[Silver]

I like how establishing a legitimate Afgani government and military "MIGHT help ward off an attack"... as if it's this completely nebulous concept.

You're skipping over a lot there. Basically, you're saying, "I don't understand how you can think that when the easter bunny comes, he's not going to be leaving chocolate!"

I'd agree that chocolate is probably an outcome if the Easter Bunny strolls up to your house. That's not where the disagreement is...

 

[sanjuro]

It kills me to do this, but I am going to make some excuses for Obama.

All the major problems were inherited from Bush. The only "problem" which Obama created was the Public Option.

Let's stay in reality here: if the other guy won, what would have McCain done? First of all, we better hope job one was to put Palin in a box.

He would have had some great speeches about winning in Iraq and need to win in Afghanistan, but he would have done the same thing Obama did.

Would McCain have not have done his own version of the Stimulus Bill? Of course, he did.

Maybe I'm more of loyalist than the Palindiots. I think his biggest failure is not changing Don't Ask Don't Tell.

 

[jonKranked]

All the major problems were inherited from Bush.

Playing clean-up on an International scale is not an easy job.

If McCain had won, do you think we'd have invaded Iran by now?

 

[Pesqueeb]

Playing clean-up on an International scale is not an easy job.

If McCain had won, do you think we'd have invaded Iran by now?

Yes. And we probably would have glassed North Korea at this point also.

 

[jonKranked]

Yes. And we probably would have glassed North Korea at this point also.

Who could build a glass dome that big though?

 

[SDH]

I think his decision was not a political decison but a logical one. There is much more at stake in Afganistan than just getting Bin Ladin. First off if we just left, the Taliban would gain more ground, this would not be good and I do not think any of us will dispute this fact. If we let them regain and get another strong foot hold, they will be smarter via lessons learned and thus stronger. If we did go back, it would take double or triple the resources to get where we are now. If we have them on theire heels, now is the time for more pressure.

Also consider the bigger picture. Taliban gains in power if we leave. It is no secret the Taliban also seeks to destablize Pakistan. A destablized Pakistan could have serious ramifications such as:
1) a destablized nuclear power is not good for anyone
2) destablization increases the risk of nukes getting on the black market either the bombs themselves or the materials needed for a bomb
3) India and Pakistan hate each other. What do you think India (another nuke power) would do if Paki became unstable and hostile (It is hostile today to India)
4) where do you think a bunch of our stuff/goods is made........Pakistan, you run the risk of disrupting the textile markets
5) If the Paki/India decide to slug it out you think they would not use the nuke option?
6) What would nukes do to our world markets especially in our fragile finance state?
7) Ya think we have a warming effect now environmentally, light off a few of those Paki-Indian roman candles and we will see global warming!

The cost to try to mitigate these risks? 30,000+ troops

Even though I think the situation is FUBAR, I think the 30K is the lesser of the two evils

 

[DamienC]

Who could build a glass dome that big though?

The EPA.

 

[jonKranked]

In regards to point 4, Pakistan doesn't make up a large enough portion of our imports that there would be any major ramifications. Any production capacity lost there could easily be made up in other production facilities in other second world countries we exploit for cheap labor.

 

[Dartman]

Well stated SDH.

And...

8) If Pakistan nuked Inda who would we call for tech support?

 

[Pesqueeb]

7) Ya think we have a warming effect now environmentally, light off a few of those Paki-Indian roman candles and we will see global warming!

Actually, nuclear winter might correct or current warming trend, so it wont be all bad.

 

[3D.]

Déjà vu

The surge of 30,000 U.S. troops into Afghanistan could be accompanied by a surge of up to 56,000 contractors, vastly expanding the presence of personnel from the U.S. private sector in a war zone, according to a study by the Congressional Research Service.
-
That would bring the number of contractors in the country to anywhere from 130,000 to 160,000.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/15/AR2009121504850.html