forgot how to ride, it was not me but a shitty OEM fork. Some shimzz and oily hands latter and Im having great fun.

Long live ridemonkey downhill & freeride forum!

 

[StiHacka]

Nice. What damper did you mod, the 1st gen Grip? And yes, the Luftkappe feels much nicer than the stock seal head.

 

[bikelurker]

Yes the grip 1 damper, v.2 version (2019 onwards?) (the one that come stock without the spring between the compresion shim stack and the hat that preloads it) this goes up to 180mm travel

The one from the "stock" fork (its more of a franken at this point) was 160mm max travel with the spring still in place, wich I supose adds to the shittyness of the experience. Its a performance series fork

 

[bikelurker]

The other reason that I bought that second damper is that, as far as im concerned, just by swaping the compresion assy, it can be used in a fox38. I happend to own a take off one... Equipped with fit4 damper... Wich is nonsense

What were the lizards thinking while releasing to the market 180mm travel XC forks?

 

[bikelurker]

(Good) people is slow and keep forgeting things, like shipping what are paid to ship for, but they are finally here: (it takes 2 months)

> 8x6x0.10
> 10x6x0.10
> 12x6x0.10
> 13x6x0.10
> 14x6x0.10
> 16x6x0.10

So now I can put the spare cartridge back and start experimenting with different bled ports and piramid stacks, even for rebound

 

[englertracing]

I doubt youll find a noticeable difference between a pyramid and straight stack.
youll need to change shim quantity, or try a 2 stage stack.

 

[bikelurker]

I doubt youll find a noticeable difference between a pyramid and straight stack.
youll need to change shim quantity, or try a 2 stage stack.

Ok! The thing is that I need to keep the stock shims as spares, to use them as face shims and play with diferent bleed port sizes, they are not easy to source over here in that size (well, shoping for shims of any size kind of become my particular vía crucis, wich seems appropriate as Semana Santa comes to an end)

 

[englertracing]

Ok! The thing is that I need to keep the stock shims as spares, to use them as face shims and play with diferent bleed port sizes, they are not easy to source over here in that size (well, shoping for shims of any size kind of become my particular vía crucis, wich seems appropriate as Semana Santa comes to an end)

For sure, I'm just trying to save you some time with going back to back straight to tapered, might not notice it at all.

 

[nastynick]

Great thread! I laughed, I learned, Im now covered in oil. Jk I'm thinking about just doing the grip to base valve for on the fly adjustability sake. I found a few different part numbers. Can anyone share what the best process is for ordering the correct parts? I'm upgrading a 36 performance, specifically the E-Tuned version from a 2023 model year bike. Does the vvc base valve work on all grip dampers? If not does this look the the correct assembly for my fork?

820-05-664-KIT

FOX Topcap Assembly - 2021 36 Grip2 VVC TPP Damper,

Wonder why the FOX Top Caps is a mountain biker favorite in the Adjuster Knob & External Hardware collection? Part #820-05-664-KIT. Top Caps for Fox suspension fork service and repair.

www.worldwidecyclery.com

Fox Racing Shox GRIP2 VVC HSC / LSC Topcap Interface Parts 2021+

Replace your lost, broken, or worn out topcap interface with OEM parts. Compatible with 2021+ Fox 34, 36, and 38 forks.

www.fanatikbike.com

 

[englertracing]

if you put the vvc version on you will have literally no compression damping

 

[kidwoo]

if you put the vvc version on you will have literally no compression damping

sounds plush™

 

[Andeh]

No idea how accurate, but the local suspension guy said that the E-tuned version of GRIP2 VVC is even worse. In his words "the HSC lets it flow like water". He said apparently it's tuned for (I shit you not) overweight people who ride their ebike sitting down but want the fork to still feel plush.

He said the one type of rider it's good for is really light weight (~120 lbs) on regular bikes.

 

[djjohnr]

Find an RC2 damper. I'm running one in a current gen chassis and it's quite nice.

 

[englertracing]

No idea how accurate, but the local suspension guy said that the E-tuned version of GRIP2 VVC is even worse. In his words "the HSC lets it flow like water". He said apparently it's tuned for (I shit you not) overweight people who ride their ebike sitting down but want the fork to still feel plush.

He said the one type of rider it's good for is really light weight (~120 lbs) on regular bikes.

Its true.
The e bike tune has a crossover
It's baffling that that made it out the door. It's more like little kid on dad's bike tune...
You would think it would be more robust.....

 

[englertracing]

Find an RC2 damper. I'm running one in a current gen chassis and it's quite nice.

Hens teeth now.
And also no simple way to put one in a 38

 

[Westy]

Its true.
The e bike tune has a crossover
It's baffling that that made it out the door. It's more like little kid on dad's bike tune...
You would think it would be more robust.....

Have you met the average e-biker?

Marketing brilliance if you ask me.

 

[djjohnr]

Hens teeth now.
And also no simple way to put one in a 38

True, but he's got a 36. You can usually find used 36 RC2s for fairly cheap and steal/rebuild the damper. It would probably cost you something similar to buying a new Grip2 damper.

There is a new Grip2 damper tune for '24 on the 38 that is supposedly more supportive. Fluid Focus posted a dyno plot against their tune awhile back, of course it's missing the y-cordinate key.

 

[englertracing]

Have you met the average e-biker?

Marketing brilliance if you ask me.

You would think with their weight plus the weight of the e bike
Plus the fact that they stuck every volume spacer they could fit in the air chamber so that "it's plush yet supportive " that they could use a bit of lsc

 

[Jm_]

Fox hates riders.

 

[nastynick]

Haha Fox hates riders. And there's two types of riders: riders who hate Fox and kashima fan boys.

I've managed to avoid Fox on all my bikes since 2016. But the party is over.

I'm happy to faff with shim tuning. Guess I got to get rid of the E-Tuned stack. But it'd be nice to have LSC bleed adjustability. Also want to spend as little as possible on this fork that will end up creaking worse than my knees in no time.

 

[nastynick]

Can anyone tell me what's the right base valve?

 

[englertracing]

You want gen 1 grip 2 base valve non vvc and a crossover shim IMO

 

[Westy]

You

You would think with their weight plus the weight of the e bike
Plus the fact that they stuck every volume spacer they could fit in the air chamber so that "it's plush yet supportive " that they could use a bit of lsc

You Literally described an e-biker I talked to trailside who asked for help with his suspension. He maxed out rebound, had compression wide open and complained about harshness.

 

[iRider]

You

You Literally described an e-biker I talked to trailside ...

 

[nastynick]

You want gen 1 grip 2 base valve non vvc and a crossover shim IMO

Thank you! On the Fox site looks like I need:
820-05-415-KIT 2019 36 Grip2 Damper Topcap Assy (The parts drawing have the same description for the 2020 36 grip2 damper)

Problem is it's not available anywhere online. So I just called Fox, they said it's not available through them and they recommend the current top cap to bring it into current spec lol.

 

[Jm_]

and they recommend the current top cap to bring it into current spec lol.

Of course they do, because they hate riders. They have to come up with the newest acronym and then totally screw it up, like VVC that has no compression damping. They are in competition with RS who says “rapid recovery” when it quite literally works opposite of that. This is the way of things.

 

[Pneuma]

Here is a guy selling his whole non-VVC compression grip2

https://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/3779851/

 

[Flo33]

Thank you! On the Fox site looks like I need:
820-05-415-KIT 2019 36 Grip2 Damper Topcap Assy (The parts drawing have the same description for the 2020 36 grip2 damper)

Problem is it's not available anywhere online. So I just called Fox, they said it's not available through them and they recommend the current top cap to bring it into current spec lol.

That's the correct kit. 2019 and 2020 was the same damper. 2021 saw the introduction of Comp VVC Grip2.
If you end up with a Mk.1 Grip2 search for @englertracing 's post about the crossover shim. Or maybe he can repost that info here. From memory it was a 0.1x10 mm shim in between the preload part of the stack. Otherwise you get either jackhammer amount of compression damping or hardly any.

 

[nastynick]

Here is a guy selling his whole non-VVC compression grip2

https://m.pinkbike.com/buysell/3779851/

Thanks. Probably not a bad price. But I'm just not a fox guy and I don't want to go chasing something I'll never be truly happy with.

 

[nastynick]

That's the correct kit. 2019 and 2020 was the same damper. 2021 saw the introduction of Comp VVC Grip2.
If you end up with a Mk.1 Grip2 search for @englertracing 's post about the crossover shim. Or maybe he can repost that info here. From memory it was a 0.1x10 mm shim in between the preload part of the stack. Otherwise you get either jackhammer amount of compression damping or hardly any.

Thanks for those details. I'll definitely keep that in mind. For now I think I need to do the GRIP mods discussed in this thread to eliminate the stack preload (via a small diameter shim between the piston and face shim in the base valve) and file some bleed in the face shim.